For ECA which is preferred-WES, CES or ICAS

[Sita1987]

@ munjal

even I noticed (from online assessment) only MBA is considered a Master degree on WES website. All other masters degrees are assessed as 4-years Bachelors. This is ridiculous

To check, I purposely entered wrong duration for India mba (as 1 yr) and still WES gave it as Masters assessment.

Anyone will know there is no 1-year MBA degree in India. All MBA programs are 2 years. Any 1 yr MBA program in India is NOT Masters degree but a Post Graduate Diploma. Still WES considers a 1 year MBA/PG diploma as a Masters. This shows WES has no idea about Masters degrees in India

I am prepared to wait it out for 13 wks rather than get wrong assessment from WES bcoz that's affecting my chance at EE. I will go for CES assessment


I want to know if I must give more supporting documents to prove my MSc is equivalent to Canadian Masters in Science and show my MSc (I studied directly on university campus, got admission was thru national selection) is different from general MSc degree conducted at regular colleges? Your advice will be valued

Just to clarify one thing. A one year post graduate diploma in business administration (so called executive MBA) is not evaluated as MAsters by WES. I am telling this with personal experience as my bro-in-law got his Bcom and Post graduate diploma (one year course) evaluated by WES as Bachelors degree only (3 years). One more thing i noticed is WES evaluates a person with B. TEch (4 years) + M.tech (2 years) as masters degree. But with those who have B.Sc. or B.com or B.A (3 years) + M.Sc. Or M.com or M.A (2 years) it is assessed as Bachelors 4 years and one year graduate study. So may be it is the length or duration of study which matters most to them as opposed to the quality of study!

Another thing pointed out by you regarding WES US assessing our masters as masters is right, even my M.Sc. was assessed as masters at least in their free equivalency tool. But same organization WES canada doesn't consider our masters as masters. really strange.

 

[Sita1987]

Also I don't think by sending any additional documents you can sway WES's decision. Since they will not consider any additional documents sent by you unless they ask for it.
So if you have time better to try your luck with CES.

 

[Can_US]

Just to clarify one thing. A one year post graduate diploma in business administration (so called executive MBA) is not evaluated as MAsters by WES. I am telling this with personal experience as my bro-in-law got his Bcom and Post graduate diploma (one year course) evaluated by WES as Bachelors degree only (3 years). One more thing i noticed is WES evaluates a person with B. TEch (4 years) + M.tech (2 years) as masters degree. But with those who have B.Sc. or B.com or B.A (3 years) + M.Sc. Or M.com or M.A (2 years) it is assessed as Bachelors 4 years and one year graduate study. So may be it is the length or duration of study which matters most to them as opposed to the quality of study!

Another thing pointed out by you regarding WES US assessing our masters as masters is right, even my M.Sc. was assessed as masters at least in their free equivalency tool. But same organization WES canada doesn't consider our masters as masters. really strange.

If you use the free equivalency tool on the WES site and select 1 yr for MBA, it still gives it as Masters assessment. There is no 1 yr MBA degree in India. Any 1yr mba degree in India is actually pg diploma and it is not a degree, hence WES should not wrongly assess it as a Masters qualification.

The point I am making is WES assessment is not accurate. WES does not seem 100% knowledgeable about actual qualifications (quality, duration) of Masters degrees in India.

WES has a blanket opinion that all MSc, MCom, MA should be assessed as 4-yrs Bachelor degrees regardless of quality of course curriculum, faculty or quality of research for MSc (for example). But WES considers any MBA (and India is filled with thousands of dime a dozen MBA institutes of questionable quality) as Masters degrees.


I have not sent my degrees to WES for assessment. All my comments are based on the WES online equivalency tool. I wanted advice whetehr to select WES or not

I know at least 2 members who took up WES for wrong assessment of their qualifications and got a review with correct assessment. But I don't want to risk going thru this situation

I don't know if its true. I came across a post (not on this forum). It is impossible to get access or enter inside the WES office or even to speak with someone

 

[Asivad Anac]

If you use the free equivalency tool on the WES site and select 1 yr for MBA, it still gives it as Masters assessment. There is no 1 yr MBA degree in India. Any 1yr mba degree in India is actually pg diploma and it is not a degree, hence WES should not wrongly assess it as a Masters qualification.

