How to enter Canada while appeal of a removal order is in process

[raka1]

1. Your aunt's situation is beyond the scope of this forum and she should seek competent legal advice e.g the owner of this forum. An appeal on H&C grounds which is the only option (since she clearly doesn't have 730 days) will be a hard sell as she has to explain a 20 year absence from Canada which exceeds her 1200 days (slightly over 3 years) by over a multiple of 6. However the courts will review all the facts of the case including the stated domestic issues and on the day you just never know. She has 60 days from the date she was notified of the refusal to appeal the refusal of the PRTD. If she does not appeal in this time she will lose her PR on day 61. Until the appeal is decided she is a PR. Many PRs submit the appeal and follow up with supporting documentation afterwards.

2. Her only option to return to Canada subject to an in time appeal is to get a US visa and enter via a land border with private vehicle or on foot. She will likely get held up at the border if she has no landing documents or any proof of her previous presence in Canada. She will be admitted but may have to return to a local CIC Office for the PR status to be confirmed. She then has anywhere between 1-4 years for the appeal to be decided. In this time she can work, study etc but she should expect difficulty in dealing with bureaucratic process that insist on a valid PR Card for proof of status e.g applying for Provincial Health Coverage. She can apply and get a one year validity PR Card.

3. Other option is for the son to return to Canada and sponsor the mother either initially on a super visa (visitors) or for PR under the Parents/ Grandparents scheme. Both especially the latter have income requirements. The P/G scheme has quotas but Canada effective Oct 19, 2015 has a new Party in Power that has committed to doubling this. Given the income requirements the P&G option is some time away. Both options can be considered during the appeal. The appeal effectively guarantees entry into Canada. The options can still be pursued even if she decides not to appeal but then future re-entry into Canada would depend on meeting the qualifying criteria including being a bona fide visitor how will temporarily visit Canada then return home which is seems she won't be.

4. Your legal advisor will evaluate all options with you based on how you can deal with uncertainty and stresses vis a vis your desired short and long term plans whether only a visit is needed or long term residence is required.

Good luck

Dear Msafiri,
u r angel. who are helping people with that much courage and without any benefits. why dont u go and apply for certified consultant license. ;D
i really like your opinion to go for appeal and keep these documents with her to show on US borders to identify herself.
Sir what do u think which Canada US border is more lenient for that kind of cases.?
is it fine that her Canadian son go with her from USA to Canada? or he reach there in Canada first and then come to the border to receive her (may b border police need any bond or sponsor to leave her)?

 

[Msafiri]

Dear Msafiri,
u r angel. who are helping people with that much courage and without any benefits. why dont u go and apply for certified consultant license. ;D
i really like your opinion to go for appeal and keep these documents with her to show on US borders to identify herself.
Sir what do u think which Canada US border is more lenient for that kind of cases.?
is it fine that her Canadian son go with her from USA to Canada? or he reach there in Canada first and then come to the border to receive her (may b border police need any bond or sponsor to leave her)?

Glad to be of help. She will be admitted as a PR regardless of which border as long she has an in time appeal. Check the CBSA border crossings opening hours and proximity to where you intend to reside. Remember she must use non commercial means to cross the border e.g private vehicle, foot. She should carry the letter she receives from the IAD with the appeal details for presentation to CBSA. My humble opinion is that she is best to travel with her son for both moral support and that the son's Canadian citizenship by birth in Canada will to an extent verify her presence in Canada on day X of his birth. This may make the border crossing faster and less troublesome.

 

[cosmo777]

Hi everyone,

Semi-related question here: I know someone who (along with their spouse) came to Canada on 3 year study permits. They did not end up going to university. Instead, one spouse switched their study permit to an open work permit while the other spouse dropped-out of school and did not attend for 1.5 years. In the meantime the spouse with the WP applied to a Prov. Nominee Program and received a certificate a few months later. It should be noted that this particular PN Program was not open to international students or the spouses of international students. Needless to say, this couple was very lucky to get a nomination and ultimately PR given the level of misrepresentation that occurred. Firstly: they lied about being students to get in to Canada and secondly: they lied to get their nomination.

If they get caught by CBSA what chance would they have on appeal to IAD to keep their PR status? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks

 

[Wadiek]

1. CIC typically ask PRs who live abroad and apply for PR Card renewal to collect the card in person. This so they can verify declared travel dates by examining your passport stamps.

