"I respect myself too much to stay in Canada": Why so many new immigrants are leaving

[DSEuro78]

The issue I see is the salaries and levelling of them, especially in the IT sector and in roles that are 'global' rather than domestic (i.e big global companies). My peers across the border (same company, same team, same level/grade) are paid over CAD$100k a year more than I earn here in Canada. This in itself makes me wonder if I should simply up root and grab a TN-1 visa. Cost of living and inflation post-Covid is crazy and companies here in Canada are not increasing salaries to suit.

But then one would need to live in the USA.... grass ain't always greener...

 

[ishangodbole]

The issue I see is the salaries and levelling of them, especially in the IT sector and in roles that are 'global' rather than domestic (i.e big global companies). My peers across the border (same company, same team, same level/grade) are paid over CAD$100k a year more than I earn here in Canada. This in itself makes me wonder if I should simply up root and grab a TN-1 visa. Cost of living and inflation post-Covid is crazy and companies here in Canada are not increasing salaries to suit.

Irrespective of what people here think, you should always do what is best for you.

 

[rcincanada2019]

"One person's meat is another person's poison"

Just my 0.0000002 cents of opinion.

 

[johnjkjk]

Some of the comments here make sense and yet some are totally laughable! The fact that someone has Masters, Doctorates, a huge amount of work experience counts for nothing for some individuals here. If you refuse to re-train or go back down the rungs of the ladder you're seen as not playing ball....and my question is why should someone do this?!
The fact that you don't want to re-train or go back down the ladder and you're classed as NOT trying is an absolute joke!

So I was British born, British educated, degrees and vast amount of work experience....are you telling me that when I landed in Canada I would have to go back down the ladder to make it? That's an absolute joke.....I didn't come from a developing country and so I'm sorry if I feel that I deserve more or at least the same as my fellow Canadian who was born within the shores of Canada.

Also why should I spend 8 years struggling? Haven't I already struggled in the UK as a student and then as a worker? Don't make me laugh....have some empathy and don't call those who have tried hard...shirkers or people not prepared to make it MATE!

I came to Canada with top British qualifications and experience. Which were considered to be totally worthless here. I was told by official settlement agencies that I needed to start "on the shop floor" and to consider re-training as a bus driver as there was a shortage. I was told that I should be grateful to be given the opportunity to clean toilets on minimum wage and how dare I complain. They were extremely surprised that I wanted to pursue a professional career at all costs. They said I'd fail. And they were right.

The industry, research and innovation in this country are absurdly below even developing nation standards, yet I was laughed at during interviews for mentioning international experience with renowned global corporations. My British accent was openly mocked during interviews. The one interview I was successful at, with a high profile government agency, the job description mysteriously changed after the fact to accomodate another candidate who was pals with the new CEO. Further underscoring the nepotism, self employment as a consultant also failed; I was told that unless I was a member of the old boys club of graduates at a certain Canadian university, I would never be given a contract. And yes, I worked for FREE on projects that earned people millions; to gain "Canadian experience"; only to be told that it was all just a waste of time and that I would never be hired in this country, ever.

Meanwhile the Americans were desperately calling me for interviews. Declined a managerial position. "How about VP? We want you". To underscore this point, international experience is considered to be very valuable everywhere apart from Canada. And “Canadian experience” is nothing but code for someone who accepts lower labour standards, never complains, knows their (lowly) place, is forever grateful for the privilege to clean toilets and lick the boot of those who stole land from First Nations. It is put another way, mental slavery.

Canada bled me dry professionally and monetarily. However I have my reasons for living here, as I'm a second class citizen in my country of origin. Perhaps I should have moved to Australia or elsewhere where my skills would have been better valued but one can't spend one's whole life migrating and not living, so I have had to accept things as they are .

The fact is that canadian immigration is a scam. It might work for some in IT or those with pre-existing social/business networks and/or white privilege, but most direct-PR immigrants will be worse off in Canada. As to the masses of Indians and Chinese who move here; only those who have family money (enough for a downpayment) stick it out. Most are unhappy and struggling.

When I landed as a PR, the agent asked about my plans for a life in Canada. After hearing me excitedly describe a good life, she said "I'll be honest, you're not in the right place for that". Seems she was right.

Now I am certainly very happy to soon become a Canadian Citizen, at least for the security and peace of mind and democratic freedoms and nature, but given another chance, I would have moved elsewhere.

 

[Bravered]

My take on the “Canadian Experience”
requirement is that it’s a euphemism to ring-fence jobs out of reach of immigrants.

