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Has anyone received help from their MP in getting IRCC to do their jobs?

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
For general consumption: this post is aimed at reinforcing the conventional wisdom about waiting to apply with a decent margin of days IN Canada over the minimum requirement. It is simply foolish to not wait at least ten days or so, which is the lower end of how-big the margin should be; as I have oft noted, my sense suggests at least a month for most, and longer for some.

This is not about how things should be, but a reminder that even though exactly 1095 days is enough, just playing the odds waiting longer to apply can mean taking the oath sooner. Make no mistake, cutting-it-close increases the risk of RQ-related non-routine processing and delays.

It doesn't matter one bit if you're 2 days over the requirement or 2000 days, you meet the requirement.
And it does not matter . . . but that is only once the applicant has met the burden of proving that they were in fact physically present in Canada at least 1095 days within the five year eligibility period.

Until the evidence submitted meets that burden of proof, any and all factors which are considered in weighing the evidence remain relevant. Cutting-it-close simply, rather obviously, increases risks of questions which can trigger non-routine processing and delays; cutting-it-close makes it more imperative that IRCC examine and evaluate the evidence more extensively to meet their mandate to verify the applicant's presence (and other eligibility requirements).

Fortunately for applicants, IRCC does not see a need to actually verify every single one of the days the applicant reports being in Canada. Even though the statute does require the applicant to prove actual presence for at least 1095 days.

Very few of us could easily prove where we were actually located every day. Every applicant relies on IRCC to make some inferences about many if not most of the days in between days-certain-in-Canada. Days at work, at the dentist, at the doctor, and so on, are typical days for which there is direct and objective evidence the individual was actually physically present in Canada those days. For most of us, there are a lot of other days in-between those days for which we do not have direct objective evidence to show we were in fact actually physically in Canada that day.

Remember, all the travel history actually proves is that the applicant was in Canada the day of entry and the date of exit, and that does NOT prove presence in Canada any of the days in-between. To some extent, the burden of proof is on the applicant to prove he or she did not leave Canada in-between those dates. Proving a negative is very difficult. So, if there is any "reason-to-question-residency" IRCC requires the applicant to more fully document and prove actual presence in Canada during the days in-between known dates of travel. Work in Canada for a known employer at a known facility tends to be among the strongest forms of evidence, but even that typically leaves a lot of days unaccounted for. So, again, it is fortunate that IRCC will indeed make "reasonable inferences" about an applicant's likely location for days other than those the applicant has direct evidence of presence in Canada.

Indeed, actually the vast majority of qualified applicants benefit from IRCC seeing enough corroborating evidence in the application itself, the work and address history looming large, to make a positive inference that the applicant was indeed IN Canada days between a known entry date and the next reported exit date. But not every applicant gets the benefit of this inference, at least not until IRCC has made inquiries verifying some information, and then if in the course of that there appears to be any "reason-to-question-residency," then that inference carries less weight, more proof of actual presence is required, and the process can get very bogged down.

For some reason, the fact that travel dates do not actually prove presence in Canada for those in-between days seems to be much under-estimated; and the fact that the determination the applicant met the physical presence requirement is so dependent on an inference of days in-between tends to be overlooked.

Except when an applicant with a more complicated travel history, and who appears to POSSIBLY have continuing work or residential ties abroad, applies cutting-it-close (one among various scenarios elevating the risk of RQ-related non-routine processing), and they notice other applicants who applied around the same time are progressing through the process ahead of them, and then the questions come, and the request for additional information, and the timeline grows longer and longer.

Yeah, I know, I use a lot of words to say something quite simple: but make no mistake, yes, cutting-it-close increases the risk of delays in processing a citizenship application, so waiting to have a decent margin before applying is the prudent approach. Which is the conventional wisdom. Which, however, is still sometimes disputed or derided. Demanding a reminder of why this is the conventional wisdom.
 

MrChazz

Hero Member
May 4, 2021
247
226
For general consumption: this post is aimed at reinforcing the conventional wisdom about waiting to apply with a decent margin of days IN Canada over the minimum requirement. It is simply foolish to not wait at least ten days or so, which is the lower end of how-big the margin should be; as I have oft noted, my sense suggests at least a month for most, and longer for some.

