Have to see a judge: 11 days short

[Seemp]

Hi everyone.

Happy New Year!
In 2009 I moved to Canada from Europe on a tourist status first to live with my now husband. He sponsored me 3 months later. To extend my visitors visa we took a trip to see friends in the US. Called CIC before and they told us, it was totally legit. I received PR March 31st, applied for Canadian Citizenship in 2013 after doing the English test. Was asked to come for the test I was the first one to finish in 40 seconds. But my heart was completely broken when the woman at the desk told me there were some discrepancies with my dates and the system did not show the same date of entry. Since I left the country, the second entry was taken as the landing date. Apparently she could not see my first entry in the system but she didn't want to say. She just said: "I see the stamps here in your passport, just not...."
The residence Calculator threw me off since it asks "What is the first day you came to Canada to live". Long story short : I am 11 days short. The woman was very nice and tried a lot of things, called people and went to see her superior about it and made a note for the judge. She told me my file, although otherwise flawless, had been flagged from the get go and now I understand why I got the RQ. The whole room doing the test that day had to see a judge turns out. Besides my days everything is perfect, tests, income, credit score, English etc. The lawyer I called just told me nobody in his office is doing Citizenship cases any more and that I should not bother getting legal support on this.

Currently I am abroad for 8 months for my husbands work and send CIC a letter to that effect. Since my husband is Canadian I will keep having a RP as long as we are married, but I just wanted the Citizenship so much. I am so worried about it. I was even thinking of pulling this one and applying again. My husband doesn't agree. Anyone any words of advise for me? Greatly appreciate all your help. Thanks, Seemp

 

[rayman_m]

In most cases if you are short of 1095 days CJ refuses unless otherwise exception and even CJ hearing schedule is a delayed process. You have option to withdraw and reapply as your reason is valid. You can attach letter explaining your mistake on residency calculation. New process may take 6-7 month to process.. Rest is up to you..Other members can also advise you on their different opinion.. Judge which is best for you..

 

[hht]

I'm really sorry for your experience. see if you pull your application and apply again, this will trigger RQ, which is ok since you already got one and this way you wont have to wait for the judge " i think".
on the other hand, immigration Canada made some reforms to expedite the process and this you don't have to wait that long but still the judge might reject the application. at this point only you can make this decision.
if i was in your shoes and my application is 11 days short i would withdraw it and apply again before bill c-24 takes effect. however, if it is cic mistake because they couldn't get the correct dates from CBSA i would wait for the judge " especially if I'm traveling for 8 months".
again this just my personal opinion and its not a legal advice. its better if you contact a citizenship lawyer to get an advice.
Good luck

 

[screech339]

If the days was a day or 2 short, then I would consider going to judge. But having 11 days short to qualify seems too big a gap for a judge to grant you path to citizenship.

I would seriously consider withdrawing the application and re submitting it when you do in fact meet 1095 days before the new 1460 days qualification kick in sometime in middle of this year.

Screech339

 

[desigirltoronto84]

If the days was a day or 2 short, then I would consider going to judge. But having 11 days short to qualify seems too big a gap for a judge to grant you path to citizenship.

I would seriously consider withdrawing the application and re submitting it when you do in fact meet 1095 days before the new 1460 days qualification kick in sometime in middle of this year.

Screech339

I agree with Screech.

 

[Goldline]

I'm not sure withdrawing the application is an option in this case because she's abroad for i don't know how long( 8 months??) so she will need to make up not only for the 11 days but for the time she spent overseas after submitting the application as well. Will she have enough time before the coming into force of the new law??

 

[screech339]

I'm not sure withdrawing the application is an option in this case because she's abroad for i don't know how long( 8 months??) so she will need to make up not only for the 11 days but for the time she spent overseas after submitting the application as well. Will she have enough time before the coming into force of the new law??

And you wondered why the "intend to reside clause" was added to bill c-24. This is added to stop the abuse of leaving Canada after submitting the application. Had the OP actually stayed in Canada while application is in process, it would be easily able to cancel and resubmit since missing 11 days can easily be compensated.

In any case, the outcome result will likely not be in the OP's favour. OP would likely want to go ahead with the judge and hope for the best as otherwise, the OP would have to probably wait another 8 months (for time spent abroad) plus additional 1 year wait on top of it to meet the new 1460 days requirement. I can see why the OP would hope that the path is granted.

