Hi, I'm very new to the forum and have been spending hours and hours since joining learning my way around the forum, sifting through many threads that relate to my situation. I would like to post about my situation, it's regarding a refused PR application (same-sex conjugal) by my outland partner, I am the Canadian sponsor, and I'm wondering would it be better to post a new individual thread in the Family Class Sponsorship group, or post in the already existing, humungous Spousal sponsorship thread at the top of the group?
forum newbie question
- Thread starter sunluvr
- Start date
I personally would suggest a new thread, but up to you. Not a big deal either way.
Just don't post the exact same thing in 12 different threads within minutes of each other.
And by the way: thank you for asking. That's very polite to other forum members.
Hi! I was crafting a response but don't see your question anymore. I saw the first response was from someone who clearly didn't read your message. Hope you didn't get discouraged. In a nutshell...I would say get your divorce and if possible afterwards could you go to a 3rd country to get married???
You might as well continue asking your question in this thread since you've already started it.
Can you give us more background info on why the conjugal application was refused? That will help us to guide you on what to do next and suggest if it makes sense to appeal or if you need a brand new application.
Hi, I've also just posted this for the 3rd time in a new thread, as the first 2 both disappeared..
My partner (Vietnam) and I (Canadian) have just received a refusal to his PR application and the primary reasons are:
"Based on the information provided, you do not meet the definition of a member of the family class
(conjugal partner) because you did not satisfy me that common-law partner status or marriage was not possible for you and your sponsor. I have also considered other factors in assessing your conjugal relationship, such as efforts to live in the same country, evidence of applying for visas to cohabit, financial interdependence and the social aspects of your relationship.
Subsection 11(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act provides that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or any other document required by the regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. For the reasons set out above, I am not satisfied that you are not inadmissible and that you meet the requirements of the Act. I am therefore refusing your application."
A little bit of background info: I went through this process 20 years ago (2002) with another partner, at that time it was under Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds. Prior to that, I was previously married to a woman, we physically separated in 1998 but didn't legally separate until 2008, and we never finalized the divorce. My marital status was not an issue at that time during that PR application.
Our current relationship began almost 3.5 years ago, and at the time I was spending 5-7 months each year in SE Asia. Prior to Covid, we lived together in VN first for 2.5 months, then later, another 7 months, then Covid arrived, VN stopped issuing tourist visas and I returned to Canada, unable to return there since.
Unfortunately for us, I am only understanding now how much things have changed in the immigration process regarding conjugal partners. Also, prior to our recent application, I never bothered to get my partner to apply for a TRV, knowing the futileness of that, with his particular situation, but NOT understanding, until now, the signifigance of not having done that, and the associated requirement to demonstrate all efforts to live together in the same country.
Based on what I now know, I am convinced that any appeal is pointless.
I realize now, my first next step needs to be to finalize my divorce. After that, I'm really wondering what direction to take.
1) I have applied for the GCMS notes for my partner's refused PR application last week. When I submitted the information request, I, the sponsor, did not have the signed consent form from my partner, the applicant, but I have it now. Should I file the application again (it would just cost me another $5), or wait until they contact me about the consent form and then send it to them? Any idea how long it might be until I hear from them?
2) Regarding submitting a new immigration application as conjugal same-sex partners, along with a TRV application for my partner to visit Canada (which I know he has 0% chance of success, but it needs to be done to demonstrate an immigration/marriage barrier), but I've read differing suggestions about the timing of submitting each - some suggesting doing the TVR first, in order to establish eligibility as conjugal relationship, and others saying to submit the PR application first, then a short time after, apply for the TVR. The latter was suggested by an immigration consultant with whom I had a consultation recently. I'm wondering about the pros and cons of each option.
3) In the event of a subsequent new application, is it likely that the processing time would be much different than the previous application? I'm just thinking of a couple of things that are part of the review process that have already been done recently, such as my eligibility as a sponsor, my partner already having provided biometrics..
4) Currently in Vietnam, the only possible way for me to enter the country is with a 30 day tourist visa, which policy was just re-instated a month or two ago. The government has not yet announced any details about possibility of during visa runs every 30 days, i.e. going out of country and back in on a new tourist visa, and it is not clear if that will become possible. Would such a situation be considered as a barrier to immigration for me to be able to cohabit with my partner in Vietnam in order to become common-law?
2) Regarding submitting a new immigration application as conjugal same-sex partners, along with a TRV application for my partner to visit Canada (which I know he has 0% chance of success, but it needs to be done to demonstrate an immigration/marriage barrier), but I've read differing suggestions about the timing of submitting each - some suggesting doing the TVR first, in order to establish eligibility as conjugal relationship, and others saying to submit the PR application first, then a short time after, apply for the TVR. The latter was suggested by an immigration consultant with whom I had a consultation recently. I'm wondering about the pros and cons of each option.
3) In the event of a subsequent new application, is it likely that the processing time would be much different than the previous application? I'm just thinking of a couple of things that are part of the review process that have already been done recently, such as my eligibility as a sponsor, my partner already having provided biometrics..