This is not about how things should be, but a reminder that even though exactly 1095 days is enough, just playing the odds waiting longer to apply can mean taking the oath sooner. Make no mistake, cutting-it-close increases the risk of RQ-related non-routine processing and delays.



And it does not matter . . . but that is only once the applicant has met the burden of proving that they were in fact physically present in Canada at least 1095 days within the five year eligibility period.

Until the evidence submitted meets that burden of proof, any and all factors which are considered in weighing the evidence remain relevant. Cutting-it-close simply, rather obviously, increases risks of questions which can trigger non-routine processing and delays; cutting-it-close makes it more imperative that IRCC examine and evaluate the evidence more extensively to meet their mandate to verify the applicant's presence (and other eligibility requirements).

Fortunately for applicants, IRCC does not see a need to actually verify every single one of the days the applicant reports being in Canada. Even though the statute does require the applicant to prove actual presence for at least 1095 days.

Very few of us could easily prove where we were actually located every day. Every applicant relies on IRCC to make some inferences about many if not most of the days in between days-certain-in-Canada. Days at work, at the dentist, at the doctor, and so on, are typical days for which there is direct and objective evidence the individual was actually physically present in Canada those days. For most of us, there are a lot of other days in-between those days for which we do not have direct objective evidence to show we were in fact actually physically in Canada that day.

Remember, all the travel history actually proves is that the applicant was in Canada the day of entry and the date of exit, and that does NOT prove presence in Canada any of the days in-between. To some extent, the burden of proof is on the applicant to prove he or she did not leave Canada in-between those dates. Proving a negative is very difficult. So, if there is any "reason-to-question-residency" IRCC requires the applicant to more fully document and prove actual presence in Canada during the days in-between known dates of travel. Work in Canada for a known employer at a known facility tends to be among the strongest forms of evidence, but even that typically leaves a lot of days unaccounted for. So, again, it is fortunate that IRCC will indeed make "reasonable inferences" about an applicant's likely location for days other than those the applicant has direct evidence of presence in Canada.

Indeed, actually the vast majority of qualified applicants benefit from IRCC seeing enough corroborating evidence in the application itself, the work and address history looming large, to make a positive inference that the applicant was indeed IN Canada days between a known entry date and the next reported exit date. But not every applicant gets the benefit of this inference, at least not until IRCC has made inquiries verifying some information, and then if in the course of that there appears to be any "reason-to-question-residency," then that inference carries less weight, more proof of actual presence is required, and the process can get very bogged down.

For some reason, the fact that travel dates do not actually prove presence in Canada for those in-between days seems to be much under-estimated; and the fact that the determination the applicant met the physical presence requirement is so dependent on an inference of days in-between tends to be overlooked.

Except when an applicant with a more complicated travel history, and who appears to POSSIBLY have continuing work or residential ties abroad, applies cutting-it-close (one among various scenarios elevating the risk of RQ-related non-routine processing), and they notice other applicants who applied around the same time are progressing through the process ahead of them, and then the questions come, and the request for additional information, and the timeline grows longer and longer.

Yeah, I know, I use a lot of words to say something quite simple: but make no mistake, yes, cutting-it-close increases the risk of delays in processing a citizenship application, so waiting to have a decent margin before applying is the prudent approach. Which is the conventional wisdom. Which, however, is still sometimes disputed or derided. Demanding a reminder of why this is the conventional wisdom.
And it does not matter . . . but that is only once the applicant has met the burden of proving that they were in fact physically present in Canada at least 1095 days within the five year eligibility period.

Correct. And such a long message to say just that? :)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: fr72

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
So the conclusion is:

1. Either wait 2000 days of residence in Canada before applying 'just to be safe'.

2. Or apply in a non-OCD manner and still wait 2000 days because IRCC doesn't trust you or its own data.

Now just waiting for someone to come along and ask "Unless you are trying to live abroad, why do you need citizenship at all?"
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
So the conclusion is:

1. Either wait 2000 days of residence in Canada before applying 'just to be safe'.

2. Or apply in a non-OCD manner and still wait 2000 days because IRCC doesn't trust you or its own data.
No, not close. Not anywhere near close. After all, applicants cannot even apply with 2000 days of actual presence credit. Not since October 2017.

And it does not matter . . . but that is only once the applicant has met the burden of proving that they were in fact physically present in Canada at least 1095 days within the five year eligibility period.