The concept that foreign work experience from countries like India, Singapore, UAE, Australia, Europe (where there is significantly more competition for good jobs) counts for zilch, and one must start at the bottom of the ladder to fit into the Canadian work culture is ludicrous.

Canada as a market is duopolistic in many sectors (Passenger Airlines, Freight Rail carriers, Telecom to name a few) and there’s an illusion of free market economy, but reality is quite different.

If the US companies put a premium on having “US Experience”, candidates can understand since the US businesses are unique in their size and scale. Irony is that US companies are willing to take a punt on candidates with foreign experience, but Canadian companies are snobbish to turn down such candidates.

No point in passing judgements, such social practices rarely change in a span of 1-3 years. However, when the Canadian immigrants (PR holders / citizens) leave for greener pastures abroad, hopefully there is less shock and awe, and more self reflection to change status quo.

 

[bas12]

Interesting observations.
For me, after a few months of a job search things were only getting better.
I haven't used any settlement services, like help with a job search you could get from a local library, as I figured that a library employee or a volunteer could not possibly give me any advice on finding jobs in my field. That seemed sort of ridiculous to think about. Sounds like I was right, judging by what others are posting here, they would just tell me to learn to drive a bus, or start cleaning houses.

I didn't have to start from the bottom, in fact I am not sure I would get the same opportunities elsewhere. Big part of this is luck, I think. Another thing was that I already decided to go for a career change, and was open to try a wide range of new things. Sometimes I wonder how my life would turn out if my first employer wouldn't take me in. I like to think I would find something good either way, but who knows.

I work in Tech for multinationals. I applied everywhere, and went to lots of tech meetups in Toronto, but it so happened that I was not getting much interest from Canadian employers, despite having years of US and European experience. Which may be for the best, because I probably ended up earning quite a bit more.

I think the fact that Canada puts priority on bringing in immigrants with highest credentials is somewhat misleading. It makes us think that we may be in demand here. However, the country has a small population, and limited opportunities, especially for the highest qualified professionals who could apply themselves better elsewhere. For some more esoteric narrow fields it is fairly obvious that if there are 1 or 2 open positions in the whole country that you are interested in, maybe chances are not that good that you'd get it. For others maybe it is not so clear, so they learn the hard way.
Though I've been hoping that all this new blood could bring in more entrepreneurship and create more opportunities for themselves and future newcomers, so hopefully this immigration policy would eventually bring some change. Maybe in a few decades first generation immigrants will be a majority, and the old boys clubs will go into retirement and stop influencing business and hiring.

I think starting from the bottom makes sense for refugees or people who put the priority on living in Canada vs any other place. For people who have options, not sure if it makes that much sense.
I have a superstition that if you respect yourself, and don't put up with things that you find unacceptable, things start going your way, and you get lucky more often Not sure if that works for everybody. I guess there are situations in which you cannot afford self respect.

 

[yyzstudent]

I think starting from the bottom makes sense for refugees or people who put the priority on living in Canada vs any other place. For people who have options, not sure if it makes that much sense.
I have a superstition that if you respect yourself, and don't put up with things that you find unacceptable, things start going your way, and you get lucky more often Not sure if that works for everybody. I guess there are situations in which you cannot afford self respect.

One thing I had against me was age. I was close to 50 when I moved here. The other was my foreign experience. I showed I was willing and able to start over and learn so I did and people respected that. I never had to take a "survival job" in a store or whatnot. I was working in my field while a student. I showed I was willing and able to do that. Also, in my field and specifically my department, there is no school that can teach that job. Everyone starts at the bottom and learns on the job, born Canadians or immigrants with experience. There are rules, regulations, municipal by-laws, processes, etc. Now, I was just at an event related to my old college and may have been talked into teaching a module on my job in the fall. It still won't make a student eligible to do my job (there are also union rules involved) but certainly give them a greater understanding. Had the union rules not applied I would have moved up a heck of a lot faster. I had to wait until I was a PR. Still, at no point was I working in any other field than the one I had foreign experience in and also studied in Canada.

Three big reasons I did not give up (aside from being stubborn):
I love Canada. Passionately.
I love my job. Passionately. (the money is just a bonus)
There was no way I was going back.

And here's the kicker, had I had to go back I would have had to start from scratch again. It's the nature of the beast in some industries.

I just helped another person get a foot into my industry here in Canada. This person has PR and way more foreign experience than I do, to the level that he would have been my boss over there. He too is starting from scratch. I've been his boss here. He's going to move up really fast and most likely be my boss in a couple of years.

