How to prove Work Experience in Family owned company?

[VP Malviya]

What

CIC's reply makes very much sense and I am surprised at your question in the first place.

You are confused because you do not have a formal, genuine designation, else you won't be asking this question.

People don't SHOW THEMSELVES as employees OR Share holders of companies for that matter.

Either they are one of them or both - ON PAPER - formally. There is no middle ground.

I understand how things could be in India, but Canada is formal in terms of documents.

Imagine if you were in Canada, you would either have filed all of your taxes (YOUR MEANS YOU AS A PERSON) as an employee paid by a company where company retains parts of your salary as taxes and submits those annually at least to government. It also pays parts of your benefits (heath care, pension contributions etc.).

If you have been filing taxes as a self employed applicant, then you must have been paying higher taxes in some cases (no employer exists to contribute parts of your benefits). But at the same time you would have used much of your income towards COMPANY expenses (a self employed person is considered a business) and there by getting much benefit in taxes once your cash flow is above certain threshold.

The point is that at no point any one in Canada EVEN if he works at the company of his father, is in a position to CHOOSE to represent option A or B as stated earlier in the thread. Their status is predetermined based upon their past tax filings.

Ideally CIC would expect something similar to that. If you have filed your past taxes in India as a employee you should use the same - irrespective of your father being the majority stake owner / CEO or whatever.

Since things might not be same in India - try to use the one closest to your actual situation in India - have you been paying taxes as a self employed resource or have you had tax deduction as an employee.

Collect all of those docs and get those audited / verified by a 3rd party company and use their certificate

 

[VP Malviya]

CIC's reply makes very much sense and I am surprised at your question in the first place.

You are confused because you do not have a formal, genuine designation, else you won't be asking this question.

People don't SHOW THEMSELVES as employees OR Share holders of companies for that matter.

Either they are one of them or both - ON PAPER - formally. There is no middle ground.

I understand how things could be in India, but Canada is formal in terms of documents.

Imagine if you were in Canada, you would either have filed all of your taxes (YOUR MEANS YOU AS A PERSON) as an employee paid by a company where company retains parts of your salary as taxes and submits those annually at least to government. It also pays parts of your benefits (heath care, pension contributions etc.).

If you have been filing taxes as a self employed applicant, then you must have been paying higher taxes in some cases (no employer exists to contribute parts of your benefits). But at the same time you would have used much of your income towards COMPANY expenses (a self employed person is considered a business) and there by getting much benefit in taxes once your cash flow is above certain threshold.

The point is that at no point any one in Canada EVEN if he works at the company of his father, is in a position to CHOOSE to represent option A or B as stated earlier in the thread. Their status is predetermined based upon their past tax filings.

Ideally CIC would expect something similar to that. If you have filed your past taxes in India as a employee you should use the same - irrespective of your father being the majority stake owner / CEO or whatever.

Since things might not be same in India - try to use the one closest to your actual situation in India - have you been paying taxes as a self employed resource or have you had tax deduction as an employee.

Collect all of those docs and get those audited / verified by a 3rd party company and use their certificate

What if salary is recieved in cash and also the amount is not taxable then how to proof work experience. Also in small firm ESi and PF are not deducted ..did anyone have similiar situation and got PR please reply

 

[harneetsingh211]

hi,
i would be grateful if you could help me with my problem.so i graduated in 2009 and started working for my fathers company.it is a retail shop and i have been managing the shop completely.i was responsible for the complete operations of the outlet. i only took salary in cash and filed ITR as SELF EMPLOYED.In 2013 i opened my own company which manufactures bakery products and i have all the documents to prove its existence.SO I WANTED TO ASK YOU THAT FOR MY EXPERIENCE FROM 2009 TO 2013 I SHOULD USE SELF EMPLOYED OR SALARIED.I CAN GET LETTERS FROM MY DAD BUT I DO NOT HAVE ANY BANK TRANSFERS.

