Father is being detained and we're being deported!

[Leon]

Using a stolen SSN isn't exactly honest either. The person whose SSN it is can have all kinds of problems because of that. Even though their taxes are being taken off their pay, when the same person (the real one) is working too, having two full time jobs would put them in a higher tax bracket, they would pay through the nose. I saw a program on TV, actually not about an illegal immigrant but a fugitive, who'd stolen a guys SSN and this guy had trouble with the IRS constantly for years. He kept telling them it wasn't possible that he had two full time jobs in different states and they didn't care and kept on billing him. In the end he had a heart attack, he traced it to the stress of dealing with the IRS and on his sick leave, he eventually had the time to make the phone calls to the different workplaces he'd supposedly worked at and managed to find the guy still working at one of them and reported him to the IRS as having stolen his identity. However, the IRS were too slow to catch him and he ran again but all that lead to him getting caught in the end.

 

[cchabert]

Yep, that's right Leon and usually those illegal workers get their SSN by the same person who bring them to US and this guys also get the SSN by the death or alive people.

 

[Flori]

Using a stolen SSN isn't exactly honest either.  The person whose SSN it is can have all kinds of problems because of that.  Even though their taxes are being taken off their pay, when the same person (the real one) is working too, having two full time jobs would put them in a higher tax bracket, they would pay through the nose.  I saw a program on TV, actually not about an illegal immigrant but a fugitive, who'd stolen a guys SSN and this guy had trouble with the IRS constantly for years.  He kept telling them it wasn't possible that he had two full time jobs in different states and they didn't care and kept on billing him.  In the end he had a heart attack, he traced it to the stress of dealing with the IRS and on his sick leave, he eventually had the time to make the phone calls to the different workplaces he'd supposedly worked at and managed to find the guy still working at one of them and reported him to the IRS as having stolen his identity.  However, the IRS were too slow to catch him and he ran again but all that lead to him getting caught in the end.

Yep, that's right Leon and usually those illegal workers get their SSN by the same person who bring them to US and this guys also get the SSN by the death or alive people. 

You are wrong CChabert. The smugglers doesn't usually give fake social security cards, that's a whole other world. Neither the peple who makes the fakes SSN use SSN of real or death people. The reason why is, it'd add more serious offenses to the people making the fakes SSN if they use another's person identity, that if they only come up with a random number, and since they don't need to give a valid SSN, they don't.
You are right Leon, its not honest, and its a mafia that should be dismanteled. But fortunately what happened to the guy (the point is, it wasn't product of illegal immigration) that's not usually the case, most of the time they use a fake SSN that doesn't even exist on the records of the Social Security, cause the numbers are chosen randomly. Even though with the high amount of fake social security issued, there could be a matching, a doble identity resulting in doble taxation or identity missrepresentation for a citizen or legal resident its rarely a case, since the SSN must macth the name and date of birth of the original holder. And illegal aliens are non usually related to identity theft. That's more for other fraudulent activity.

 

[Mel2904]

Flori, I applause you for taking the time to make a point to Frolic, the same point I couldn't be bothered to make. I admire you too, cause it's like talking to a brick wall. This guy (frolic) is either on sthg very very strong to make him so dellusional or he's got his head stuck up his ass so deep he can't think straight. Either way man, SNAP OUT OF IT!!!
First, get your facts straight before you even start thinking about replying to this kind of topic. Secondly, you are being way too judgemental towards illegals. You hold too much resentment towards them, for whatever reason that might be. You should take therapy. If you're in GTA, I know a good one, doesn't charge much. He's doing well for me, I can see progress as i write this.

 

[Mel2904]

they have their own paperwork and proof to send in to prove they are good for Canada.

yea right, paperwork being some real CASH in the bank. Which country wouldn't take a guy with a legit $400,000 in his pocket. C'mon, what are we talking about here. Get real. I come from a third world country and when they saw my lousy $8,000 in the bank, they just said: Ey?, and let me in.

 

[Leon]

So are you saying that if you go in as an investor with $400,000 in your pocket that you are not subject to background checks like everybody else? Do you know that for a fact?

 

[Mel2904]

No, I don't know that for a fact, I'm only guessing and dramatizing a lil' bit maybe. I don't have that kinda money so I wouldn't know. But the fact is that a guy with $400,000 can make a criminal record dissapear in certain countries.

 

[Leon]

No, I don't know that for a fact, I'm only guessing and dramatizing a lil' bit maybe. I don't have that kinda money so I wouldn't know. But the fact is that a guy with $400,000 can make a criminal record dissapear in certain countries.

So it's Canada's fault that other countries are corrupt? Should we not let any rich people immigrate because they may have made their criminal records disappear? What if they trick us by applying as skilled worker and not tell us that they are rich?

 

[Flori]

So are you saying that if you go in as an investor with $400,000 in your pocket that you are not subject to background checks like everybody else? Do you know that for a fact?

No, that is not true Leon, they are still subject to background check. And chances are if the crimes are sever, they would be denied. But tell me, do you really think if famous (with a lot of money) people apply for immigration to Canada, under the bussiness category but with some quite bad past criminal activity. they would have more or less chances of getting a visa than an average thirld world country applicant with some minimal criminal activity?