Screech339

 

[MUFC]

The applicant has to be sure that he has the required days before he apply for citizenship. If the days of physical presence are short, well the applicant is not eligible to apply for citizenship on a first place.

They are absolutely keen about the physical presence before the application is submitted. Here that criteria is not fulfilled.

 

[arambi]

"if i was in your shoes and my application is 11 days short i would withdraw it and apply again before bill c-24 takes effect"

I second the above statement. If you meet the 1095 days in the last 4 years requirement, you are better off re-applying before bill c-24 residency requirement (including intent to resid) takes effect

With that said, I see some people recommending that you withdraw the current applicaton in order to file a new one. I don't think you have to do that. I believe you can file another application and have both processed: however, you HAVE TO indicate in a letter to CIC that you want them to keep processing BOTH applications

Please read below materials and provide your comments


I came accross this critcial policy from CIC website:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/admin/general/multiple.asp


"Overview
▼ Background
Applicants for citizenship services must submit an appropriate application form with the prescribed fees, evidence and materials in order to be granted citizenship, to obtain proof of citizenship or to retain, renounce or resume citizenship. In some cases, persons may apply for a citizenship service when they already have an earlier application being processed by CIC or which is in litigation. Multiple applications filed by the same client often cause difficulties in processing, resulting in confusion for the client and the local office, and increased status inquiries to the Call Centre.

When an applicant submits more than one application before an earlier application is finally and formally dispensed with, CIC must determine whether the later application should be processed at the same time as the earlier application is being finalized.

▼ Policy
CIC has an obligation to avoid duplication of work or unnecessary costs in the processing of an application. Unless a client specifically requests CIC to process two or more applications at the same time, all applications will be held by CIC until processing on the initial application is completed. Applicants are encouraged to submit new applications only if they have new facts or evidence."

 

[screech339]

"if i was in your shoes and my application is 11 days short i would withdraw it and apply again before bill c-24 takes effect"

I second the above statement. If you meet the 1095 days in the last 4 years requirement, you are better off re-applying before bill c-24 residency requirement (including intent to resid) takes effect

With that said, I see some people recommending that you withdraw the current applicaton in order to file a new one. I don't think you have to do that. I believe you can file another application and have both processed: however, you HAVE TO indicate in a letter to CIC that you want them to keep processing BOTH applications

Please read below materials and provide your comments


I came accross this critcial policy from CIC website:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/admin/general/multiple.asp


"Overview
▼ Background
Applicants for citizenship services must submit an appropriate application form with the prescribed fees, evidence and materials in order to be granted citizenship, to obtain proof of citizenship or to retain, renounce or resume citizenship. In some cases, persons may apply for a citizenship service when they already have an earlier application being processed by CIC or which is in litigation. Multiple applications filed by the same client often cause difficulties in processing, resulting in confusion for the client and the local office, and increased status inquiries to the Call Centre.

When an applicant submits more than one application before an earlier application is finally and formally dispensed with, CIC must determine whether the later application should be processed at the same time as the earlier application is being finalized.

▼ Policy
CIC has an obligation to avoid duplication of work or unnecessary costs in the processing of an application. Unless a client specifically requests CIC to process two or more applications at the same time, all applications will be held by CIC until processing on the initial application is completed. Applicants are encouraged to submit new applications only if they have new facts or evidence."

I may be wrong but I don't think you are even allowed to have two separate citizenship applications for yourself going at same time.

 

[arambi]

I may be wrong but I don't think you are even allowed to have two separate citizenship applications for yourself going at same time.

Could you read the materials under below link and then advise?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/admin/general/multiple.asp

 

[screech339]

Could you read the materials under below link and then advise?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/admin/general/multiple.asp

I apologized for my earlier comment. I think this situation calls for circumstances whereby the first application may have documentations that fails the residency requirement and you are submitting a new one with documentations that prove you in fact meet the qualification requirements.

In the OP's case, the first application has been proven with documentation that the OP clearly didn't meet the residency requirement. Missed it by 11 days. By submitting a new application now, the OP still have to meet the 3 / 4 requirement from the time of the new application date. The OP may be able to do this if the 8 missing months outside Canada doesn't affect the 1095 days physical requirement for the new application.

 

[thecoolguysam]

Thats the reason why it is always suggested to have 2 weeks to 8 weeks buffer before submitting the application.