Correct. And such a long message to say just that? :)
Well, seems some need more detail, to have things more fully explained. Obviously cognitive functionality varies.

After all, I acknowledged taking so many words to explain something rather simple. But that is not what you got from it.

Sometimes a little repetition can help:

Yeah, I know, I use a lot of words to say something quite simple: but make no mistake, yes, cutting-it-close increases the risk of delays in processing a citizenship application, so waiting to have a decent margin before applying is the prudent approach. Which is the conventional wisdom. Which, however, is still sometimes disputed or derided. Demanding a reminder of why this is the conventional wisdom.​
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
No, not close. Not anywhere near close. After all, applicants cannot even apply with 2000 days of actual presence credit. Not since October 2017.
Sure, but why not be 'safe'? After all, IRCC has access to your records well before 5 years if you have been here. There might be a Harper devotee sitting somewhere near your file! Be afraid.
 

Moustafa33918

Full Member
Jun 29, 2021
35
6
Oh boy...here comes another 10,000 word answer on why its always the applicant's fault.
We need to add an officer from IRCC to give us the real answers, no speculation. No one has a clue how do they work and why some applications takes longer than others
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Sure, but why not be 'safe'? After all, IRCC has access to your records well before 5 years if you have been here. There might be a Harper devotee sitting somewhere near your file! Be afraid.
Well, even allowing for the sarcasm and innuendo, which gets old but oh well, the insinuation is just plain wrong. Couching the fearmongering in supercilious mockery does not mitigate its perniciousness let alone how utterly misleading it is. Contrary to the more troll-oriented and scatological-laden derision, the often gross mischaracterizations of IRCC and the processing of citizenship applications, it is not a circus, it is not arbitrary or capricious, it is not random.

Which is not to ignore its flaws. Apart from the fact that bureaucracies are inherently burdened with process handicaps, and IRCC regrettably has more than its share of deficiencies, aggravated in times like this due to the difficulty a bureaucracy like this has adapting, in addition to all that, even some aspects of the laws themselves are problematic and contribute to the miscarriage of justice (there is a 2012 amendment in IRPA, for example, which is especially unjust in how it directly affects some refugees applying for citizenship, pursuant to which some applications are held up for more than four or five years, some ten years plus, and at least one was in limbo for two decades).

But NO, absolutely NOT, the vast majority of qualified applicants who properly submit a complete and accurate application do not need to be "afraid," not at all. There is no need for the qualified applicant to go much out of their way at all "to be safe." Waiting ten more days, or a month, to make the application is just plain good sense and no major imposition. Makes it easier for IRCC officials. Good odds it might mean taking the oath sooner. Not complicated. Not difficult. Mostly common sense.

It is like filing tax returns. Keep good records. Do the homework. Properly do the paperwork. Follow the rules. And even though CRA, which like IRCC is another large Canadian bureaucracy with more than its share of wrinkles in the fabric, will slip here and there, so sure some of us will suffer things going off the rails. It happens. With CRA or IRCC. But even when that does happen, with IRCC, the qualified applicant who properly submitted a complete and accurate application does not need to be "afraid" how it is going to turn out, which is not to minimize the inconvenience encountered or to justify the delay it causes, but rather to put the process and the risks in fair context, especially against those who propagandize and blow things way out of proportion.

We need to add an officer from IRCC to give us the real answers, no speculation. No one has a clue how do they work and why some applications takes longer than others
There are many reliable sources of information about how the process really works, not the least of which are official ones like the Citizenship Act and published Federal Court decisions describing how the law and rules apply in actual cases.

Just in terms of navigating the applicable PDIs and related IRCC information, the following webpages have links to a great deal of information providing, as you suggest "real answers, no speculation:"

Page with general links to IRCC Operational instructions and guidelines:

Of course it takes a real effort to read and analyze this information in context, cognizant of the statutory provisions themselves, due consideration given to Federal Court interpretation and application of the law and rules in actual cases, and also taking into consideration the vast body of anecdotal reporting (recognizing the limitations of their reliability) available, including here in this forum.

Opinions vary, of course, but not all opinions are created equal. There is a reason why people take a car with problems to a mechanic, not a heart surgeon; and the other way around.