4) Currently in Vietnam, the only possible way for me to enter the country is with a 30 day tourist visa, which policy was just re-instated a month or two ago. The government has not yet announced any details about possibility of during visa runs every 30 days, i.e. going out of country and back in on a new tourist visa, and it is not clear if that will become possible. Would such a situation be considered as a barrier to immigration for me to be able to cohabit with my partner in Vietnam in order to become common-law?
You need to apply for the TRV first and wait for the results of the TRV application. Do not submit the PR application at the same time or before the results of the TRV application are known.
If the TRV is refused, you can then resubmit the conjugal sponsorship application.
If the TRV is approved, then your partner travels to Canada and you either get married once your here or live together for a year here continuously to become common law, then you sponsor your partner as either your spouse or common law partner. You'll no longer need to go the conjugal route if the TRV is approved.
Finally, after submitting my ATI request almost 5 months ago, I finally received a response from them yesterday, a 91 page .pdf file, the first 88 pages was meaningless administration data/gobbledegook, but in the last few pages were a pretty detailed representation of my partner's interview with Immigration (which I wasn't invited to take part in virtually), and summary and comments from the VO.
In the information provided, there were 2 clear reasons for the application being denied, which I accept and am working on rectifying/removing those reasons. There were however, a few other concerns/comments pointed out by Immigration, which I am seeking to find ways, suggestions as to how to possibly overcome their concerns about them, and would welcome any comments pertaining to them.
1) I have 3 adult children from my first marriage which ended 24 years ago, and 2 of my children have disowned me since then. I am still in occasional touch with the 3rd but I don't believe any of them are aware of my current relationship and that's not likely to change in the near future. I have 2 other siblings, one of them is aware of my partner, but has never met him, and I am not close to either of them. Immigration expressed that as a concern with comments such as 'I look at social aspects, being intertwined with your sponsor's family'.. you have demonstrated some ties, but they do not satisfy me that a strong level of interdependence exists'. How does one overcome that kind of argument?
2) Regarding financial support, I have sent my partner periodic wire transfers while we have been apart for the past 2.5 yrs, and Immigration's response to that was 'some financial support has been demonstrated, not satisfied that it demonstrates sufficient interdependence and a permanent merging of affairs'. They recognize that it is not possible for us to open a joint account in his country due to the country's banking restrictions for foreigners. How does one overcome that kind of argument?
Regarding both points 1) and 2), another Immigration comment was 'insufficient documentary evidence has been submitted to show the merging of the PA and SPR's lives.'
3) Immigration asked about Age difference in the interview, and mentioned it as a concern: The age difference is significant. Part of my partner's interview response was - 'The age gap does not affect our relationship at all. I think it is our destiny, we found each other compatible. He has a great sense of humour. He gave me the sense of love.' How does one overcome that kind of argument?
4) Immigration claimed that we submitted proof of communication that was very limited. We were limited to 10 pages of proof of communication. 95% of our communication while apart (so far 2.3 years out of 3.8 years) has been almost daily, through a social media app, either by chat or video call, the latter with no record of. We provided as many snippets of our chats that we could manage within 10 pages, and sent more during the application process, doing our best to show the regular (95% daily) communication between us. How does one overcome that kind of argument?
Any and all helpful comments, suggestions welcomed as we start working on our 2nd application.
In the information provided, there were 2 clear reasons for the application being denied, which I accept and am working on rectifying/removing those reasons. There were however, a few other concerns/comments pointed out by Immigration, which I am seeking to find ways, suggestions as to how to possibly overcome their concerns about them, and would welcome any comments pertaining to them.
1) I have 3 adult children from my first marriage which ended 24 years ago, and 2 of my children have disowned me since then. I am still in occasional touch with the 3rd but I don't believe any of them are aware of my current relationship and that's not likely to change in the near future. I have 2 other siblings, one of them is aware of my partner, but has never met him, and I am not close to either of them. Immigration expressed that as a concern with comments such as 'I look at social aspects, being intertwined with your sponsor's family'.. you have demonstrated some ties, but they do not satisfy me that a strong level of interdependence exists'. How does one overcome that kind of argument?
2) Regarding financial support, I have sent my partner periodic wire transfers while we have been apart for the past 2.5 yrs, and Immigration's response to that was 'some financial support has been demonstrated, not satisfied that it demonstrates sufficient interdependence and a permanent merging of affairs'. They recognize that it is not possible for us to open a joint account in his country due to the country's banking restrictions for foreigners. How does one overcome that kind of argument?
Regarding both points 1) and 2), another Immigration comment was 'insufficient documentary evidence has been submitted to show the merging of the PA and SPR's lives.'
3) Immigration asked about Age difference in the interview, and mentioned it as a concern: The age difference is significant. Part of my partner's interview response was - 'The age gap does not affect our relationship at all. I think it is our destiny, we found each other compatible. He has a great sense of humour. He gave me the sense of love.' How does one overcome that kind of argument?
4) Immigration claimed that we submitted proof of communication that was very limited. We were limited to 10 pages of proof of communication. 95% of our communication while apart (so far 2.3 years out of 3.8 years) has been almost daily, through a social media app, either by chat or video call, the latter with no record of. We provided as many snippets of our chats that we could manage within 10 pages, and sent more during the application process, doing our best to show the regular (95% daily) communication between us. How does one overcome that kind of argument?
Any and all helpful comments, suggestions welcomed as we start working on our 2nd application.