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filing outland application while on extended visit to Canada--where do I live?

alpaca

Newbie
May 11, 2009
8
0
I am a US citizen living in Canada for the next year as a visitor starting in August--I will be visiting Canada for my job in the US, which is continuing to pay my salary and benefits. Because I am an academic (I am doing a research collaboration) and not entering the Canadian job market, I have been told I can be in Canada on a temporary resident visa.

My husband is Canadian-US dual citizen and he will be in Canada with me. We MAY like to apply outland family class for PR for me during this year that I am in Canada so that I can stay in Canada and enter the Canadian workforce.

Is this possible?

I have looked at the application forms and I am very confused about where I would say I "live" and what my mailing address is. Because I will be in Canada for a whole year working (for my US employer) I will not maintaining a residence in the US. I can list my parents' address in the US (which is across the country from my job), but I don't really live there--I will live in Canada for as long as I am involved in the collaboration and on a TRV. But because I will be on a temporary resident visa, am I allowed to really say that I live in Canada? Am I going to be accused of dual intent? What is the best way to proceed with this?

Would there be an advantage to putting in my application before I leave the US for the collaboration in August? We are still not sure if we want to stay in Canada beyond the year that I am there for work, but if we will have trouble putting in an application while I'm on a TRV, we can do that.

Thanks for your advice
 

RobsLuv

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2008
1,838
127
124
Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Original:14Mar2007; Reprocess began after appeal:26Apr2010
Doc's Request.
Original:9May'07; Reprocess:7May'10
AOR Received.
Original:28Apr'07; Reprocess:26Apr'10
File Transfer...
n/a
Med's Request
Reprocessing:7May2010
Med's Done....
Jun2010
Interview........
n/a
Passport Req..
30Nov2010!!
VISA ISSUED...
31Dec2010!!
LANDED..........
31Jan2011
Yes, it's possible for your husband to sponsor you for permanent status. You don't have to be in Canada to do that - he could do it even while you stayed in the States, but it's a little more complicated that way because he then has to prove that he intends to settle in Canada. If he's already in Canada, not an issue.

You can use your Canadian address as your mailing address, but you can only use the Canadian address as the residential address if you are initially admitted to Canada with temporary status valid for at least one year (this would be by way of a Visitor Record, a work permit or a study permit - US citizens are not documented on TRVs). Otherwise, you need to use a family member or friend's address in the States as your residential address. CIC will not use the residential address as the contact address - they will use the mailing address for that. The residential address is strictly used to determine which overseas visa office processes the file.

Actually, this really doesn't matter either way because Buffalo processes all US applicants anyway. But it can be to your advantage NOT to use your Canadian address as your residential address, even if you are documented for at least one year. If you use your Canadian residential address, your file would stay in Buffalo, and this can be a disadvantage when Buffalo gets backlogged. Normally, if they get backlogged they transfer US applicant files to other outlying visa offices all over the country to expedite processing. If you used a Canadian residential address, your file stays stuck in Buffalo because Buffalo processes all applicants (from any country) who have legal temporary status in Canada for at least one year. So, you miss out on the chance to have your file expedited by being processed at one of the less busy consulates.

One thing to keep in mind: if you require an interview, the file will be sent to the consulate that is closest to your US residential address. If that consulate (Detroit, Seattle, NYC or Los Angeles) is not close to your location in Canada, you can use the Interview Location Preference form included in Appendix A of the Region Specific forms to designate the consulate of those 4 (well, really only 3 because LA wouldn't count) that is closest to your Canadian province. That way you would not have to travel as far for an interview as you might have to if they transfer depending on your US address.

One other thing - it will always be worth it to file for Canadian PR, even if you ultimately decide that you don't want to stay in Canada right now. After becoming a PR, as long as you are with your husband, you maintain your PR status - whether you live in Canada, the US, or somewhere else entirely. So getting PR will give you the ability to come back and immediately go to work in Canada, and have a life anytime you guys decide that's what you want. You asked about whether it's better to apply for PR now - or wait until August. Just depends on your preference. If it will not be complicated for your husband to prove that he intends to settle in Canada with you in August, you can apply now. But there is no need if you've already gotten the temporary status issue resolved for you to come and stay, and work for your US employer. You can be in Canada, as long as you maintain your temporary status, even though you have a permanent status application in process. Yes, that's dual intent - but "dual intent" is not well understood - it's not necessarily a deal breaker or a negative. You might want to read through the information on the "Visiting" page of the US2Canada website - that might help clear things up a bit for you.
 

alpaca

Newbie
May 11, 2009
8
0
Re: filing outland application while on extended visit to Canada--where do I liv

RobsLuv I can't tell you how much I appreciate all this information. I didn't know about the Visitor Record--I think I was mistaken about being on a TRV while in Canada for a year. It sounds like it would be in my interest to apply for PR status--I didn't realize that we could move from Canada together and still keep my status, that's great news. Because it is quite likely that we'll move back after this year but then want to return eventually, and already having PR status would definitely simplify things.