 

[Pranshu]

What if salary is recieved in cash and also the amount is not taxable then how to proof work experience. Also in small firm ESi and PF are not deducted ..did anyone have similiar situation and got PR please reply

I have the same question.. waiting to some solutions.

 

[fkl]

I have the same question.. waiting to some solutions.

I don't know the answer to that. It would be some thing shady for sure. Salary received in cash has no record / no evidence of being salary legally. May be you could try with the employer giving some formal documentation explaining that.

Though i would say in general 'not having these things' eventually affect the quality of your work experience to CIC. They are very likely to not accept that work experience as credible.

There might would have been cases where providing alternate documentation from Employer would have worked if the candidate's profile otherwise looks good. But that again is on chance and depends upon the quality of documentation you provide and individual visa officer reviewing your file. Asking others won't be of much help in my opinion unless there is some one in exactly similar circumstances.

 

[Pranshu]

I don't know the answer to that. It would be some thing shady for sure. Salary received in cash has no record / no evidence of being salary legally. May be you could try with the employer giving some formal documentation explaining that.

Though i would say in general 'not having these things' eventually affect the quality of your work experience to CIC. They are very likely to not accept that work experience as credible.

There might would have been cases where providing alternate documentation from Employer would have worked if the candidate's profile otherwise looks good. But that again is on chance and depends upon the quality of documentation you provide and individual visa officer reviewing your file. Asking others won't be of much help in my opinion unless there is some one in exactly similar circumstances.

i have my appointment letter, salary slips stating mode of payment as cash, and my employer has also agreed to give me the refrence letter stating the that the salary was given in cash along with all the other necessary information.
will i need anything else?

 

[abhnigam]

Hello Experts,
I have a somewhat similar situation in the case or my work experience. My spouse started her own firm (which is a Pre-School chain) in 2014 and since then she is working as a self-employed individual. We registered the firm as a Sole Proprietorship firm under MSME act, India and we have the UAN number for the firm. I joined her and started working for the business in 2016 as Director and take a fixed monthly salary from the business for my services. I have the following documents to prove this work experience:
1. Offer cum Joining letter,
2. Monthly Pay Slips,
3. Reference Letter,
4. Relieving Letter (whenever I decide to leave the firm in order to migrate to Canada),
5. Income Tax Return,
6. Bank Statements to show the credit of my monthly salary, and
7. An additional reference letter from a colleague.

The only issue is, as this is a small business unit, and we do not have a separate HR department in the firm, all the signing authority till date is with my spouse (as she is the proprietor). Therefore, all the letters above (Offer letter, pay slips, reference letter, and the relieving letter) will be signed by my spouse. Also as my spouse will accompany me to Canada, so we will either close the business or sell it off before coming to Canada.

I am not very sure if this work experience will be considered as a valid one by CIC. For my spouse, I can show some additional documents, like the registration document, GST certificate, lease agreement of the office and the Current account details of the firm. All these documents are in the name of my spouse confirming that she is the owner of the business.

Please advise if these documents are sufficient to prove my work experience with this firm?

 

[yash_canada_express_entry]

Thanks everyone for the reply. All your inputs were very valuable and helped a great deal.
I am writing this post to make things for any future applicant with the same case easier.
Finally I have submitted my PR Application with reference letter signed by my father, director of the company. In addition to that I have submitted bank statements, Income Tax Return, Provident fund passbook, and all other supporting documents as I mentioned in my original(1st post) post above.

In addition to that, I got reply on my case from CHC Delhi. I am posting the contents of the reply here for reference of future applicants:

"Regarding work experience with family firms; this type of employment experience is one of the more difficult to assess in the India context, especially if the business is relatively small and therefore has no independent accounting department or human resources management. Verifiable supporting materials from an independent third party will strengthen the application, for example salary deductions toward pension contributions, government issued taxation documents, or detailed banking statements can help to avoid reliance on self-serving employer references and testimonials signed by close family, friends and colleagues."

