"I respect myself too much to stay in Canada": Why so many new immigrants are leaving

[bas12]

Well, every place has problems. When I moved to suburbs of Toronto 5 years ago, rent for a small condo there was about the same as in some neighborhoods of Paris proper, and these were not the worst neighborhoods (2000CAD vs 1300EUR). In a nice suburb or Paris I was paying 750EUR for a small place. And Toronto and its suburbs are definitely not Paris, even if they have some nice things going for them. I wouldn't really compare any of Toronto museums to major museums in European capitals.

In Paris there are other issues: french immigration system is even more dysfunctional, pay in my line of work is even lower than in Canada, plus language and cultural barriers that would take some years to overcome. Though if I knew how much grief they were going to give me with my citizenship application, maybe I would have chosen France.

London can be great if you're young and have a lot of money, but you'd have to deal with classism, it is super expensive, and the pay is not much higher than Canada, at least in Tech. Though there are more opportunities, I guess.

Any place in the US has general US issues as well as some unique local problems. It is not always clear if moving from Canada to US is a good deal, or the right move for a particular person or family. Many people end up disappointed and return. The same is true for people moving from US to Canada as well

 

[Dr. Walden]

This is why we love Canada

 

[5Kent]

Fascinating discussion. I genuinely do not understand why a requirement to re-train or "prove" one's credentials from a foreign country is controversial. I arrived in Canada after a long career in higher education in a developing country. I would never want individuals trained or educated in that country (and this includes tens of thousands of Indian students who got medical degrees there because they were cheap and easy to get) to be allowed anywhere near the healthcare sector in Canada - without re-training and proving that they actually understand what modern medicine is all about.

Same is true about so many other professions! Working in public relations now, I am amazed at how many immigrants blame "racism" for their inability to advance in this field. In this field, your English has to be perfect. You can have an accent, you can look like you were not born in the country - but if you do not speak perfect English, there is no way for you to make it big in this field.

 

[5Kent]

I personally know a person with MSc in Biochemistry from Leeds University, but who has to work as a cleaner in Toronto.

I also know someone fluent in 4 languages, has a masters from UK, and 7+ years of professional experience in 3 developed countries who had to go to completely retrain in a college and is now doing an internship for a min wage.

My time is too valuable to struggle for so many years, so I left as soon as I could.

Your examples are too extreme. If a person with an MSc in Biochemistry from Leeds works as a cleaner in Toronto, this says more about that person, not the system.

 

[Mounat]

Fascinating discussion. I genuinely do not understand why a requirement to re-train or "prove" one's credentials from a foreign country is controversial. I arrived in Canada after a long career in higher education in a developing country. I would never want individuals trained or educated in that country (and this includes tens of thousands of Indian students who got medical degrees there because they were cheap and easy to get) to be allowed anywhere near the healthcare sector in Canada - without re-training and proving that they actually understand what modern medicine is all about.

Same is true about so many other professions! Working in public relations now, I am amazed at how many immigrants blame "racism" for their inability to advance in this field. In this field, your English has to be perfect. You can have an accent, you can look like you were not born in the country - but if you do not speak perfect English, there is no way for you to make it big in this field.

Sadly, there are certain professions were neither retraining nor ability to prove one's credentials is available. The only way to practice the same profession is to start from scratch, i.e. go back to school, perhaps even undergrad. There is some protectionism and gatekeeping by accrediting entities for economic and other reasons. There is also a genuine effort to maintain high standards, e.g. in the medical field, to ensure education and practices in other countries conform to and comply with Canadian standards.

And racism (which is not unique to any country) is not imagined but a real and damaging practice. How a person looks, the accent with which they speak and where they were born all contribute to how they are perceived and, sometimes, how they are treated.

 

[Rutherfords]

Sadly, there are certain professions were neither retraining nor ability to prove one's credentials is available. The only way to practice the same profession is to start from scratch, i.e. go back to school, perhaps even undergrad. There is some protectionism and gatekeeping by accrediting entities for economic and other reasons. There is also a genuine effort to maintain high standards, e.g. in the medical field, to ensure education and practices in other countries conform to and comply with Canadian standards.

And racism (which is not unique to any country) is not imagined but a real and damaging practice. How a person looks, the accent with which they speak and where they were born all contribute to how they are perceived and, sometimes, how they are treated.

I agree with your take here. Add to this the socio-economic inertia, where the ones who are settled here for generations play the silent politics of gatekeeping and are invested in keeping the top-club to themselves. They are happy to unload the laborious jobs(from minimum wage to tech, accounting and coding, that need that kind of core manual effort) on immigrants. They want to 'utilize' these immigrants, while not wanting to give away any real power(not if they can help it). And I'm not surprised, considering their forebears stole from the natives, they feel entitled to keep manipulating the country. This is the insidious racism that's active in the subconscious of this country.

 

[Mounat]

I agree with your take here. Add to this the socio-economic inertia, where the ones who are settled here for generations play the silent politics of gatekeeping and are invested in keeping the top-club to themselves. They are happy to unload the laborious jobs(from minimum wage to tech, accounting and coding, that need that kind of core manual effort) on immigrants. They want to 'utilize' these immigrants, while not wanting to give away any real power(not if they can help it). And I'm not surprised, considering their forebears stole from the natives, they feel entitled to keep manipulating the country. This is the insidious racism that's active in the subconscious of this country.