This part of your post, however, deserves more attention:
"No one has a clue how do they work and why some applications takes longer than others"​

This is just plain NOT true. Again, there is a ton of information available.

There are limits to what we know, and even more imposing limits on what can be forecast or predicted about how things will go for individual applicants.

Part of the difficulty, it is true, is that no one can reliably forecast just how things will go for a particular applicant. Stuff-happens. Even the best case can go off the rails. Even a totally fraudulent case can slip through easily without a snag.

But there is more than enough information to map what increases certain risks, and some fairly reliable conventional wisdom about what can help (no guarantee, but can help) lower some risks. No advanced degrees in quantum mechanics necessary, for example, to correlate increasing risk of reasons-to-question-residency with an application cutting-it-close, especially if there are other widely known, for real, no speculation necessary, risk factors.

The drumbeat of misinformation in this forum can be a challenge. But many legitimate PRs applying for citizenship or planning to apply for citizenship come here hoping to get some information and insight they might use to improve how things go. To my view it is also important for the forum to help reduce unnecessary anxiety levels for applicants and prospective applicants.

So, not every instance of misinformation can be countered by legitimate information, but I hope at least occasionally flagging the BS for what it is can help those who are indeed looking to know more about how to navigate the process.

For now, some of the misinformation posted here which is not true includes:

It doesn't matter one bit if you're 2 days over the requirement or 2000 days, you meet the requirement.

NOT true. A margin of just a few weeks can significantly reduce the risk of non-routine processing and delays. No guarantee. But better odds.

"wait 2000 days of residence in Canada before applying 'just to be safe'"​

Probably an insincere missive intended to be derisive, but just to be clear, credit for that number of days is simply not possible (well, it is for an application made between June 2015 and October 2017).

"Be afraid."​

No. No need to be afraid. Be prudent. Be prepared. Keep good records. Follow the instructions.

Finally this also calls for some clarification:

My MP's office contacted IRCC, who confirmed that the application is "in progress and awaiting citizenship test", this is news to me, because the online service for checking the status shows "language skills", "physical presence", and "prohibitions" all still "In progress". My assumption is that these three components are in fact complete, but they won't be marked as such until a test appointment is made available to me.
There is no way verification of the applicant's "language skills" can be "complete" until, at the very earliest, the knowledge of Canada test is passed. The knowledge of Canada test is part of the process for verifying the applicant has the requisite language skills.

Similarly, there is no formal decision-making as to verifying "physical presence" until, at the earliest, the test stage; except for the impact of current measures implemented due to Covid, this verification was never complete until the applicant had passed the interview (which, but for the virtual test scheme temporarily in place, is also part of the process for verifying the applicant has the requisite language skills).

In contrast, since the RCMP and CSIS background checks are done separately, in parallel, rather than in sequence with other citizenship application processing, yes it is common for those to be complete and returned to the file by RCMP and CSIS respectively, but not reflected as complete in the GCMS. Anyone expecting to glean some idea about how much longer their application will be in process based on the status of the "prohibitions" element, or the background clearances, is chasing ghosts. With rare exception, these are not a factor in how long the process will be. And even if ostensibly complete, these are NEVER truly, fully complete until just before the oath is taken . . . there will be at least more more background clearance done just before the applicant takes the oath.
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
Well, even allowing for the sarcasm and innuendo, which gets old but oh well, the insinuation is just plain wrong. Couching the fearmongering in supercilious mockery does not mitigate its perniciousness let alone how utterly misleading it is. Contrary to the more troll-oriented and scatological-laden derision, the often gross mischaracterizations of IRCC and the processing of citizenship applications, it is not a circus, it is not arbitrary or capricious, it is not random.

Which is not to ignore its flaws. Apart from the fact that bureaucracies are inherently burdened with process handicaps, and IRCC regrettably has more than its share of deficiencies, aggravated in times like this due to the difficulty a bureaucracy like this has adapting, in addition to all that, even some aspects of the laws themselves are problematic and contribute to the miscarriage of justice (there is a 2012 amendment in IRPA, for example, which is especially unjust in how it directly affects some refugees applying for citizenship, pursuant to which some applications are held up for more than four or five years, some ten years plus, and at least one was in limbo for two decades).

