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Help shed some light on PR Status and Marraige Breakdown Please!

keesio

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May 16, 2012
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AAA570 said:
Really? I wasn't aware that I didn't need to report any changes in family status once I have landed..
You don't. But if your husband ever decides to try to get your PR status revoked because of misrepresentation, then CIC will find out. And if your husband provides proof that you two filed for separation a week after your landed (especially if you initiated it), then it helps his case.
 

Leon

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Agree with keesio. If/when your husband finds out that you landed on the PR visa he sponsored you for, he could report you to immigration stating that you misrepresented yourself at your landing because you did not say that you were already living separately and heading for legal separation a week later. I frankly don't know if immigration would consider revoking your PR because of that. He did sponsor you and he had not tried to withdraw his sponsorship as far as we know. You were however separated when you landed and although you were not yet legally separated, you were heading that way.

You will look a lot better to immigration if you can say that yes, you were living apart because you were having problems but you believed that you would work things out and the separation came from your husbands side and not from you.

The difference is:

1: Person lands on a spouse visa while separated, knowing fully well that the separation is final and will lead to divorce and actually making the separation legal themselves a week later.

OR

2: Person lands on a spouse visa while having maritial problems, separated but not yet believing that the marriage is over, thinking they can still save it. A few months later, their spouse is the one who makes the separation legal.

You see how 1: could be seen as misrepresentation while 2: wouldn't.

Now, what your inlaws did, changing your address by immigration without your knowledge and keeping your COPR from you was definitely not nice and may even have been against some law but that still doesn't give you the right to misrepresent yourself to CIC.

From your first post, you say you knew that your inlaws had your COPR and they may not even have had to change your address as you say the COPR arrived when you were on a trip:

I was away with my spouse visiting my family at the time that they arrived and received the news through my in laws. From that time till recently those papers remained in the hands of my in-laws who insisted to hold on to them until I was ready to go through an entry port...
The direct legal way to deal with the issue would have been to demand your COPR back from your inlaws immediately, threatening police if they did not comply. Instead you waited and waited and eventually you separated and then you decided to get your COPR re-issued.

Getting a PR visa, doesn't give you the irrevocable right to land. If your situation changes, say a skilled worker who gets married to a non-PR/non-citizen or has a baby outside Canada before landing may not land on his visa because his family composition has changed. A dependent child who gets married before landing is no longer a dependent child. In such cases, people who land anyway on that visa have misrepresented themselves and can lose their PR if immigration finds out. Granted you were not legally separated yet so your marriage status had not changed yet at the time you landed. However, if you make the separation legal so soon after landing, it will be obvious to immigration that your marriage was already over and that you knew that. Hence, they could say, you should not have landed on a spouse visa when you knew that it was over.

So does it matter to you if you stay married to him but live separately for a while longer? This is somehow affecting your life? Because frankly, it would be safer for you to leave it for a while.

In my opinion, what you did borders on misrepresentation, but because of your inlaws behaviour, I see you as having some moral rights to do what you did. However, moral rights does not mean they are legal. It's kind of like stealing something back that was stolen from you.
 

screech339

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As others have said, is it really necessary to start the separation procedure so soon? The only advantage to doing it this soon is the ability to get a divorce sooner. This is the plan for someone who wants the option to remarry as soon as possible. There are people who are happily separated but never divorce.

My aunt for example was married, separated and never gotten a divorce. Reason being is that she didn't want to share her own business with her ex come divorce. So she stayed legally separated living as common law for 40 years.

Due to poor timing if you do the separation procedure, I would suggest you live your life the way you intend to live. If and when you do find someone special, only then do you start the official separation procedure. By then the husband would probably have forgotten about you and time has passed enough that it won't raise any suspicions on CIC's part and remove your husband's credibility to claim of misrepresentation.
 

AAA570

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Jan 13, 2014
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Based on my readings and understandings is that once you have landed you are considered a permanent residence and it cannot be revoked, even if my sponsor aka spouse were to report it to CIC he would have to have proper evidence in order to simply have it investigated and that still doesn't ensure PR will be revoked..
My marriage and whole relationship throughout was by no means ever of "convenience" at all as we had to provide solid proof at the time of the application and as I still have through ,trips, pictures, emails , messages , shared property, bank accounts , friends, family members and many more ..
Also I had called CIC prior to making my decision to head to a port of entry to land and asked questions as a 3rd party, amongst those questions I remember asking the lady if the sponsor aka spouse had to be present at the time of the landing in addition to the sponsor and applicant having martial problems that was resulting in a separation and if that would have an effect on her status or application and it being reported. The response she gave was that (A) "no" the sponsor does not have to be present at the time of the landing
(B) she told me that it was not necessary that the applicant say anything at this time , but if wanted "she" could call and tell CIC just to have it updated in the system but that it did not change anything . The sponsor would still be responsible for the undertaking and that relationship breakdowns are very common in the time frame that the application is sent up until it is granted .

