HKVO advice needed

[Phalos]

You wanna hear something funny? A common question on an Outland interview:

"What will you do if I refuse your application today?"
if you answer, I will REAPPLY - they will refuse you lololol.
if you say I will APPEAL - u will get approved on spot lololol.
You see what I'm saying ? and ur 100% right about what you said....

 

[Phalos]

You apparently have not paid attention to news either in Canada or China for the last 30 or so years. And including quite recently. Prior to HK transfer, the phrase (if I remember correctly) 'three legged stool' was pretty well known - referring to wealthy families establishing business/residential ties in mainland China (to make real money and bureaucratic ties), HK (to have access to West/capital markets), and Canada/USA for protection/safety/savings should HK transfer go 'bad' (and the strategy was often to send spouses/children to Canada to establish the PR/citizenship base).

There are PLENTY of cases of Chinese/HK families attempting to establish residence in Canada as a 'backup' with no intention of actually residing - as a backup of sorts. (And lots of outright fraudulent cases - some quite high profile - up to and including fake records to show residence and get citizenship). It has also been a periodic political issue in Canada - that some PRs, including spousal, use Canadian PR status as a convenience factor, or intentionally stay in Canada only long enough to get citizenship and then leave (and then, by so-called 'chain' sponsorship, try to sponsor spouse to get PR status with no intention of moving to or residing in Canada).

Although this doesn't apply just to China (some other countries periodically mentioned), it has been a consistent issue with respect to China.

So you believe YOU are the honest applicant being treated unfairly - but if you look skeptically at your own file, you'd see all you really provided was emotional claims to want to return, and with close to zero current ties to Canada (not having visited in five years, no bank account, nothing). Again, looked at skeptically - you actually perfectly fit the profile of someone who just wants PR status for spouse for travel convenience and maybe to get passport down the road. (That's not a criticism or questioning your bona fides - your life is what it is, and that's fine - but you fit a profile and don't even know it).

Again, you're this upset and YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN REFUSED. Geez, they just asked you for some additional documents.

And as far as I can tell from what you've written, your relationship has not been subject to any special scrutiny - they were even a bit lenient about the fact that you didn't submit marriage certificate. If they wanted to ding you just for money, they could have refused you right away on basis you're not married (because you didn't provide PROOF OF MARRIAGE).

I agree with this 100% and THAT is why I suggested in the beginning that OP should FLY BACK to Canada as soon as possible and treat this seriously. They apparently dont even care about the genuinness of his relationship because they want all along to get him on no intent to resettle back.
Others, keep saying oh just email this and make a long distance phone call....I say NO, I say go back and SETTLE.
That way NO ONE can doubt intentions.

 

[Phalos]

Since OP is in China, it makes things that much more serious. If it were USA for example, then I agree a few superficial proofs would suffice....but not from China.

 

[armoured]

I agree with this 100% and THAT is why I suggested in the beginning that OP should FLY BACK to Canada as soon as possible and treat this seriously. They apparently dont even care about the genuinness of his relationship because they want all along to get him on no intent to resettle back.
Others, keep saying oh just email this and make a long distance phone call....I say NO, I say go back and SETTLE.
That way NO ONE can doubt intentions.

One can agree with my points above (I do, I wrote it) and still not believe that it is necessary to depart the next day to Canada. You're suggesting extreme measures when - looked at objectively - his original packet didn't seem to have much concrete except for letter from mother. Perhaps you're right, but it's also possible they were just looking for SOME concrete evidence.

 

[armoured]

I think I said it earlier, maybe it got deleted, but they always assume the worst about outland applicants.
If the sponsor resides in Canada, then the applicant MUST be wanting to scam Canada into getting in the country.
If the sponsor resides outside Canada, then the applicant MUST be just wanting to get a Canadian passport for ease of world travel, with no intent of settling in Canada.
IRCC considers us scammers and fraudsters, and the onus is on US to prove otherwise.

Prior to covid family-class sponsorship was running at about 85,000 people a year. Let's say that's 40,000 files a year. They say (and I believe) that refusals are low - I don't remember figures but recall less than 3% a year, and about 80% processed in twelve months (i.e. no massive additional scrutiny).

So sorry, but your depiction is simply not true. They accept the vast majority of cases without putting most of them through some damned-if-you-live-in-Canada, damned-if-you-don't vicious circle.

I don't know your case or what has led to it, some genuine cases do get caught up, but there are also fraudulent cases, and some of them get through without being detected. Any process is going to catch some genuine cases up in asking extra proof, and also let some through with too little. No fraud detection system is perfect (because of course fraudsters also adapt their techniques). [And this is true in many, many areas, not just immigration.]

 

[armoured]

Question. Your opinion. Do you think had I sent in only emails from me to realtors and their replies looking at apartments. Shown emails between pet companies, letters resignation and saying I was first month staying at my mothers and showing transfer of funds they would have passed us?

Personal opinion, yes. But only personal opinion.