But NO, absolutely NOT, the vast majority of qualified applicants who properly submit a complete and accurate application do not need to be "afraid," not at all. There is no need for the qualified applicant to go much out of their way at all "to be safe." Waiting ten more days, or a month, to make the application is just plain good sense and no major imposition. Makes it easier for IRCC officials. Good odds it might mean taking the oath sooner. Not complicated. Not difficult. Mostly common sense.

It is like filing tax returns. Keep good records. Do the homework. Properly do the paperwork. Follow the rules. And even though CRA, which like IRCC is another large Canadian bureaucracy with more than its share of wrinkles in the fabric, will slip here and there, so sure some of us will suffer things going off the rails. It happens. With CRA or IRCC. But even when that does happen, with IRCC, the qualified applicant who properly submitted a complete and accurate application does not need to be "afraid" how it is going to turn out, which is not to minimize the inconvenience encountered or to justify the delay it causes, but rather to put the process and the risks in fair context, especially against those who propagandize and blow things way out of proportion.



There are many reliable sources of information about how the process really works, not the least of which are official ones like the Citizenship Act and published Federal Court decisions describing how the law and rules apply in actual cases.

Just in terms of navigating the applicable PDIs and related IRCC information, the following webpages have links to a great deal of information providing, as you suggest "real answers, no speculation:"

Page with general links to IRCC Operational instructions and guidelines:

Of course it takes a real effort to read and analyze this information in context, cognizant of the statutory provisions themselves, due consideration given to Federal Court interpretation and application of the law and rules in actual cases, and also taking into consideration the vast body of anecdotal reporting (recognizing the limitations of their reliability) available, including here in this forum.

Opinions vary, of course, but not all opinions are created equal. There is a reason why people take a car with problems to a mechanic, not a heart surgeon; and the other way around.

This part of your post, however, deserves more attention:
"No one has a clue how do they work and why some applications takes longer than others"​

This is just plain NOT true. Again, there is a ton of information available.

There are limits to what we know, and even more imposing limits on what can be forecast or predicted about how things will go for individual applicants.

Part of the difficulty, it is true, is that no one can reliably forecast just how things will go for a particular applicant. Stuff-happens. Even the best case can go off the rails. Even a totally fraudulent case can slip through easily without a snag.

But there is more than enough information to map what increases certain risks, and some fairly reliable conventional wisdom about what can help (no guarantee, but can help) lower some risks. No advanced degrees in quantum mechanics necessary, for example, to correlate increasing risk of reasons-to-question-residency with an application cutting-it-close, especially if there are other widely known, for real, no speculation necessary, risk factors.

The drumbeat of misinformation in this forum can be a challenge. But many legitimate PRs applying for citizenship or planning to apply for citizenship come here hoping to get some information and insight they might use to improve how things go. To my view it is also important for the forum to help reduce unnecessary anxiety levels for applicants and prospective applicants.

So, not every instance of misinformation can be countered by legitimate information, but I hope at least occasionally flagging the BS for what it is can help those who are indeed looking to know more about how to navigate the process.

For now, some of the misinformation posted here which is not true includes:

It doesn't matter one bit if you're 2 days over the requirement or 2000 days, you meet the requirement.

NOT true. A margin of just a few weeks can significantly reduce the risk of non-routine processing and delays. No guarantee. But better odds.

"wait 2000 days of residence in Canada before applying 'just to be safe'"​

Probably an insincere missive intended to be derisive, but just to be clear, credit for that number of days is simply not possible (well, it is for an application made between June 2015 and October 2017).

"Be afraid."​

No. No need to be afraid. Be prudent. Be prepared. Keep good records. Follow the instructions.

Finally this also calls for some clarification:



There is no way verification of the applicant's "language skills" can be "complete" until, at the very earliest, the knowledge of Canada test is passed. The knowledge of Canada test is part of the process for verifying the applicant has the requisite language skills.

Similarly, there is no formal decision-making as to verifying "physical presence" until, at the earliest, the test stage; except for the impact of current measures implemented due to Covid, this verification was never complete until the applicant had passed the interview (which, but for the virtual test scheme temporarily in place, is also part of the process for verifying the applicant has the requisite language skills).