I have 2 months buffer in my case.

Looking at OP post, the issue that happened to her could have happened with other people too thus submitting application after some buffer can overcome such issues

 

[Seemp]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your advise and your patience with this. Just a few things, I had a buffer, this is why I'm not short longer. After my application I stayed in Canada for another 9 months before my husband and I moved abroad. It was not our initial plan and not much of a choice really, he had to solve things for his sick father in the family business which he couldn't do any longer from a distance. Through friends I found a temp consulting job which has already ended. In Canada I also own a house with my husband that has practically all my money in it to live when we come back. My husband still has his business in Canada as well which is a task to manage from here. All in all it's more of an obligation than an opportunity to be abroad.

Initially at my test date CIC told me it might take only a few weeks for me to see the judge since it's such an open and shut case with just one little error and they might grand it without seeing me. Now it has been over 6 months and I think she was just saying something random. The other day an article said CIC is full of temp workers not really knowing the proceedings that well. Or maybe she felt sorry for me since I was in tears
It is all about the initial half time when I first came there. The time before your RP. I usually call CIC 3 times with the same question because not every time it's consistent and they told me that all my time in Canada before my RP was eligible for half time. When I do the residency questionnaire now it says my days are enough but my absence is too long and I'm eligible for Citizenship in 2018.

Two things:
- If I put in another application with new information, can I do it in retrospect? Meaning the same dates plus a month to be safe?
- Could the C24 actually work for me since I can use all the time I spend in Canada in 2009 and go back 6 years which will total me almost complete when we go back and apply after I have been there for a year or so?

 

[eltorpe]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your advise and your patience with this. Just a few things, I had a buffer, this is why I'm not short longer. After my application I stayed in Canada for another 9 months before my husband and I moved abroad. It was not our initial plan and not much of a choice really, he had to solve things for his sick father in the family business which he couldn't do any longer from a distance. Through friends I found a temp consulting job which has already ended. In Canada I also own a house with my husband that has practically all my money in it to live when we come back. My husband still has his business in Canada as well which is a task to manage from here. All in all it's more of an obligation than an opportunity to be abroad.

Initially at my test date CIC told me it might take only a few weeks for me to see the judge since it's such an open and shut case with just one little error and they might grand it without seeing me. Now it has been over 6 months and I think she was just saying something random. The other day an article said CIC is full of temp workers not really knowing the proceedings that well. Or maybe she felt sorry for me since I was in tears
It is all about the initial half time when I first came there. The time before your RP. I usually call CIC 3 times with the same question because not every time it's consistent and they told me that all my time in Canada before my RP was eligible for half time. When I do the residency questionnaire now it says my days are enough but my absence is too long and I'm eligible for Citizenship in 2018.

Two things:
- If I put in another application with new information, can I do it in retrospect? Meaning the same dates plus a month to be safe?
- Could the C24 actually work for me since I can use all the time I spend in Canada in 2009 and go back 6 years which will total me almost complete when we go back and apply after I have been there for a year or so?

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Unfortunately, CIC will not accept a staledated application. A staledated application will be returned. See http://www.cic.gc.ca/English/resources/tools/cit/admin/general/accept.asp:

An application is staledated when the Minister receives the application 91 days after the signature date indicated on the form. Staledated applications are returned to the applicant at the time the kit is received. If an application is received by CIC, and returned to the applicant several times during processing (e.g., for incompleteness), the applicant must be instructed to re-sign the application each time it is being re-submitted. The last signature date on the application becomes the date used to determine application validity.

With Bill C-24, only the time since becoming a PR will count so keep that in mind if you plan to apply under the new requirement:

(c) is a permanent resident within the meaning of subsection 2(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, has, subject to the regulations, no unfulfilled conditions under that Act relating to his or her status as a permanent resident and has, since becoming a permanent resident,
(i) been physically present in Canada for at least 1,460 days during the six years immediately before the date of his or her application,
(ii) been physically present in Canada for at least 183 days during each of four calendar years that are fully or partially within the six years immediately before the date of his or her application, and
(iii) met any applicable requirement under the Income Tax Act to file a return of income in respect of four taxation years that are fully or partially within the six years immediately before the date of his or her application;

(Source: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-29/nifnev.html)

Also note the part about having to be present in Canada at least 183 days during each of the four calendar years as well as the requirement to file a tax return for those years.