The point I am making is WES assessment is not accurate. WES is not knowledgeable about actual qualifications (quality, duration) of Masters degrees in India.

WES probably has a blanket opinion that all MSc, MCom, MA should be assessed as 4-yrs Bachelor degrees regardless of quality of course curriculum, faculty or quality of research for MSc (for example). But WES considers any MBA (and India is filled with thousands of dime a dozen MBA institutes of questionable quality) as Masters degrees.


I have not sent my degrees to WES for assessment. All my comments are based on the WES online equivalency tool. I wanted advice whetehr to select WES or not

I know at least 2 members who took up WES for wrong assessment of their qualifications and got a review with correct assessment. But I don't want to risk going thru this situation

I don't know if its true. I came across a post (not on this forum). It is impossible to get access or enter inside the WES office or even to speak with someone

A few facts about WES.

1. They are a non-profit organization.

2. They have been around for more than 4 decades making them one of the (if not THE) oldest global credential assessment service providers.

3. They provide data on more than 45,000 foreign academic institutions, 200 countries, 21,000 academic credentials, and 1,500 grading scales.

4. They have delivered evaluations to more than one million people worldwide.

5. They are widely recognized by more than 2,500 educational, business and governmental institutions throughout the U.S. and Canada.

Are they inaccurate or uninformed about education qualifications in India or any other country that they operate in? Hardly. CIC wouldn't let them be the ONLY outsider credential assessment service provider if that were the case.

Do they go wrong once in a while? For sure. Is that sufficient reason to question their overall credibility, processes and reliability? Probably not.

For comparison, positive re-valuations on IELTS are reported much more frequently but we don't see the same backlash or concerns there even though language scores matter slightly more than educational credentials in determining CRS. Personally, I will be surprised if CES or ICAS assess qualification(s) differently than WES because that would make one of them less objective than the other and that isn't fair to the applicant, CIC or the organizations themselves.

Much as we have received anecdotal evidence about someone (or their 'friend') being denied their dues by WES and receiving justice elsewhere, no one has shared any ECA reports on this forum yet of the same qualifications being assessed differently by two organizations. I reserve my judgment till someone produces material evidence in the form of an ECA from WES and an ECA from CES/ICAS for the same applicant showing 2 different outcomes. Till then, it is important to note that there is overwhelming evidence about WES being a non partisan service provider who has an excellent track record in the past and are far quicker in assessment than the other designated organizations.

 

[munjal]

If you use the free equivalency tool on the WES site and select 1 yr for MBA, it still gives it as Masters assessment. There is no 1 yr MBA degree in India. Any 1yr mba degree in India is actually pg diploma and it is not a degree, hence WES should not wrongly assess it as a Masters qualification.

The point I am making is WES assessment is not accurate. WES does not seem 100% knowledgeable about actual qualifications (quality, duration) of Masters degrees in India.

WES has a blanket opinion that all MSc, MCom, MA should be assessed as 4-yrs Bachelor degrees regardless of quality of course curriculum, faculty or quality of research for MSc (for example). But WES considers any MBA (and India is filled with thousands of dime a dozen MBA institutes of questionable quality) as Masters degrees.


I have not sent my degrees to WES for assessment. All my comments are based on the WES online equivalency tool. I wanted advice whetehr to select WES or not

I know at least 2 members who took up WES for wrong assessment of their qualifications and got a review with correct assessment. But I don't want to risk going thru this situation

Hi Can_US.. pl can you share any link of the posts these members have made on this forum??
So that it will also satisfy the need of some of forum members to get proof of certain things..

I don't know if its true. I came across a post (not on this forum). It is impossible to get access or enter inside the WES office or even to speak with someone

 

[Can_US]

Much as we have received anecdotal evidence about someone (or their 'friend') being denied their dues by WES and receiving justice elsewhere, no one has shared any ECA reports on this forum yet of the same qualifications being assessed differently by two organizations. I reserve my judgment till someone produces material evidence in the form of an ECA from WES and an ECA from CES/ICAS for the same applicant showing 2 different outcomes.