In contrast, since the RCMP and CSIS background checks are done separately, in parallel, rather than in sequence with other citizenship application processing, yes it is common for those to be complete and returned to the file by RCMP and CSIS respectively, but not reflected as complete in the GCMS. Anyone expecting to glean some idea about how much longer their application will be in process based on the status of the "prohibitions" element, or the background clearances, is chasing ghosts. With rare exception, these are not a factor in how long the process will be. And even if ostensibly complete, these are NEVER truly, fully complete until just before the oath is taken . . . there will be at least more more background clearance done just before the applicant takes the oath.
Or maybe....unaccountable government employees are inefficient. Shocking, I know.

Here comes the wall of text explaining why thats impossible.
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
Waiting ten more days, or a month, to make the application is just plain good sense and no major imposition. Makes it easier for IRCC officials. Good odds it might mean taking the oath sooner. Not complicated. Not difficult. Mostly common sense.
Thank you captain obvious, plenty of people on this forum with the exact margins you specified are languishing for years. Whats the next groundbreaking theory you have? Is drinking adequate water everyday a good idea? Tell us, we are on the edge of our seats.

Come up with a better theory, 5000 words or less this time.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Thank you captain obvious, plenty of people on this forum with the exact margins you specified are languishing for years. Whats the next groundbreaking theory you have? Is drinking adequate water everyday a good idea? Tell us, we are on the edge of our seats.

Come up with a better theory, 5000 words or less this time.
What makes sense, sure, makes sense. But no, daily water consumption will have no correlation whatsoever to how a grant citizenship application proceeds through the process. I suppose that missive was intentionally ludicrous. Why do that escapes me.

And of course there are numerous other factors which can affect how any particular individual application proceeds through the process. It is not just about applying with a decent margin. And some prospective applicants would be prudent to indeed apply with much larger margins; since I am a sole proprietor of a business selling services exclusively abroad, I took my own advice and waited a full extra year. Could be a coincidence my application then sailed through easily and relatively quickly. But the general trend of risks is not difficult to discern and prudent applicants will pay attention and adapt accordingly.

Frankly, your objective eludes me. It appears you are deliberately engaging in mockery and derision, which is more disruptive than helpful, and makes offering genuine responses rather difficult. I offered links to numerous good resources which can help applicants understand and navigate the process. I realize that the topic here was ostensibly about the prospect of getting help from a member of Parliament, but there is a lot of good information available for applicants who are genuinely concerned and trying to make decisions related to the process. And being better informed before turning to a MP will certainly not hurt one's cause.
 

MrChazz

Hero Member
May 4, 2021
247
226
Well, even allowing for the sarcasm and innuendo, which gets old but oh well, the insinuation is just plain wrong. Couching the fearmongering in supercilious mockery does not mitigate its perniciousness let alone how utterly misleading it is. Contrary to the more troll-oriented and scatological-laden derision, the often gross mischaracterizations of IRCC and the processing of citizenship applications, it is not a circus, it is not arbitrary or capricious, it is not random.

Which is not to ignore its flaws. Apart from the fact that bureaucracies are inherently burdened with process handicaps, and IRCC regrettably has more than its share of deficiencies, aggravated in times like this due to the difficulty a bureaucracy like this has adapting, in addition to all that, even some aspects of the laws themselves are problematic and contribute to the miscarriage of justice (there is a 2012 amendment in IRPA, for example, which is especially unjust in how it directly affects some refugees applying for citizenship, pursuant to which some applications are held up for more than four or five years, some ten years plus, and at least one was in limbo for two decades).

But NO, absolutely NOT, the vast majority of qualified applicants who properly submit a complete and accurate application do not need to be "afraid," not at all. There is no need for the qualified applicant to go much out of their way at all "to be safe." Waiting ten more days, or a month, to make the application is just plain good sense and no major imposition. Makes it easier for IRCC officials. Good odds it might mean taking the oath sooner. Not complicated. Not difficult. Mostly common sense.

It is like filing tax returns. Keep good records. Do the homework. Properly do the paperwork. Follow the rules. And even though CRA, which like IRCC is another large Canadian bureaucracy with more than its share of wrinkles in the fabric, will slip here and there, so sure some of us will suffer things going off the rails. It happens. With CRA or IRCC. But even when that does happen, with IRCC, the qualified applicant who properly submitted a complete and accurate application does not need to be "afraid" how it is going to turn out, which is not to minimize the inconvenience encountered or to justify the delay it causes, but rather to put the process and the risks in fair context, especially against those who propagandize and blow things way out of proportion.