I hope these inputs benefits others. I will update my status on this post as my PR Application proceeds.
All the Best

Hey, I am in a similar situation but not salaried. I am working on profit sharing basis and my IT (Income tax) returns show everything. Can you connect with me please? My Email ID is yashdn1988@gmail.com This is my situation, I am a 5% partner in one of the firms since past 3-4 Years and this year company booked a profit. I haven't taken the money in my account yet. I will do the same as well. How do I show this experience? While I am a partner in this company, I had a full time job in the past + I am currently also working as a freelancer. I would appreciate if you can connect with me. This is extremely confusing.

 

[Amit1994]

hi,
i would be grateful if you could help me with my problem.so i graduated in 2009 and started working for my fathers company.it is a retail shop and i have been managing the shop completely.i was responsible for the complete operations of the outlet. i only took salary in cash and filed ITR as SELF EMPLOYED.In 2013 i opened my own company which manufactures bakery products and i have all the documents to prove its existence.SO I WANTED TO ASK YOU THAT FOR MY EXPERIENCE FROM 2009 TO 2013 I SHOULD USE SELF EMPLOYED OR SALARIED.I CAN GET LETTERS FROM MY DAD BUT I DO NOT HAVE ANY BANK TRANSFERS.

Hey... Can you please share your experience?
Was your experience in your dads company considered? And what all documents did you submit ?

 

[Amit1994]

Thanks everyone for the reply. All your inputs were very valuable and helped a great deal.
I am writing this post to make things for any future applicant with the same case easier.
Finally I have submitted my PR Application with reference letter signed by my father, director of the company. In addition to that I have submitted bank statements, Income Tax Return, Provident fund passbook, and all other supporting documents as I mentioned in my original(1st post) post above.

In addition to that, I got reply on my case from CHC Delhi. I am posting the contents of the reply here for reference of future applicants:

"Regarding work experience with family firms; this type of employment experience is one of the more difficult to assess in the India context, especially if the business is relatively small and therefore has no independent accounting department or human resources management. Verifiable supporting materials from an independent third party will strengthen the application, for example salary deductions toward pension contributions, government issued taxation documents, or detailed banking statements can help to avoid reliance on self-serving employer references and testimonials signed by close family, friends and colleagues."

I hope these inputs benefits others. I will update my status on this post as my PR Application proceeds.
All the Best

What did you finally do? Did you manage to get your PR?

 

[shinnun]

Hello Experts,
I have a somewhat similar situation in the case or my work experience. My spouse started her own firm (which is a Pre-School chain) in 2014 and since then she is working as a self-employed individual. We registered the firm as a Sole Proprietorship firm under MSME act, India and we have the UAN number for the firm. I joined her and started working for the business in 2016 as Director and take a fixed monthly salary from the business for my services. I have the following documents to prove this work experience:
1. Offer cum Joining letter,
2. Monthly Pay Slips,
3. Reference Letter,
4. Relieving Letter (whenever I decide to leave the firm in order to migrate to Canada),
5. Income Tax Return,
6. Bank Statements to show the credit of my monthly salary, and
7. An additional reference letter from a colleague.

The only issue is, as this is a small business unit, and we do not have a separate HR department in the firm, all the signing authority till date is with my spouse (as she is the proprietor). Therefore, all the letters above (Offer letter, pay slips, reference letter, and the relieving letter) will be signed by my spouse. Also as my spouse will accompany me to Canada, so we will either close the business or sell it off before coming to Canada.

I am not very sure if this work experience will be considered as a valid one by CIC. For my spouse, I can show some additional documents, like the registration document, GST certificate, lease agreement of the office and the Current account details of the firm. All these documents are in the name of my spouse confirming that she is the owner of the business.

Please advise if these documents are sufficient to prove my work experience with this firm?