2. The IRPA as I read it enables issuance of "attend appeal" PRTDs to those PRs who have an appeal on the basis of a residency determination made outside Canada (sec 63.4) and either were physically present in Canada at least once in the 365 days prior to the PRTD refusal or the IAD has directed the PR attend the appeal in person. In other words you can get an "attend appeal" PRTD if you were bounced a PRTD but you won't get an "attend appeal" PRTD if you were reported at the border as you were. Get a second opinion from your legal representative but you may get stuck outside Canada. Your are thus limited to waiting for the one year validity PR Card, having the PR Card couriered if not required in person for pick up or US/Canada land border entry. As a side issue leaving Canada after being reported is a plain bad idea. You should stay in Canada and try be productive (get a job) as this is considered a positive factor at the appeal hearing. Where your appeal is at the margins this could just swing things in your favour!

Thank you so much Misafiri.. Really appreciate your valuable input.
Regarding your advise of finding a job in canada, that's what Im typically doing. My only fear is that after i got established with a job and carrer for a year or 2, my appeal will be refused at the hearing, which will force me to leave everything and go back to my home country!

As i told you i have humanitarian case that may force me to fly out of canada while my PR is expired.

So my question is:
1- can i enter canada from USA through the border by a private car, will they let me in with an expired PR card and a proof of appeal?
2-What is the probability of my appeal getting refused while having a job and doing something useful in Canada?

I have also a specific case, as my spouse was sponsored By me (family class) - her residence date is 3.5 years after mine- so her pr case is different than mine as she will meet the residency obligations ( staying 2 out of 5 years). Does she has the right to sponsor me back after 5 years of her Pr time? ( as a back up plan in case my appeal got refused?) or will it be difficult for me to be approved as sponsored person ( as i lost my residence before)

Appreciate your kind valuable advice.

 

[Msafiri]

Thank you so much Misafiri.. Really appreciate your valuable input.
Regarding your advise of finding a job in canada, that's what Im typically doing. My only fear is that after i got established with a job and carrer for a year or 2, my appeal will be refused at the hearing, which will force me to leave everything and go back to my home country!

As i told you i have humanitarian case that may force me to fly out of canada while my PR is expired.

So my question is:
1- can i enter canada from USA through the border by a private car, will they let me in with an expired PR card and a proof of appeal?
2-What is the probability of my appeal getting refused while having a job and doing something useful in Canada?

I have also a specific case, as my spouse was sponsored By me (family class) - her residence date is 3.5 years after mine- so her pr case is different than mine as she will meet the residency obligations ( staying 2 out of 5 years). Does she has the right to sponsor me back after 5 years of her Pr time? ( as a back up plan in case my appeal got refused?) or will it be difficult for me to be approved as sponsored person ( as i lost my residence before)

Appreciate your kind valuable advice.

1. Yes you can enter visa the US in the manner you propose. This plan for you and all other PRs in a similar position depends on CBP admitting you into the US. I always wonder what would happen if a PR on report got bounced by CBP and thus closing off the land border entry option. This is why its best to remain in Canada until your appeal is decided. Once you make it to the Canadian border then CBSA must admit you as per constitutional right since you are a PR until your appeal is decided (subject to not subsequently becoming inadmissible for another reason e.g serious criminality for which no right of appeal exists and would supersede your current appeal)

2. If your appeal is on the margins it could (but may not) swing things in your favour. Its not considered on its own but in addition to all the other factors of the case primarily number of shortfall days, reasons for absence, what action if any you took to mitigate the absence etc which no one else but you is privy to. If you were absent for 5 years due to a better job some other place then working in Canada during the 'appeal' period is on its own unlikely to get you through. To address your concerns I wouldn't sweat the 'my time in Canada will be a waste if I don't win the appeal'. You will get professional/work experience and an income which is better than nothing...at least you have your PR status for x years...isn't this better than visitor status?

3. My humble opinion is that its best to deal with CIC (or any other immigration agency e.g CBP) on certainties as opposed to probables. If you get re-sponsored by your spouse subject to her meeting the criteria and you passing the relevant background and medical checks then its likely a certainty you will get PR afresh. You would need to withdraw your appeal and lose PR prior to any sponsorship taking place. That you have lost PR status before by RO breach is not an issue as opposed to say loss of PR due to criminality.

4. If you sit out to an appeal its probable you may get to keep your PR but its also probable you could lose it. You ought to know the odds based on your absence reasons. Its helpful I find to view a clear cut 'no report PR status' as the basic platform for citizenship. If your ultimate goal is to attain citizenship and never worry about the RO then the sooner you accumulate PR residence days the better. Do you want to do that now or after a potential appeal rejection and PR re-sponsorship?