The issue in waiting to make the separation legal is that I am currently residing in the country in a separate residence at the moment until the separation is made legal and then they want me out of the country after that is done and have the divorce certificate mailed to me a year later. Also if the "landing" comes to their knowledge before the mutual agreement for the separation is in writing his willingness to cooperate afterwards are more unlikely .
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
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They really are incredibly manipulative, aren't they... Well, screw 'em, I say... I am a big fan of "natural justice".

However, there is one interesting point here... For an inland sponsorship "landing interview", it's my understanding that the sponsor must be present or the landing doesn't complete.

One other thing, make sure that when you do start divorce proceedings, that you claim 50% of all the marital assets.
It seems, from what you are saying, that they wanted you "out of the way" so that you couldn't claim your rights under Canadian law.

"have the divorce certificate mailed to me a year later"... Pffft...
 

Rob_TO

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Nov 7, 2012
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AAA570 said:
Based on my readings and understandings is that once you have landed you are considered a permanent residence and it cannot be revoked, even if my sponsor aka spouse were to report it to CIC he would have to have proper evidence in order to simply have it investigated and that still doesn't ensure PR will be revoked..
If an investigation is ever opened, then a PR status CAN be revoked. But only if the sponsor can prove misrepresentation. As i mentioned in earlier posts, if you ever communicated via email or left recorded phone messages confirming the decision to divorce BEFORE you landed, then CIC may believe your spouse. Imagine if they have their immigration lawyer friend also corroborate whatever story they come up with.

I'm not familiar with all the procedures of an investigation, but I imagine in most cases it is incredibly hard to prove and probably very few non-conditional PR statuses are actually revoked. You are probably safe, but just be aware of what could potentially happen.
 

AAA570

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Jan 13, 2014
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zardoz said:
They really are incredibly manipulative, aren't they... Well, screw 'em, I say... I am a big fan of "natural justice".

However, there is one interesting point here... For an inland sponsorship "landing interview", it's my understanding that the sponsor must be present or the landing doesn't complete.

One other thing, make sure that when you do start divorce proceedings, that you claim 50% of all the marital assets.
It seems, from what you are saying, that they wanted you "out of the way" so that you couldn't claim your rights under Canadian law.

You don't know the half of it .. I'm still dumbfounded by the extent of their manipulation. I remember briefly talking to an immigration lawyer just to see how I could get a hold of my COPR papers before I had them resent she was the one who provided me the CIC number and suggested I check my status through them because I did not have enough information or knowledge about my own application at the time. But I remember just sharing a thing or two that my in-laws were saying and threatening at that time and she flat out looked at me and said as someone who has studied and knows the immigration laws excuse my french but its all bullshit and I have no idea where he is getting his source of information they are just bluffing and trying to scare you.
My application was outland application , I haven't been required to participate in a landing interview.
That is my exact problem in delaying the separation agreement.. Although it was my decision to leave they are wanting me to sign under THEIR conditions .. they don't want me to claim 50% , or lawyer up and they want me out of the country. Its been a very long , stressful and uncomfortable situation to be in. Finally my spouse decided to take control of this and deal with it between us without further intervention from them and we have mutually agreed on the splitting of any and all assets. But if he found out that I have landed before that's dealt with than he may change his mind and decide no longer to cooperate or make it more difficult.
 

zardoz

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Feb 2, 2013
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If he's caved in *that* easily, I would be looking for "hidden" assets. As a divorced man (amicably in my case) I know how easy it is to try and hide assets away from the divorce lawyers/courts. I was never tempted to do so, but I know of cases where it has been done very carefully, just to make sure the spouse got very little. Be warned...
 

AAA570

Member
Jan 13, 2014
19
0
Rob_TO said:
If an investigation is ever opened, then a PR status CAN be revoked. But only if the sponsor can prove misrepresentation. As i mentioned in earlier posts, if you ever communicated via email or left recorded phone messages confirming the decision to divorce BEFORE you landed, then CIC may believe your spouse. Imagine if they have their immigration lawyer friend also corroborate whatever story they come up with.