Sure, the oligarchy is alive and well in Canada, as it is here in the USA and across the globe. But even beyond that, xenophobia and the more common (and natural?) instinct to distrust foreigners is hardly subtle in employment, housing and other opportunities. This reminds me of a conversation I had in mid-1990s with a recently-arrived refugee from the former Yugoslavia. She admired how well I spoke English and was shocked to learn it was my third language. She went on to say that she wished one day to speak like I did. And that's when I told her she had something more valuable in Canada than well spoken English: blonde hair and blue eyes. To this day, I'm not sure to what extent she understood what I was hinting at or if she considered my statement a pick up line.

 

[juni999]

Your examples are too extreme. If a person with an MSc in Biochemistry from Leeds works as a cleaner in Toronto, this says more about that person, not the system.

cant say anything about the examples above but I know a gynecologist working as building receptionist for a couple of years - she finally had enough and moved to Ireland as a consultant gynecologist. It would be hard to argue in this case that its not a system problem but a person problem. We cannot shy away from the fact that Canada does have a problem when it comes to immigrant underemployment which is a shame given how immigrant focused the country is

 

[lila777]

Your examples are too extreme. If a person with an MSc in Biochemistry from Leeds works as a cleaner in Toronto, this says more about that person, not the system.

Nope. In the same cleaning team there were 3-4 other people with master degrees doing cleaning (all POC). I was doing an entry-level admin, and I have 3 degrees and 5+ years of marketing experience worldwide (including US and Europe).

 

[johnjkjk]

I agree with your take here. Add to this the socio-economic inertia, where the ones who are settled here for generations play the silent politics of gatekeeping and are invested in keeping the top-club to themselves. They are happy to unload the laborious jobs(from minimum wage to tech, accounting and coding, that need that kind of core manual effort) on immigrants. They want to 'utilize' these immigrants, while not wanting to give away any real power(not if they can help it). And I'm not surprised, considering their forebears stole from the natives, they feel entitled to keep manipulating the country. This is the insidious racism that's active in the subconscious of this country.

"Canadian standards"

senior foreign qualified doctors and surgeons can work at the top of their professions in the UK, Ireland and Australia and in most Caribbean nations (ie most English-speaking countries) without much hassle. In Canada, even if they pass the exam, they're considered fresh graduates. All their decades of skill and experience are worthless.

Canada is responsible for a lot of Colonial brain drain, from the developing world in particular. But those brains are being used to sweep floors.

 

[bas12]

I agree with your take here. Add to this the socio-economic inertia, where the ones who are settled here for generations play the silent politics of gatekeeping and are invested in keeping the top-club to themselves. They are happy to unload the laborious jobs(from minimum wage to tech, accounting and coding, that need that kind of core manual effort) on immigrants. They want to 'utilize' these immigrants, while not wanting to give away any real power(not if they can help it). And I'm not surprised, considering their forebears stole from the natives, they feel entitled to keep manipulating the country. This is the insidious racism that's active in the subconscious of this country.

Vote them out!!!

 

[h348400034]

Share my story here.
I moved to US after I submit Canadian Citizenship. I am a software engineers
In US

• US has more opportunities than Canada.
• House price is much cheaper
• Much lower tax rate to me, I save probably 13-15% on income tax.
• Although the medical expense is higher, but I got insurance from my employer, so I actually feel it's faster to get to a doctor. and I only need to pay a few out of the pocket.

But In Canada

• I feel safer in here.

I live near US-Canada border, I have income in US, and spent money in Canada because some prices are cheaper.

 

[Dr. Walden]

Hey gang! Came across this video on youtube and decided to revive this thread. The youtuber breaks down top 5 reasons not to move to Canada.

In short:
1. Can't make enough money
2. No Healthcare
3. Crisis in Canadian Politics
4. "Head in the sand" mentality
5. Never be able to own a home/house

This video is spot on in my opinion, my own experience, and experience every single friend and acquaintances I have.

 

[Mounat]

Hey gang! Came across this video on youtube and decided to revive this thread. The youtuber breaks down top 5 reasons not to move to Canada.

In short:
1. Can't make enough money
2. No Healthcare
3. Crisis in Canadian Politics
4. "Head in the sand" mentality
5. Never be able to own a home/house

This video is spot on in my opinion, my own experience, and experience every single friend and acquaintances I have.

It's hard to argue with some of the points made in the video though he does exaggerate somewhat. Canada does, in fact, have a high standard of living with high taxes as well. The economy is small (about the size of Texas) and the number professional jobs is probably inadequate for the number of available and qualified job seekers. Ultimately, though, Canada will always be a sought-after destination as long as turmoil exists around the world.

Even the narrator in the video said he's waiting to become a citizen. The chance of getting a Canadian passport trumps anything else if you're from India, China, Latin America, some Eastern European countries, the Middle East or many countries in Africa. Some countries are bursting at the seams with people while others are suffering wars and rapid climate change. Yet others have terrible economies and brutal competition for jobs that pay pennies an hour. The peace, stability and chance at financial stability (however low income/high taxation) that Canada provides are more than enough reasons for many to immigrate there. There's an endless supply of immigrants available to Canada. And even if 10, 30 or even 50% of them leave after they arrive in Canada, there will be many more behind them dying to get in.

 

[IPULL]

Hey gang! Came across this video on youtube and decided to revive this thread. The youtuber breaks down top 5 reasons not to move to Canada.

In short:
1. Can't make enough money
2. No Healthcare
3. Crisis in Canadian Politics
4. "Head in the sand" mentality
5. Never be able to own a home/house

This video is spot on in my opinion, my own experience, and experience every single friend and acquaintances I have.

He is so right, I am a single mom in a good job but still have to live paycheque by paycheque cuz everything is so god damn expensive.