5. Remember the immigration laws keep changing. What is your long term plan? Do you want to live in Canada? Some other place? It may be time to carry out a detailed self review and then act accordingly.

Good luck

 

[Wadiek]

1. Yes you can enter visa the US in the manner you propose. This plan for you and all other PRs in a similar position depends on CBP admitting you into the US. I always wonder what would happen if a PR on report got bounced by CBP and thus closing off the land border entry option. This is why its best to remain in Canada until your appeal is decided. Once you make it to the Canadian border then CBSA must admit you as per constitutional right since you are a PR until your appeal is decided (subject to not subsequently becoming inadmissible for another reason e.g serious criminality for which no right of appeal exists and would supersede your current appeal)

2. If your appeal is on the margins it could (but may not) swing things in your favour. Its not considered on its own but in addition to all the other factors of the case primarily number of shortfall days, reasons for absence, what action if any you took to mitigate the absence etc which no one else but you is privy to. If you were absent for 5 years due to a better job some other place then working in Canada during the 'appeal' period is on its own unlikely to get you through. To address your concerns I wouldn't sweat the 'my time in Canada will be a waste if I don't win the appeal'. You will get professional/work experience and an income which is better than nothing...at least you have your PR status for x years...isn't this better than visitor status?

3. My humble opinion is that its best to deal with CIC (or any other immigration agency e.g CBP) on certainties as opposed to probables. If you get re-sponsored by your spouse subject to her meeting the criteria and you passing the relevant background and medical checks then its likely a certainty you will get PR afresh. You would need to withdraw your appeal and lose PR prior to any sponsorship taking place. That you have lost PR status before by RO breach is not an issue as opposed to say loss of PR due to criminality.

4. If you sit out to an appeal its probable you may get to keep your PR but its also probable you could lose it. You ought to know the odds based on your absence reasons. Its helpful I find to view a clear cut 'no report PR status' as the basic platform for citizenship. If your ultimate goal is to attain citizenship and never worry about the RO then the sooner you accumulate PR residence days the better. Do you want to do that now or after a potential appeal rejection and PR re-sponsorship?

5. Remember the immigration laws keep changing. What is your long term plan? Do you want to live in Canada? Some other place? It may be time to carry out a detailed self review and then act accordingly.

Good luck

Thanks a lot for the clear and detailed response. It seems that i need to set priorities as you mentioned.
Just one last question, after i got my departure order, i sent my notice of appeal to IAD within 30 days. I actually recieved a confirmation of recepit of notice of appeal from them. Later on I received a communicatoon from CBSA filing the notice of appeal and appeal record with IAD.
However, in bothe letters, nothing mentioned that my departure order is stayed? Im jsut concerned that my departure order is still in effect ! Which will make it deportation order?! How can I make sure my departure order is now stayed or the acknowledge letter of IAD is enough?
Thanks.

 

[Msafiri]

Thanks a lot for the clear and detailed response. It seems that i need to set priorities as you mentioned.
Just one last question, after i got my departure order, i sent my notice of appeal to IAD within 30 days. I actually recieved a confirmation of recepit of notice of appeal from them. Later on I received a communicatoon from CBSA filing the notice of appeal and appeal record with IAD.
However, in bothe letters, nothing mentioned that my departure order is stayed? Im jsut concerned that my departure order is still in effect ! Which will make it deportation order?! How can I make sure my departure order is now stayed or the acknowledge letter of IAD is enough?
Thanks.

IRPA

Enforceable removal order

48. (1) A removal order is enforceable if it has come into force and is not stayed.

In force

49. (1) A removal order comes into force on the latest of the following dates:
(a) the day the removal order is made, if there is no right to appeal;
(b) the day the appeal period expires, if there is a right to appeal and no appeal is made; and
(c) the day of the final determination of the appeal, if an appeal is made.

A departure order is a type of removal order.

 

[raka1]

Glad to be of help. She will be admitted as a PR regardless of which border as long she has an in time appeal. Check the CBSA border crossings opening hours and proximity to where you intend to reside. Remember she must use non commercial means to cross the border e.g private vehicle, foot. She should carry the letter she receives from the IAD with the appeal details for presentation to CBSA. My humble opinion is that she is best to travel with her son for both moral support and that the son's Canadian citizenship by birth in Canada will to an extent verify her presence in Canada on day X of his birth. This may make the border crossing faster and less troublesome.