Most applicants choose WES simply because assessment time is very short compared to CES or ICAS. And WES costs less too. Paperwork to be provided to WES is less too compared to CES or ICAS

There are many cases on this forum of applicants' colleges/universities not listed in the WES list and assessment was not possible. The same applicants were able to get assessment from CES or ICAS

 

[munjal]

Most applicants choose WES simply because assessment time is very short compared to CES or ICAS. And WES costs less too. Paperwork to be provided to WES is less too compared to CES or ICAS

There are many cases on this forum of applicants' colleges/universities not listed in the WES list and assessment was not possible. The same applicants were able to get assessment from CES or ICAS

Hi Can_US..
pl can you share any link of the posts these members have made on this forum??
So that it will also satisfy the need of some of forum members to get proof of certain things.. and make things very much clear !

 

[Asivad Anac]

Most applicants choose WES simply because assessment time is very short compared to CES or ICAS. And WES costs less too. Paperwork to be provided to WES is less too compared to CES or ICAS

There are many cases on this forum of applicants' colleges/universities not listed in the WES list and assessment was not possible. The same applicants were able to get assessment from CES or ICAS

Like I said, there has been no material evidence. Statements aren't material evidence. I don't require this for myself but there are many forum members who will benefit from seeing evidence rather than statements so that they can decide for themselves.

Material evidence will be established when any member puts up an ECA report each from WES and CES/ICAS and both of them are for the exact same person and give completely different results. If that is available, it can be used to send a mail to CIC asking them to remove at least one of those agencies from their designated ECA organizations so that applicants in the future don't waste their money. I suspect such evidence even exists beyond statements made by ill informed members. If such evidences exist, I am most certainly willing to be wrong.

 

[Sita1987]

If you use the free equivalency tool on the WES site and select 1 yr for MBA, it still gives it as Masters assessment. There is no 1 yr MBA degree in India. Any 1yr mba degree in India is actually pg diploma and it is not a degree, hence WES should not wrongly assess it as a Masters qualification.
The entry you made in free equivalency tool could have resulted in the assessment of PGDM as a masters. But in reality this is not the case, you may choose to believe it or not but I have seen a ECA report from WES personally in my family so I can vouch for my statement. WES DOES NOT ASSESS A PGDM (one year) as a masters. In India this one year PGDM is also commonly referred to as executive MBA since it is often taken up by people who have work experience to add to their CV and not students directly after their graduation. Ofcourse the regular MBA programs are for 2 years. May be they are assessed as masters, I can't comment on it.

The point I am making is WES assessment is not accurate. WES does not seem 100% knowledgeable about actual qualifications (quality, duration) of Masters degrees in India.

WES has a blanket opinion that all MSc, MCom, MA should be assessed as 4-yrs Bachelor degrees regardless of quality of course curriculum, faculty or quality of research for MSc (for example). But WES considers any MBA (and India is filled with thousands of dime a dozen MBA institutes of questionable quality) as Masters degrees.
You can cry hoarse about the WES evaluation criteria on this forum as much as you wish but that won't change your ECA. And we are not more qualified than WES to assess the quality of any institute in India, MBA or not. Everyone will fight for their institute or university and claim it is the best, but the right assessment can come only from a third person not associated with the institute

I have not sent my degrees to WES for assessment. All my comments are based on the WES online equivalency tool. I wanted advice whetehr to select WES or not

I know at least 2 members who took up WES for wrong assessment of their qualifications and got a review with correct assessment. But I don't want to risk going thru this situation
We have not yet come across a person who has managed to change their ECA from one year graduate study to Masters on this forum (from India or any other country). If you know of any please let us know their name or the thread where they have confirmed this. It is highly unlikely in normal scenario. I managed to get a rectified ECA report from WES regarding a spelling mistake in my name but they refused to change my equivalency from bacehlors degree (4 years) + one year graduate study to masters

I don't know if its true. I came across a post (not on this forum). It is impossible to get access or enter inside the WES office or even to speak with someone
WES does reply to the mails (sent through their website)...though they take a lot of time but they do respond.

