Highest level of completed education

[salih hazim]

Hello
I am applying for permanent residence in Canada under the Federal Skilled Worker Class.
In the form [IMM 0008], they ask me this question:
What is your highest level of completed education?
They give 7 options:

No secondary
Secondary
Trade
Non university certificate
Bachelor
Master
PhD

I do not know how to answer.


I have graduated from the college of medicine in 2003( Bachelor degree).
After graduation, I was enrolled in a 4 year post-graduate residency training program in the speciality of internal medicine.
This educational program is sponsored by the Arab Board for Medical Specialization.
I finished my training in 2010.
Now, I am a board certified specialist doctor.
Is my board certfication considered as a PhD degree by the Canadian Embassy for the purpose of immigration?
Will I earn 25 points for my education(PhD) or only 20 points ( Bachelor)?
Please help
Thanks in advance
Salih

 

[salih hazim]

Medical Specialty Board Certificate is a professional doctorate.
It is equivalent to the standard doctorate degree such as PhD.
It is professionally equivalent to PhD in medical specializations
The only difference is that the standard doctorates are acadamic research based degrees given by universities, while Board Certicates are professional doctorates given by boards.

So, will I earn 25 points( 6 years elementary school, 6 years secondary school, 6 years college of medicine,4 years board training)?
Do I consider my highest level of education as a PhD?
Thanks for help

 

[Thalia]

To be honest I don't know how they would credit it in Canada. What I know from here is that despite the fact that you finished medicine and you are called as a Doctor, still you don't have a PhD. I say this cause my friend is a doctor (surgeon) and she is going to start her PhD also this year, this is the academic part of her career. So the question is: is there a difference between a doctor with PhD studies and a doctor without? I think there is a big one, since the second is an MD (doctor of medicine), but I might be wrong cause it might count differently in other countries.

 

[salih hazim]

Thanks Thalia
Holding Bachelor in medicine is not a PhD. I know this.
There is no PhD in medicine.
PhD is an academic degree, while medical specilaties are professional fields.
When we finish our Bachelor( 6 years university education), we apply for post-graduate studies in different medical specialities(e.g. surgery like your friend).
These post-graduate studies involve 4 or 5 years of education and we receive Board Certificate on complesion of these studies.
This board certificate should be equivalant to academic doctorate e.g. PhD
But we do not know how it would credited for the purpose of immigration.

 

[Thalia]

Yea, because I follow my friend's steps all the way since primary school that's why I say this. And I just called her over the phone to verify. At least here and in all European countries an MD who finished his bachelor degree and his training years of expertise, is not considered a PhD holder but an MD, even if they took some extra courses. Maybe it's different in Canada?
PhD consists of a theses and a university professor as supervisor, it lasts minimum 3-4 years and you will need to support those documentation when you state that you are a PhD holder. Do those courses that you did apply to PhD rules?
And I say this not to sound bad or anything. Just imagine that you write in your file that you are a PhD holder and Canada doesn't accept it as one...then they would return your application or even worse they will give you initially a per, you will wait a few good months and then the VO is going do you problems and turn you down over such a thing, even if you really didn't need the extra 5 points that PhD gives. It would be such a shame.
Unfortunately I have nothing more useful to add, so maybe you could PM some MD seniors in this forum and ask them what is the story with your profession and what they think.
Wish you good luck!

 

[salih hazim]

Thanks for your kind reply Thalia.
Actually, I need the extra 5 points that PhD gives. Without them, I cant manage through this.
And yes, my post-graduate course did last 4 years through which I conducted a research and presented my findings as a thesis.
My research was supervised by a committee of doctors holding board certificates, some of them are professors in medical schools.
You are right, I should try to find some Md seniors and ask them.
Thanks once again for your advice.

 

[pittabread]

Hello
I am applying for permanent residence in Canada under the Federal Skilled Worker Class.
In the form [IMM 0008], they ask me this question:
What is your highest level of completed education?
They give 7 options:

No secondary
Secondary
Trade
Non university certificate
Bachelor
Master
PhD

I do not know how to answer.