Dear Msafiri,
My friend got PR in 2006 and she has completed her 760 days from 2006 till 2008. but because of her husbands domestic violence she run away from Canada. Then her husband start blackmailing her that your PR is going to be canceled because i m going to submit a application against u that is why he keep asking her money and till now she sent him more then 200,000$. still he need more. (is it possible that he filled divorce in her absence and court has given the order in his favour) while technically speaking they are still married.
Please what do u suggest for her now ? because she want to go back.
she is not from visa free country that is why she need visa.
still she did not applied for any travel documents, no appeal no nothing.
do u think going from USA Canada border can b a option for her or u want her to file travel documents first and get refused and then appeal and then take these appeal papers and use USA border?

 

[Msafiri]

Dear Msafiri,
My friend got PR in 2006 and she has completed her 760 days from 2006 till 2008. but because of her husbands domestic violence she run away from Canada. Then her husband start blackmailing her that your PR is going to be canceled because i m going to submit a application against u that is why he keep asking her money and till now she sent him more then 200,000$. still he need more. (is it possible that he filled divorce in her absence and court has given the order in his favour) while technically speaking they are still married.
Please what do u suggest for her now ? because she want to go back.
she is not from visa free country that is why she need visa.
still she did not applied for any travel documents, no appeal no nothing.
do u think going from USA Canada border can b a option for her or u want her to file travel documents first and get refused and then appeal and then take these appeal papers and use USA border?

Go the USA route. PRTDs are a high risk strategy and it will entail provision of details and documentary evidence of the alleged abuse (that's how CIC will see it unless there is a police/court records) from back in 2006-2008. She should go to the police on the issue of blackmail as once landed the breakdown of the relationship does not lead to PR revocation especially since there was no condition 51/Conditional PR back then unless there is a legal process with CIC and the courts based on misrepresentation. As a party to the process she would typically know about the court proceedings .

 

[KITTI]

To Msafiri
Dear sir,
I received a letter from Citizenship & Immigration to pick up my renewed 1 year PR card; with a specified appointment date and time.
Will this letter be sufficient for CBSA officer to let me cross the U.S./Canadian border?
Waiting for your response
Thank you

 

[Msafiri]

To Msafiri
Dear sir,
I received a letter from Citizenship & Immigration to pick up my renewed 1 year PR card; with a specified appointment date and time.
Will this letter be sufficient for CBSA officer to let me cross the U.S./Canadian border?
Waiting for your response
Thank you

Until your appeal is decided you are a PR and have the right to enter Canada. Sure the PR Card pick up letter will help confirm your PR status so its useful to present it for a 'smoother' entrance in the sense it has your name, UCI etc but again not having it won't result in refusal of admission.

 

[KITTI]

Until your appeal is decided you are a PR and have the right to enter Canada. Sure the PR Card pick up letter will help confirm your PR status so its useful to present it for a 'smoother' entrance in the sense it has your name, UCI etc but again not having it won't result in refusal of admission.

Thank you very much Sir

 

[KITTI]

Until your appeal is decided you are a PR and have the right to enter Canada. Sure the PR Card pick up letter will help confirm your PR status so its useful to present it for a 'smoother' entrance in the sense it has your name, UCI etc but again not having it won't result in refusal of admission.

Mr Safiri
A final question please. A taxi should be good no? To cross the border; it is not considered a commercial vehicle?
Thank you

 

[Msafiri]

Mr Safiri
A final question please. A taxi should be good no? To cross the border; it is not considered a commercial vehicle?
Thank you

Taxi is considered a commercial vehicle. Get a rental. Most major US border towns e.g Niagara Falls NY have plenty of one way Canadian plated rental vehicles in the US that you can drive into Canada. Check the major companies e.g Avis, Hertz etc for pricing. Alternatively you can cross by foot (if crossing allows), bike or private car. Watch out for private cars though you need to know the person driving and verify ownership. If you don't know them and they cross the border with a 'stolen' car or something/someone illegal you will be in trouble too.

 

[raka1]

Go the USA route. PRTDs are a high risk strategy and it will entail provision of details and documentary evidence of the alleged abuse (that's how CIC will see it unless there is a police/court records) from back in 2006-2008. She should go to the police on the issue of blackmail as once landed the breakdown of the relationship does not lead to PR revocation especially since there was no condition 51/Conditional PR back then unless there is a legal process with CIC and the courts based on misrepresentation. As a party to the process she would typically know about the court proceedings .

dear msafiri: u did not mention that now do she have to apply for PRTD or not? how u suggest for her to travel to Canada in current circumstances?