So, do you know, can I obtain a visitor record valid through August 2010 on the basis that I'm married to a Canadian, we intend to/have filed for PR status, and I have instructions from my US employer that I need to visit Canada for my US job while in Canada until August 2010? If so, is it possible for me to go to a port of entry and obtain that visitor record NOW? This would enable us to sign a lease on an apartment, etc. in advance of our move in August. I would be afraid to wait until we have the moving truck packed up and are on our way there only to be denied a year-long stay at the border. I've posted about how to obtain 1-year visitor status on the visitor board but haven't received an answer--it almost seems like it would be easier if I weren't from a visa-exempt country!!

I also really appreciate the link to US2Canada, some great info on that site that is really relevant to my situation. If you could advise on my best course of action for settling ASAP my temporary status for the next year, I would appreciate it so much. It sounds like once that is done, the thing to do is to start the PR application--this seems like a good time to undertake that because I will have a year of valid status in Canada to complete it and we likely won't have to deal with living apart or living in the US and having to prove he intends to settle in Canada. Thanks for any and all information!!
 

RobsLuv

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2008
1,838
127
124
Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Original:14Mar2007; Reprocess began after appeal:26Apr2010
Doc's Request.
Original:9May'07; Reprocess:7May'10
AOR Received.
Original:28Apr'07; Reprocess:26Apr'10
File Transfer...
n/a
Med's Request
Reprocessing:7May2010
Med's Done....
Jun2010
Interview........
n/a
Passport Req..
30Nov2010!!
VISA ISSUED...
31Dec2010!!
LANDED..........
31Jan2011
The information about getting a Visitor Record that's on the US2Canada site came directly from the Minister's office. The best way to go about this is to get the PR application in process - even while you're in the States still - and get your husband's sponsorship approval letter from CPC-Mississauga in hand. This takes about a month from the date they receive the completed application. At that point you can feel pretty confident that when you arrive at the Canadian port of entry that you'll be issued a Visitor Record. Because your hubby is a citizen settling in Canada, he's allowed to bring his belongings - although he will pay duty tax on stuff valued over a certain amount. (More on that later). Once your husband tells the officer at the entry booth that he's coming into Canada to settle and that you're married, etc., that officer will send you guys to the secondary IOs inside. The key is that HE deals with the immigration officers - telling them that he is coming to Canada as a citizen, intent on settling there, and that you are his US citizen wife and he has applied for your permanent status. Proof of that can be in the form of his sponsorship approval letter (best) or even just proof of having paid the application fees by having a copy of the receipt. He does not need to go into you being authorized to work for your US employer - and, in fact, he shouldn't get into that because it's likely it will complicate matters. (More on this later, too.)

You can't apply ahead of time for the VR - you have to get it at the POE - and I don't advise getting it first, then leaving Canada and coming back again, because the VR is not a re-entry permit and the IO on the second entry could decide the original VR is invalid because you left Canada after you got it, and then you'd just have to go through the whole process all over again. There's really no reason - unless your criminally inadmissible to Canada - to worry that you won't be admitted, given your circumstances. Like I said - have all your documentation in order, let your hubby answer any and all questions unless they're specifically directed at you, and let him present all documentation to the IO when it's requested. Don't volunteer any information that's not specifically requested, and let the IO tell you guys what you need as far as temporary status. With proof of your valid marriage and proof that he's sponsoring you for permanent status there should be no problem with you being admitted. It doesn't matter whether they give you six months or a full year on the VR - so don't panic if they only authorize six months - the VR gives you the ability to extend from within Canada via an extension application. You'll need to apply for that PRIOR to expiration of the status you receive on entry, and keep a copy of delivery confirmation. As long as your extension ap is received before you status expires, you have "implied status" to remain in Canada until they make a decision on the extension (which takes about 75 days) or until you get PR status.