Hi. Can tell us what you did? I am in the same situation. I am working for my husband. He is the employer

 

[Saleemhi]

Hi. Can tell us what you did? I am in the same situation. I am working for my husband. He is the employer

Did u get PR? Please let us know

 

[Saleemhi]

Hey... Can you please share your experience?
Was your experience in your dads company considered? And what all documents did you submit ?[/QUOT

Please share us your further action on this issue? how far did u go to get the issue resolved

 

[Astha Desai]

Hello Experts,
I have a somewhat similar situation in the case or my work experience. My spouse started her own firm (which is a Pre-School chain) in 2014 and since then she is working as a self-employed individual. We registered the firm as a Sole Proprietorship firm under MSME act, India and we have the UAN number for the firm. I joined her and started working for the business in 2016 as Director and take a fixed monthly salary from the business for my services. I have the following documents to prove this work experience:
1. Offer cum Joining letter,
2. Monthly Pay Slips,
3. Reference Letter,
4. Relieving Letter (whenever I decide to leave the firm in order to migrate to Canada),
5. Income Tax Return,
6. Bank Statements to show the credit of my monthly salary, and
7. An additional reference letter from a colleague.

The only issue is, as this is a small business unit, and we do not have a separate HR department in the firm, all the signing authority till date is with my spouse (as she is the proprietor). Therefore, all the letters above (Offer letter, pay slips, reference letter, and the relieving letter) will be signed by my spouse. Also as my spouse will accompany me to Canada, so we will either close the business or sell it off before coming to Canada.

I am not very sure if this work experience will be considered as a valid one by CIC. For my spouse, I can show some additional documents, like the registration document, GST certificate, lease agreement of the office and the Current account details of the firm. All these documents are in the name of my spouse confirming that she is the owner of the business.

Please advise if these documents are sufficient to prove my work experience with this firm?

Could you please share if your PR journey was successful? It'd be great if you could further update your experience with PR Process !

 

[Astha Desai]

Hello everyone,
I have query about how to prove experience of working in a company owned by my family.

Here's my situation:
We own a company incorporated as Public Ltd, and shareholders of the company are my family members (father, uncle, mother, cousin brothers etc. and most shareholders, if not all, bears same family name). I am also a shareholder in the company and owns a little less than 10% of total shares. The company is engaged in construction business. I am working in the company since year 2009 and have been managing projects as a Incharge/Manager, and have experience of independently completing under my supervision a total of six projects totaling to combined cost of CAD 30 million from 2009 till now. Since June 2013, I have been appointed as Director of the company.

In express entry I am using the following NOC Codes
NOC Code 0711 - Construction Manager (for period Jan 09 to May 13) and
NOC Code 0016 - Senior Manager (from Jun 2013 till day)


The dilemma I face is how to prove my work experience and present my case. I see the following possibilities-

Option A:- Should i show myself as employed at the company. then the problem I face is that the experience letter of the company will be signed by my father. I can provide Salary slips and Income tax return, as supporting documents along with experience letter.

Option B:- Should I declare myself as self employed?

In either case I can submit the following documents to prove my experience:
1. Balance Sheets (for proof of Revenue) of the company from 2009.
2. Constitution of company
3. List of shareholders certified by Auditor
4. Government Contracts signed by me on behalf the company.
5. Minutes of meeting attended by me during my work with company.
6. some Letters written to government offices on behalf of my company (only some because there are thousands of them)
7. Board resolutions of the company wherein I have been/was authorized to act on behalf of the company.
8. Minutes of meeting of different Arbitration in which i represented the company.

Please give me your guidance as to how should i proceed so that my work experience is considered.

In my personal opinion, I think I should go with option B, and provide a letter of experience myself listing all the projects done by me. and then substantiating the same with the above mentioned documents.
Please also guide if using two NOC codes is fine?

Please guide, I am confused and cannot decide on how should I proceed.

Thanks in advance,

Could you please share if your PR journey was successful? It'd be great if you could further update your experience with PR Process !