 

[yyzstudent]

I sometimes feel like that some of these older immigrants are jealous that the new immigrants do not want to struggle and can leave Canada easily for better opportunities elsewhere.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The younger generation, immigrant or not, has a tendency to want everything handed to them. A Canadian-born classmate in college here said "when we graduate we don't start at the bottom because that is beneath us". That was in second year. I was already working in the industry before 2nd year started. Needless to say, the person is not working in the industry we studied and is not the only one with that attitude who isn't.

The problem isn't just with immigrants. It's generational as well.

 

[lila777]

I personally know a person with MSc in Biochemistry from Leeds University, but who has to work as a cleaner in Toronto.

I also know someone fluent in 4 languages, has a masters from UK, and 7+ years of professional experience in 3 developed countries who had to go to completely retrain in a college and is now doing an internship for a min wage.

My time is too valuable to struggle for so many years, so I left as soon as I could.

 

[yyzstudent]

Good luck with your hatred towards this generation. You are the ultimate success story among us immigrants. I have never encountered a person who is this self centred and think they are the only example to follow.

I have zero hate for this generation as I have no reason for it. I have met and know plenty who are absolutely delightful and not the slightest bit conceited. Nor do I think my way is the only way, nor am I self-centred. The "me me me" people who think they are better than everyone else and bitter about not getting anywhere are the self-centred ones.

 

[yyzstudent]

I personally know a person with MSc in Biochemistry from Leeds University, but who has to work as a cleaner in Toronto.

I also know someone fluent in 4 languages, has a masters from UK, and 7+ years of professional experience in 3 developed countries who had to go to completely retrain in a college and is now doing an internship for a min wage.

My time is too valuable to struggle for so many years, so I left as soon as I could.

It is a sad state of affairs, anywhere, because sadly it's the same in most countries. Unless someone is headhunted into a high-level job, it's usually "start from the bottom".

It's also sad that there is a resource of people not utilized for their skills. An update in credentials may be needed in some jobs, but they shouldn't have to be set in a way that people, in some cases experts in their field, fail.

You figured it out fast that this wasn't for you. Nothing wrong with that.

I couldn't respect myself if I had given up. I'm too stubborn. Sometimes (that's a lie. "Most of the times" is more accurate.) my stubbornness kicks me in the butt. This time it paid off.

 

[bombastic4ever]

It is a sad state of affairs, anywhere, because sadly it's the same in most countries. Unless someone is headhunted into a high-level job, it's usually "start from the bottom".

It's also sad that there is a resource of people not utilized for their skills. An update in credentials may be needed in some jobs, but they shouldn't have to be set in a way that people, in some cases experts in their field, fail.

You figured it out fast that this wasn't for you. Nothing wrong with that.

I couldn't respect myself if I had given up. I'm too stubborn. Sometimes (that's a lie. "Most of the times" is more accurate.) my stubbornness kicks me in the butt. This time it paid off.

Below is my personal opinion and my observation; it might be a bit harsh.

Given what I saw in Canada, I can see where this is coming from. I had faced discrimination and racism almost everywhere I turn my face (Immigrant, minority, with a disability). Personally, I do not think anything will change in the near future, and the amount of "Reversed immigration" that is taking place is very very concerning. Many of whom I know left Canada the soonest as they could. They believe that safety is an issue, while renovation and evacuation are taking place, and try to convince you that we have a "universal health care system", in which you need to wait 24-48 hours at the hospital's ER is normal, is beyond them to tolerate and call Canada "home"; most were concerned about raising their own kids as well.

I really hope Canada addresses these issues before the immigration scheme fails to attract REAL IMMIGRANTS (not students from South Asia who mostly are coming as students, with the intention to overstay and work, in massive numbers, causing a reduction in minimum wages, increased cost of living, increased rents, and worst, they bring their issues with them...Just think about how Walmart, KFC, Mcdonalds, and similar organizations hire and operate frequently, try to fit in if you're not from South Asia).

I have nothing but respect for every individual, but if Canada doesn't address these issues, maybe one day, no one would move to Canada in the first place. Canada is aiming to become a "melting pot" for immigrants, and I guess this goal is far-fetched, while the demography continues to change towards specific immigrants from the world (India+China), it'll be next to impossible, to settle

Unfortunately, once you attempt to settle, it is not easy to return back.

I don't have hatred towards anyone, but if these issues aren't addressed; it'll impact each and everyone in Canada. If we don't mention these issues, how would officials know, right?

I am considered a minority where I am; this is causing my issue to be way more complicated, and I feel a bitter taste in my mouth to say this, but discrimination and racism here are real issues. (Literally, every race discriminates against me!)