There are many reliable sources of information about how the process really works, not the least of which are official ones like the Citizenship Act and published Federal Court decisions describing how the law and rules apply in actual cases.

Just in terms of navigating the applicable PDIs and related IRCC information, the following webpages have links to a great deal of information providing, as you suggest "real answers, no speculation:"

Page with general links to IRCC Operational instructions and guidelines:

Of course it takes a real effort to read and analyze this information in context, cognizant of the statutory provisions themselves, due consideration given to Federal Court interpretation and application of the law and rules in actual cases, and also taking into consideration the vast body of anecdotal reporting (recognizing the limitations of their reliability) available, including here in this forum.

Opinions vary, of course, but not all opinions are created equal. There is a reason why people take a car with problems to a mechanic, not a heart surgeon; and the other way around.

This part of your post, however, deserves more attention:
"No one has a clue how do they work and why some applications takes longer than others"​

This is just plain NOT true. Again, there is a ton of information available.

There are limits to what we know, and even more imposing limits on what can be forecast or predicted about how things will go for individual applicants.

Part of the difficulty, it is true, is that no one can reliably forecast just how things will go for a particular applicant. Stuff-happens. Even the best case can go off the rails. Even a totally fraudulent case can slip through easily without a snag.

But there is more than enough information to map what increases certain risks, and some fairly reliable conventional wisdom about what can help (no guarantee, but can help) lower some risks. No advanced degrees in quantum mechanics necessary, for example, to correlate increasing risk of reasons-to-question-residency with an application cutting-it-close, especially if there are other widely known, for real, no speculation necessary, risk factors.

The drumbeat of misinformation in this forum can be a challenge. But many legitimate PRs applying for citizenship or planning to apply for citizenship come here hoping to get some information and insight they might use to improve how things go. To my view it is also important for the forum to help reduce unnecessary anxiety levels for applicants and prospective applicants.

So, not every instance of misinformation can be countered by legitimate information, but I hope at least occasionally flagging the BS for what it is can help those who are indeed looking to know more about how to navigate the process.

For now, some of the misinformation posted here which is not true includes:

It doesn't matter one bit if you're 2 days over the requirement or 2000 days, you meet the requirement.

NOT true. A margin of just a few weeks can significantly reduce the risk of non-routine processing and delays. No guarantee. But better odds.

"wait 2000 days of residence in Canada before applying 'just to be safe'"​

Probably an insincere missive intended to be derisive, but just to be clear, credit for that number of days is simply not possible (well, it is for an application made between June 2015 and October 2017).

"Be afraid."​

No. No need to be afraid. Be prudent. Be prepared. Keep good records. Follow the instructions.

Finally this also calls for some clarification:



There is no way verification of the applicant's "language skills" can be "complete" until, at the very earliest, the knowledge of Canada test is passed. The knowledge of Canada test is part of the process for verifying the applicant has the requisite language skills.

Similarly, there is no formal decision-making as to verifying "physical presence" until, at the earliest, the test stage; except for the impact of current measures implemented due to Covid, this verification was never complete until the applicant had passed the interview (which, but for the virtual test scheme temporarily in place, is also part of the process for verifying the applicant has the requisite language skills).

In contrast, since the RCMP and CSIS background checks are done separately, in parallel, rather than in sequence with other citizenship application processing, yes it is common for those to be complete and returned to the file by RCMP and CSIS respectively, but not reflected as complete in the GCMS. Anyone expecting to glean some idea about how much longer their application will be in process based on the status of the "prohibitions" element, or the background clearances, is chasing ghosts. With rare exception, these are not a factor in how long the process will be. And even if ostensibly complete, these are NEVER truly, fully complete until just before the oath is taken . . . there will be at least more more background clearance done just before the applicant takes the oath.

Wow. Do you by any chance have a shorter version for those of us who have to get back to work?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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Wow. Do you by any chance have a shorter version for those of us who have to get back to work?
Sorry, no. It is not like I am getting paid for this. Actually demands more time and effort to explain things in fewer words. If you follow the links, however, you could learn a good deal about how the process works.

Besides, what I said really was not that in-depth or complicated. I am confident you can skim through and glean what is pertinent for you without much trouble. Maybe when you have more time. If it really is relevant to your interests and you are sincerely asking.