Now, about the working in Canada: your Visitor Record will say that you're prohibited from working or studying in Canada. The Foreign Worker's Manual, in Section 5, defines what is and is not considered "working".
What kind of activities are not considered to be “work”?
  • An activity which does not really ‘take away' from opportunities for Canadians or permanent residents to gain employment or experience in the workplace is not “work” for the purposes of the definition.
Examples of activities not considered to be work include, but are not limited to:
  • volunteer work for which a person would not normally be remunerated, such as sitting on the board of a charity or religious institution; being a ‘big brother' or ‘big sister' to a child; being on the telephone line at a rape crisis centre. (Normally this activity would be part time and incidental to the main reason that a person is in Canada);
  • unremunerated help by a friend or family member during a visit, such as a mother assisting a daughter with childcare, or an uncle helping his nephew build his own cottage;
  • long distance (by telephone or internet) work done by a temporary resident whose employer is outside Canada and who is remunerated from outside Canada;
  • self-employment where the work to be done would have no real impact on the labour market, nor really provide an opportunity for Canadians. Examples include a U.S. farmer crossing the border to work on fields that he owns, or a miner coming to work on his own claim.
There may be other types of unpaid short-term work where the work is really incidental to the main reason that a person is visiting Canada and is not a competitive activity, even though nonmonetary valuable consideration is received. For instance, if a tourist wishes to stay on a family farm and work part time just for room and board for a short period (i.e., 1-4 weeks), this person would not be considered a worker."

Actually, the IRPA Regulations, in Section 187 says it best, "a foreign national seeks to engage in international business activities in Canada without directly entering the Canadian labour market only if (a) the primary source of remuneration for the business activities is outside Canada; and (b) the principal place of business and actual place of accrual of profits remain predominately outside Canada."

So, you're obviously okay to work in Canada for your US employer - as long as you aren't renumerated by a Canadian interest, and you're not doing business in Canada. But if the issue of you working for a US company in Canada comes up on entry, it could get complicated to interpret the legislation on the fly, and also to prove that you wouldn't be violating any of it. They might start insisting that you need a work permit, and that's a complication you don't want to have to deal with.

Another note: about paying duty on possessions. Your husband, as a Canadian citizen (re)settling in Canada, will have to pay duty on items he brings into Canada over a certain dollar amount allowed. You, as a landing permanent resident later on, will not have to pay duty on any of your belongings (even imported vehicles). So, it might be worth it to store some of your property in the States while you're waiting on your PR approval.
 

alpaca

Newbie
May 11, 2009
8
0
Re: filing outland application while on extended visit to Canada--where do I liv

thanks again, this is such a HUGE help and clarifies so much for me. I can't thank you enough for your time, really! One last thing I'm still confused about is re-entry once I have received the visitor record. Would it be inadvisable for me to leave Canada at all while on my visitor record status? Say, to travel to see family for the holidays or to attend a conference overseas? My job in the US would probably like me to come back a couple of times to meet with them, update them on my activities, etc. I am wondering whether I should apply for an HRSDC-exempt work permit? This, from the FOreign Workers Handbook describes me well:

The applicant must have completed their doctorate and be working in a related field to that in
which they earned their Ph.D. to be exempt from HRSDC confirmation. The person must have
graduated, but there is no restriction with regard to date of graduation. Note that physicians who
are conducting post-graduate research, and who have no patient contact, may be included in this
category.
Post-doctoral fellows can be either the direct recipients of an award or be offered a time-limited
position to undertake research on behalf of or as part of a team of researchers. Universities vary
in their methods and criteria used in assessing candidates and offering post-doctoral fellowships.
Officers should assess the written offer from a responsible academic official (professor or higher)
which will state the amount of remuneration, location, nature and expected duration of the term of
employment, and will not be concerned with the source of remuneration.


And I would presumably be allowed to leave Canada for conferences, etc. Do you know anything about this option? I am not sure which route is better to pursue.

Also, if I do request a visitor record, will I need to prove somehow that my husband can support me while we're in Canada? ....since I can't legally work until I get PR? I can prove that I can support myself, but that might lead them to require a work permit? And my husband will have a hard time proving that he can support me since all of his work is freelance...

In any case, if I put in my PR application now, which seems like a better and better idea the more I think about it, then, if everything goes according to plan, I should have my PR status finalized before the end of the year that I am there, and then I am home free and can leave anytime, right?

Thanks again!!
 

RobsLuv

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2008
1,838
127
124
Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Original:14Mar2007; Reprocess began after appeal:26Apr2010
Doc's Request.
Original:9May'07; Reprocess:7May'10
AOR Received.
Original:28Apr'07; Reprocess:26Apr'10
File Transfer...
n/a
Med's Request
Reprocessing:7May2010
Med's Done....
Jun2010
Interview........
n/a
Passport Req..
30Nov2010!!
VISA ISSUED...
31Dec2010!!
LANDED..........
31Jan2011
Unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with HSRDC-exempt work permits - but it does sound like it might be an option for you. I don't know how you'd go about getting one, though, but it would be preferable to a VR. The VR is not a re-entry permit - so anytime you left Canada, you'd have to "pass" the re-entry examination in order to be allowed back. And that really leaves everything up to the IO who is assessing you.

As far as the initial VR, as I remember we didn't have to prove at the time that hubby had a job even, but we did have a letter from his employer just in case. But when applying for extensions we've always submitted copies of his paystubs to show that he is able to support me. And that's always been enough.