Please no hard feelings here we are just trying to help each other out with the information we as individuals have. Not necessary we all agree with each other in every aspect. Cheers

 

[Can_US]

@munjal

please see your inbox

 

[Render-yo]

Hi everyone,

this is my first post here
i have read all of this thread and i found it very helpful, because i have a Masters degree and i was going to do my ECA through WES, but now ill change WES for CES in hope for them to assess my Masters Degree as a Canadian Master.

However I have certain concerns related to the procedure for Having my ECA done through CES :
1- In WES they give a place where to register and create your profile in order to assess your query .. i couldn't find this in ECS website ??
2- I have three diplomas, should i make an envelope and an application form for each one of them ?? should i sign the application form ??
3- Please explain to me how to pay the Fees (in details)
4- And last ... how can I survey my ECA treatment ??

Thanks everyone !

someone help please

 

[munjal]

Sita1987..
suddenly your voice seems to be on defensive tone..
why you started defending WES and talking like you want to take back your words and cover up the previous comments which you made for WES..

There is nothing wrong in voicing out your concerns.. and see.. this is not only you..

Many people have commented about the WES's evaluation of Bachelors + Masters degree (apart from MBA) having 3+2 years studies done from India as 4 years bachelors degree.

And so.. It is just my observation from your last post in reply to Can_US..

pls dont feel offended...

 

[Can_US]

@Asivad Anac and Sita1987

Thank you for your views.

We are all entitled to our own point of views based on facts, anecdotes and anything else. If someone chooses to believe something is right (even if it is glaringly wrong) then good luck to him or her

I rest my case unless someone can offer help and advice. Instead of defending WES or making a pitch for WES or vouching for the correctness of WES assessments

 

[munjal]

Hi everyone,

this is my first post here
i have read all of this thread and i found it very helpful, because i have a Masters degree and i was going to do my ECA through WES, but now ill change WES for CES in hope for them to assess my Masters Degree as a Canadian Master.

However I have certain concerns related to the procedure for Having my ECA done through CES :
1- In WES they give a place where to register and create your profile in order to assess your query .. i couldn't find this in ECS website ??

CES doesnt have online application setup. you have to send hard copies by mail


2- I have three diplomas, should i make an envelope and an application form for each one of them ?? should i sign the application form ??

the only difference in WES and CES here is that in WES it will be only one envelope to be couriered, where as in CES, there will be multiple envelope/s to be couriered to CES.. and it will increase the courier cost also accordingly.
pls check this post: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/for-eca-which-is-preferredwes-ces-or-icas-t297238.0.html;msg4526950#msg4526950

3- Please explain to me how to pay the Fees (in details)


Pls check below link for details of fees:
http://learn.utoronto.ca/international-professionals/comparative-education-service-ces/immigration/service-fees

Accepted Payment Methods
We recommend that payments be made through Visa, MasterCard or American Express.

CES will accept bank certified cheques or money orders in Canadian dollars only made payable to the University of Toronto. Note: Personal cheques, bank drafts, debit cards, cash, payment in US dollars, and wire transfer are NOT accepted. CES does not provide a bank account number, SWIFT code, or other banking details.


4- And last ... how can I survey my ECA treatment ??

In case of CES, you can either call them or you can send them an email. There is no online application tracking setup for CES.

Thanks everyone !
Good Luck for your EE application.

Hi Render-yo,
You are at the right place, this forum is abundant of the immigration information.