I have graduated from the college of medicine in 2003( Bachelor degree).
After graduation, I was enrolled in a 4 year post-graduate residency training program in the speciality of internal medicine.
This educational program is sponsored by the Arab Board for Medical Specialization.
I finished my training in 2010.
Now, I am a board certified specialist doctor.
Is my board certfication considered as a PhD degree by the Canadian Embassy for the purpose of immigration?
Will I earn 25 points for my education(PhD) or only 20 points ( Bachelor)?
Please help
Thanks in advance
Salih

In my opinion you will get only 20 points but let others comment as well.

Thanks

 

[Ghassan.sultan]

Hi Dr Salih,
My situation exactly like your situation & I want to know if u get any satisfied answer.
If you have any idea what they will consider the Arab board training , is it an apprenticeship? what I am sure is that it is not PhD, However I sent my application considering it as an apprenticeship so I guess (& I hope so) I will get 22 point in education.
Thanks
(waiting for your reply)

Dr Ghassan

 

[Mezo2009]

Dear Ghassan and Salih,

Based on the IRPA and specifically OP6, your medical degrees are considered first level degrees and at Bachelor level. then, your 4 year training period and Arab Board is considered as Apprenticeship, however since your bachelor degree is a must pre-requisite to this apprenticeship, while this apprenticeship is not a faculty degree, you should be granted 22 points.

So, to answer Ghassan, you should get 22 points.
For Salih, you will get 22 points as well and to answer you, this won't be conisdered as PhD.

Hope this answers you both, and good luck.

This is an excerpt from OP6:

'Note: Medical doctor degrees are generally first-level university credentials, in the same way that a Bachelor of Law or a Bachelor of Science in Pharmacology is a first level, albeit ―professional‖ degree and should be awarded 20 points. If it is a second-level degree and if, for example, it belongs to a Faculty of Graduate Studies, 25 points may be awarded. If a bachelor‘s credential is a prerequisite to the credential, but the credential itself is still considered a first-level degree, then 22 points would be appropriate. It is important to refer to how the local authority responsible for educational institutions recognizes the credential: i.e., as a first-level or second-level or higher university credential.'

Cheers
Mezo

 

[Ghassan.sultan]

Dear Ghassan and Salih,

Based on the IRPA and specifically OP6, your medical degrees are considered first level degrees and at Bachelor level. then, your 4 year training period and Arab Board is considered as Apprenticeship, however since your bachelor degree is a must pre-requisite to this apprenticeship, while this apprenticeship is not a faculty degree, you should be granted 22 points.

So, to answer Ghassan, you should get 22 points.
For Salih, you will get 22 points as well and to answer you, this won't be conisdered as PhD.

Hope this answers you both, and good luck.

This is an excerpt from OP6:

'Note: Medical doctor degrees are generally first-level university credentials, in the same way that a Bachelor of Law or a Bachelor of Science in Pharmacology is a first level, albeit ―professional‖ degree and should be awarded 20 points. If it is a second-level degree and if, for example, it belongs to a Faculty of Graduate Studies, 25 points may be awarded. If a bachelor‘s credential is a prerequisite to the credential, but the credential itself is still considered a first-level degree, then 22 points would be appropriate. It is important to refer to how the local authority responsible for educational institutions recognizes the credential: i.e., as a first-level or second-level or higher university credential.'

Cheers
Mezo

Hi Mezo,
Thank you very much for your explanation. Your reply make me euphoric. This confirm that forwarding my file to VO mean that my score was 67 & I received 22 in education. Thanks again.

 

[Mezo2009]

Hi Mezo,
Thank you very much for your explanation. Your reply make me euphoric. This confirm that forwarding my file to VO mean that my score was 67 & I received 22 in education. Thanks again.

Thanks Ghassa, wish you great luck.

Yes, I noticed your input in other thread that you received your PER. Congratulations. This confirms that CIO awarded you 22 points and our understanding is correct.

Thanks for sharing your feedback.

Cheers