I'm not familiar with all the procedures of an investigation, but I imagine in most cases it is incredibly hard to prove and probably very few non-conditional PR statuses are actually revoked. You are probably safe, but just be aware of what could potentially happen.
I understand what you are saying and wouldn't put it past them if they had it their way they would try to ensure that I am left with nothing .. But legally speaking their immigration lawyer should have made sure I received those papers or shouldn't have altered the information aka address on my application. I haven't left phone messages or emails saying such things but we have been having issues for a few months now and there has been talk of it. Also upon possible investigation I can surely prove this was never a marriage of convenience and as some of the other member's have suggested since it was not already made legal or in writing at the time of my landing I could still state that and say that yes we have been having issues but nothing was made legal yet ..
 

AAA570

Member
Jan 13, 2014
19
0
zardoz said:
If he's caved in *that* easily, I would be looking for "hidden" assets. As a divorced man (amicably in my case) I know how easy it is to try and hide assets away from the divorce lawyers/courts. I was never tempted to do so, but I know of cases where it has been done very carefully, just to make sure the spouse got very little. Be warned...
Sad to say but I wouldn't be surprised and very would expect this

To be honest I am willing to settle with less than 50% as long as I am not left emptied handed if It reduces court and lawyer complications and I will find a job to build myself and my life back up the way that I want it. In all of this I just want everyone to part their own ways and let live.

I know I have a strong case but lack the financial support to hire a lawyer and this family is very well off and they play very dirty.. I was never permitted to study or work throughout the length of my relationship .. So I have no way to stand on my own two feet if I did I wouldn't even be interested in what I know I am legally entitled to .. It would be goodbye and good riddance.
 

SenoritaBella

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Sounds like you feel hopeless and afraid. But you need to turn that into faith, hope and become proactive. There are lawyers who don't charge fees until you get a settlement - search on google and make calls. At minimum, get a lawyer to read the settlement documents BEFORE you sign it.

You may have a claim for spousal support(alimony) too - you were not working, didn't go to school, so don't have skills to enter the workforce immediately and you want to have the standard of life you became accustomed to. You are also entitled to 50% of all assets accumulated during the marriage. The only thing worse would be to be divorced and have no money to support yourself. If I was a lawyer, I would represent you for free.

That said, the final decision is yours. Hope it works out well for you.

AAA570 said:
Sad to say but I wouldn't be surprised and very would expect this

To be honest I am willing to settle with less than 50% as long as I am not left emptied handed if It reduces court and lawyer complications and I will build myself and my life back up the way that I want it. I am a hard worker in all of this I just want everyone to part their own ways and let live.

I know I have a strong case but lack the financial support to hire a lawyer and this family is very well off and they play very dirty.. I was never permitted to study or work throughout the length of my relationship .. So I have no way to stand on my own two feet if I did I wouldn't even be interested in what I know I am legally entitled to .. It would be goodbye and good riddance.
 

keesio

VIP Member
May 16, 2012
4,795
396
Toronto, Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
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Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
09-01-2013
Doc's Request.
09-07-2013
AOR Received.
30-01-2013
File Transfer...
11-02-2013
Med's Done....
02-01-2013
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
12-07-2013
VISA ISSUED...
15-08-2013
LANDED..........
14-10-2013
If you use a lawyer as your representative, I believe that all communication goes through them, does it not? That includes COPR where it gets mailed to the lawyer. Most likely the lawyer got it sent to him/her and handed it over to your in-laws.

In any case, my advice of laying low stands. Stay married. Let him initiate everything. Looks good for you. If some length of time passes before anything happens, I'd say you are in the clear and there is nothing he can do to get your PR revoked.
 

Leon

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If they want you out of the country, it might be a good idea to pretend to them that you are leaving and let them find out in time (or not) that you haven't. Give them the address of some relative back home to send your mail to if they receive any. They will be happy thinking they won and you will be even happier. Moving from the address known to them to some other apartment or even another part of town might be a good idea.

If you feel that you must initiate the legal separation now in order to get your share, just be aware that if they put in a complaint against you and immigration starts to investigate, it looks bad for you. It doesn't matter if your marriage was not a marriage of convenience. It is a question of the marriage possibly having ended before you landed and if you should have reported that to them when you landed.
 

screech339

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I have to agree with leon's assessment on separation. If you do go ahead with the separation process this soon after landing, I'm afraid CIC may view your action of landing with malice, to get back at your husband. CIC would favorable accept whatever cooked up story your husband/inlaws/their lawyer over your word. It is hard to deny 3 "credible" witness statements over yours alone.
 

Leon

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If it came down to it, you might still be able to defend your PR because you were not legally separated when you landed and therefore there was no official change of status but if immigration decides to go after you, it would be a lot of hassle to go through and it would take time and money and it would be very stressful. Therefore, you give yourself a little edge in the scenario if you do not get legally separated so soon.