I will try to provide some links of CES:

A completed CES ECA Report Package includes:
· Two original copies of your ECA Report (one for you and one for you to submit to CIC)
· An electronic (unofficial) copy of your ECA Report
· Secure electronic storage of your ECA - viewable only by Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC)

You can check all info about ECA for immigration purposes from CES here:
http://learn.utoronto.ca/international-professionals/comparative-education-service-ces/immigration

CES processing times:
http://learn.utoronto.ca/international-professionals/comparative-education-service-ces/processing-times

You can download all the necessary application forms from here:
http://learn.utoronto.ca/international-professionals/comparative-education-service-ces/immigration/application-forms


To obtain an Educational Credential Assessment for Immigration Purposes, the link to the application form is below:
http://learn.utoronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Educational-Credential-Assessment-CDN-Immigration-Programs_May-2015.pdf

Below form has to be submitted to your college/institution/university:
This form can be submitted to your educational institutions to have your Official Transcripts/Academic Records sent directly to the CES office in a sealed envelope.
http://learn.utoronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Request-Official-Academic-Records-Dec-2014.pdf

Below is the link for country-wise documents required to be submitted:
http://learn.utoronto.ca/international-professionals/comparative-education-service-ces/country-list


Your application for an Educational Credential Assessment Report will require:
• A completed and signed CES application form
• A colour photocopy of your government-issued photo identification showing your date of birth
• A colour photocopy of both sides of the final award for each completed degree, diploma or certificate in its original
language with official English or French translation (if applicable)
• A colour photocopy of both sides of your academic records (transcripts, statements of marks) for each completed
program of study in their original language and official English or French translation (if applicable)
• Official academic records/transcripts/statements of marks mailed directly to CES in a sealed envelope from each
educational institution listed on your CES application form. Applicants with completed studies in the People's
Republic of China (PRC) should refer to the Required Documents at www.learn.utoronto.ca/international-professionals/
comparative- education-service-ces/country-list/china
• Full payment of applicable CES service fees

Send documents from your side to:
Comparative Education Service (CES)
University of Toronto School of Continuing Studies
162 St. George Street
Toronto, ON
Canada
M5S 2E9

Official Transcripts from issuing institutions must be signed, sealed and mailed to:
Comparative Education Service (CES)
University of Toronto School of Continuing Studies c/o
Research Department (CDN Immigration Programs)
162 St. George Street Toronto, ON, Canada M5S 2E9


For more info you can check FAQs here:
http://learn.utoronto.ca/international-professionals/comparative-education-service-ces/immigration/faqs


If you still have questions, please send an email to ces.fswp @ utoronto.ca and a CES representative will respond as quickly as possible.

 

[Sita1987]

Sita1987..
suddenly your voice seems to be on defensive tone..
why you started defending WES and talking like you want to take back your words and cover up the previous comments which you made for WES..

There is nothing wrong in voicing out your concerns.. and see.. this is not only you..

Many people have commented about the WES's evaluation of Bachelors + Masters degree (apart from MBA) having 3+2 years studies done from India as 4 years bachelors degree.

And so.. It is just my observation from your last post in reply to Can_US..

pls dont feel offended...

It is absolutely not my place to feel offended dear. And neither am I trying to cover up my previous comments for WES!! (cover up..really is that what you felt from my comments..trust me absolutely not)

I am trying to be rational here..if someone feels that only their masters is actual masters becoz they have done it from "the top-ranking" institute and rest others are from "general masters college" (whatever that means) I would like to clarify things that is all. My earlier post meant that you or me we can't decide which college is top ranking and which is not let us leave that to data and statistics. We are here trying to figure out if CES or any other organization can give us a better assessment rather the right one. And if WES has changed anyone's evaluation from existing one year graduate study to masters PLEASE LET EVRYONE KNOW (not a private message). In some earlier post someone mentioned that one of their friends got his/her education re-evaluated to masters from CES but again no further details.
Again I am stressing on the fact that we are here to help each other out not to prove right or wrong nor to prove whose masters is superior

And I PERSONALLY HATE WES AND WON'T EVER ADVICE ANYONE ELSE TO CHOOSE WES FOR ECA. Unless you are in a hurry coz as far as my understanding goes only WES gives ECA in 3 weeks time compared to CES which states 13 weeks as their standard required time...even ICAS takes a lot longer. That was the only reason I chose WES. Coz fees is not very different.
@Can_US and Munjal: please I did not mean to sound defensive or take the side of WES. Why would I when I am myself a victim of WES's wrong evaluation. That is why I suggested you guys to opt for CES if time permits.