With that being said, and despite the above issues, I liked Canada with all its pros and cons, and it is up to anyone to work hard and get back on the track.... Respect is earned, not given.

 

[Dalboy1980]

Greetings fellow caveman. I wouldn't recommend coming here for another stint. You're better off having a go in a warmer climate. Good luck mate.

Well issue is my Daughter is Canadian by birth and not just that but the grass isn't greener back home and it was never going to be, just circs meant I had to return so yeah let's see how life pans out but I guess never say never....as my guru Del Boy would say.....'He Who Dares Rodders....He Who Dares....'

 

[akbardxb]

Below is my personal opinion and my observation; it might be a bit harsh.

Given what I saw in Canada, I can see where this is coming from. I had faced discrimination and racism almost everywhere I turn my face (Immigrant, minority, with a disability). Personally, I do not think anything will change in the near future, and the amount of "Reversed immigration" that is taking place is very very concerning. Many of whom I know left Canada the soonest as they could. They believe that safety is an issue, while renovation and evacuation are taking place, and try to convince you that we have a "universal health care system", in which you need to wait 24-48 hours at the hospital's ER is normal, is beyond them to tolerate and call Canada "home"; most were concerned about raising their own kids as well.

I really hope Canada addresses these issues before the immigration scheme fails to attract REAL IMMIGRANTS (not students from South Asia who mostly are coming as students, with the intention to overstay and work, in massive numbers, causing a reduction in minimum wages, increased cost of living, increased rents, and worst, they bring their issues with them...Just think about how Walmart, KFC, Mcdonalds, and similar organizations hire and operate frequently, try to fit in if you're not from South Asia).

I have nothing but respect for every individual, but if Canada doesn't address these issues, maybe one day, no one would move to Canada in the first place. Canada is aiming to become a "melting pot" for immigrants, and I guess this goal is far-fetched, while the demography continues to change towards specific immigrants from the world (India+China), it'll be next to impossible, to settle

Unfortunately, once you attempt to settle, it is not easy to return back.

I don't have hatred towards anyone, but if these issues aren't addressed; it'll impact each and everyone in Canada. If we don't mention these issues, how would officials know, right?

I am considered a minority where I am; this is causing my issue to be way more complicated, and I feel a bitter taste in my mouth to say this, but discrimination and racism here are real issues. (Literally, every race discriminates against me!)

With that being said, and despite the above issues, I liked Canada with all its pros and cons, and it is up to anyone to work hard and get back on the track.... Respect is earned, not given.

Agree on most in your post, except the 'overstaying' part. They are not doing it illegally, if that is what you implied.

So far, I personally know of only two Intl students who went back to India after completing their undergrad. Post secondary education programs, esp of B & C grade colleges are an expensive way to immigrate when you are still 18/19 y/o and can't wait to qualify under any other program. These colleges are creating what I fear is an army of min wage employees. Irrespective of what happens in the long run, Canada will never be short of immigrants. South Asia will continue to fulfil that supply chain and irrespective of who forms the next few Federal Govt. importing cheaper labour will continue.

The India+China issue that you state, is a harsh reality. These two countries account for almost 40% of the global population, so chances are high that your next door neighbour in the future will be from these two countries. They will contribute the highest number of immigrants, unless Canada moves towards a country specific quota. Gross overpopulation, poverty and day to day misery of surviving in these countries will continue to drive immigration because if the quality of life is even marginally better in Canada, they are better off here than back 'home'. The good part is that Canada might become better at cricket and one day win the World Cup. LOL.

Racism & bigotry is another human trait and a fact of life. I am guessing you will never experience brown-on-brown bigotry; that also exists in a big way.

Canada is not utopia, although marketing would want you to believe that. I took a significant hit in my career and pay-check by moving here, but to each their own! Did I make a wrong decision? No. I'm fine to be here. My kids who are growing up in the system, will do better than a mid-career immigrant. I could live with that.

 

[Minister D]

More power to you. You're definitely in the majority as most immigrants do toil through the system to make it work in Canada. Some, like you, overcome the odds and achieve their professional goals (at a high cost), and others have their dreams dashed and drive Ubers to feed their families.

The take away from the article for me, and there are a few, is the disconnect between the impression that Canada is in dire need of skilled workers and the reality on the ground when those skilled workers arrive.

Is it really true there's a shortage of skilled workers in Canada? Are there more skilled workers arriving than there are available jobs? Is it a bait and switch to ensure all Tim Hortons and convenience stores have a pipeline of cheap labor?

Skilled workers are needed yes but most immigrants come here and want to stay in Toronto, it’s like that’s the only place in Canada. Most other provinces need workers and can’t Find none