 

[dw33]

You apparently have not paid attention to news either in Canada or China for the last 30 or so years. And including quite recently. Prior to HK transfer, the phrase (if I remember correctly) 'three legged stool' was pretty well known - referring to wealthy families establishing business/residential ties in mainland China (to make real money and bureaucratic ties), HK (to have access to West/capital markets), and Canada/USA for protection/safety/savings should HK transfer go 'bad' (and the strategy was often to send spouses/children to Canada to establish the PR/citizenship base).

There are PLENTY of cases of Chinese/HK families attempting to establish residence in Canada as a 'backup' with no intention of actually residing - as a backup of sorts. (And lots of outright fraudulent cases - some quite high profile - up to and including fake records to show residence and get citizenship). It has also been a periodic political issue in Canada - that some PRs, including spousal, use Canadian PR status as a convenience factor, or intentionally stay in Canada only long enough to get citizenship and then leave (and then, by so-called 'chain' sponsorship, try to sponsor spouse to get PR status with no intention of moving to or residing in Canada).

Although this doesn't apply just to China (some other countries periodically mentioned), it has been a consistent issue with respect to China.

So you believe YOU are the honest applicant being treated unfairly - but if you look skeptically at your own file, you'd see all you really provided was emotional claims to want to return, and with close to zero current ties to Canada (not having visited in five years, no bank account, nothing). Again, looked at skeptically - you actually perfectly fit the profile of someone who just wants PR status for spouse for travel convenience and maybe to get passport down the road. (That's not a criticism or questioning your bona fides - your life is what it is, and that's fine - but you fit a profile and don't even know it).

Again, you're this upset and YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN REFUSED. Geez, they just asked you for some additional documents.

And as far as I can tell from what you've written, your relationship has not been subject to any special scrutiny - they were even a bit lenient about the fact that you didn't submit marriage certificate. If they wanted to ding you just for money, they could have refused you right away on basis you're not married (because you didn't provide PROOF OF MARRIAGE).

You just called me a scammer basically. Nice!

 

[dw33]

Since OP is in China, it makes things that much more serious. If it were USA for example, then I agree a few superficial proofs would suffice....but not from China.

Completely.agree

 

[armoured]

You just called me a scammer basically. Nice!

No, not at all. I said you seemed unaware that this is a real issue, and that the original evidence you provided fits a profile that they are on the lookout for and was (objectively) rather thin.

That doesn't mean you're a scammer. It doesn't even mean that they think you are - asking for additional info is hardly the inquisition.

You seem to think that ANY additional request means they are persecuting you. You require that they take everything you say at face value, and yet you think they're uneducated idiots.

 

[dw33]

When I submit everthing that is genuine and do my part, and they cant even upload on gckeys a request button for my INTENT TO IMMIGRATE documents, wow. I also am well aware of the fraudulant activity here.But if thats the case why even do a criminal check on me the sponsor? Why would I apply to immigrate if I was going to stay here? They contradict themself. I can guarantee if this fails and I went home and applied as sponsor in Canada they would find something like the relationship isnt genuine. Clearly they believe its genuine now as not a request about it in adr. Anyways dont want to argue, you can be right about all. I do not care. I just hope anyone who is legit desrves to pass and non legit ok fail. But this INTENT TO IMMIGRATE is unreal. Tell why would I even waste my time? Furthermore.I admit my knowledge on immugration is zero, you clearly seem to know a lot and good for you. You give helpful advice, but if you think innocent people dont fail you are drastically wrong.

 

[armoured]

I also am well aware of the fraudulant activity here.But if thats the case why even do a criminal check on me the sponsor?

You are aware that a criminal check is hardly ever going to catch immigration fraud? They're mostly different concepts.

Why would I apply to immigrate if I was going to stay here?

You clearly didn't read or understand my post above. Lots of people historically have attempted to arrange immigration with no intent of residing in Canada.

I can guarantee if this fails and I went home and applied as sponsor in Canada they would find something like the relationship isnt genuine.

You cannot guarantee that. You actually have no idea. Lots and lots of files get through without additional document requests or serious issues about their relationship. With your five-year marriage and history of living together, you would likely not have issues with your relationship.

You give helpful advice, but if you think innocent people dont fail you are drastically wrong.

For those with reading skills, it should be clear I did not claim that, but rather the opposite.

 

[Phalos]

When I submit everthing that is genuine and do my part, and they cant even upload on gckeys a request button for my INTENT TO IMMIGRATE documents, wow.

lololol they ask people for a year's worth of communication, photographs, emails, phone records...and upload 1 request button with a 5mb max....its the way they make our lives hell.

 

[dw33]

You are aware that a criminal check is hardly ever going to catch immigration fraud? They're mostly different concepts.



You clearly didn't read or understand my post above. Lots of people historically have attempted to arrange immigration with no intent of residing in Canada.



You cannot guarantee that. You actually have no idea. Lots and lots of files get through without additional document requests or serious issues about their relationship. With your five-year marriage and history of living together, you would likely not have issues with your relationship.



For those with reading skills, it should be clear I did not claim that, but rather the opposite.

Reading skills, innuendo!

 

[Phalos]

dw33, dont argue with armoured lololol. My job here on forum is a futurist/storm predictor, etc....I learned long time ago not to mess with board veterans.

 

[dw33]

Bring thr PFL! Kinda interested to have a look at it on gckeys, just to see what its like.