 

[Flori]

No, I don't know that for a fact, I'm only guessing and dramatizing a lil' bit maybe. I don't have that kinda money so I wouldn't know. But the fact is that a guy with $400,000 can make a criminal record dissapear in certain countries.

So it's Canada's fault that other countries are corrupt? Should we not let any rich people immigrate because they may have made their criminal records disappear? What if they trick us by applying as skilled worker and not tell us that they are rich?

I don't think your statement corresponds at all with what Mel said. That'd be discriminating too, wich we have obviously being against. What I said before is than in a naked point of view, bussiness category is about letting ppl in due to their wealth. That it represents a good for the country, its different, I do think bussiness category makes a country better. But also illegal immigatrion represents a good for a country particulary in the USA, and right now its necessary. Now, that its getting overpopulated by illegal immigrants, that is true too. But then how do you come up with a way of being fair and saying, we need the illegal immigrants but we don't want more, its the trick.

 

[Leon]

Needing illegal immigration is somehow wrong to me. IMO a business that can't pay a living wage doesn't have the right to exist and if they could pay a living wage, they would get some of those unemployed Americans to work for them.

Turning a blind eye to illegal immigration is turning a blind eye to people who are being taken advantage of.

What I think it really sad is the children of the illegals. They often don't even know they are illegal. Because everybody is turning a blind eye to illegal immigration, they are allowed to go to school with other kids and to grow up thinking they are Americans but eventually when they grow up, try to get an after school job at McD's or enroll in college, they find out they are illegal, 2nd class people with no future prospects, forced to live in the shadows looking over their shoulder constantly, taking jobs that nobody else wants.

If you were to go to Yahoo answers, you'd see a lot of posts from these kids, like I'm 18 and just found out I'm illegal, what do I do. I think it's very sad.

I think that the US needs to clean house, either get the illegals out or pardon them and make it easier for people to come in legally while stopping more people from coming illegally.

 

[Flori]

I agree with you Leon in most of what you said.
Now, the part where you said a bussiness that can't pay a living wage doesn't have a right to exist, that its kinda of blurry, since the business are required to pay minimum wage, and even illegal immigrants get at least minimum wage. Now, how do you set the standard for "paying a living wage"? Some people can live with $300 a week, while others could definetly not.

"Because everybody is turning a blind eye to illegal immigration, they are allowed to go to school with other kids and to grow up thinking they are Americans but eventually when they grow up, try to get an after school job at McD's or enroll in college, they find out they are illegal".
I don't think they should be tagged neither, and I'd disagree on banning them from going to school with other americans or legal residents. Do you know how bad and sick that would be??. We can't make them responsible for the decision of their parents. And know that you mention it, I don't know about give ALL illegal immigrants a pardon, but at least, with no doubt, children of illegal immigrants (I mean children who aren't legal residents) should be granted an automatic amnesty, there's no doubt its not their fault they are illegal, and since they haven't commit any crime. Its like saying the laws could accuse a 13yr old boy of drug possesion because his guardian make them do it.

 

[frolic]

Because they have a fake SSN or stolen one and they work for a company A, and this company doesn't do or doesn't care about the background checking, Company A hold on their payroll all the according taxes, at the end this guys know they can't ask for a tax return so all that money goes to uncle Sam or the state.

Another ones got a Tax Id but again you can't ask for a tax return.

Not getting a tax return doesn't mean you are paying MORE necessarily. If the payroll is done properly and you fill out your T1D properly you can pay exactly what you owe and no more. Also...in many cases filing a tax return means you actually have to pay more at that time. So in the end any argument that illegals pay more doesn't fly very far.

 

[Mel2904]

So are you saying that if you go in as an investor with $400,000 in your pocket that you are not subject to background checks like everybody else? Do you know that for a fact?

No, that is not true Leon, they are still subject to background check. And chances are if the crimes are sever, they would be denied. But tell me, do you really think if famous (with a lot of money) people apply for immigration to Canada, under the bussiness category but with some quite bad past criminal activity. they would have more or less chances of getting a visa than an average thirld world country applicant with some minimal criminal activity?

IMHO, more. And that is the whole point of my disscusion.

 

[frolic]

Wow Flori...you even used colours...very nice. I must have really gotten to you.

Really to be more reasonable I am saying the following:
Anyone who breaks a law should accept the responsibility of it and pay the price.

Whether that is an illegal immigrant being deported, a CDN citizen finding out that he can't sponsor his wife because he has a DUI, or a legal immigrant beheading someone it doesn't matter. They all have broken our rules and they now have consequences to face.

So back to talking about immigration issues...

So since illegals have not gone through the background check process and have already shown that they can willingly ignore and break laws why are they surprised that they have consequences because of this?

Sure I don't know that my neighbor isn't a criminal...hell, you might even be one...BUT...I know that a LEGAL immigrant that has had a background check done probably is NOT A CRIMINAL. Imagine that!!! A positive thing from following the process. Wow. So how can you encourage anyone to not follow the correct path?

Sure they pay taxes IF they commit other fraud. Fake SIN numbers to work for reputable firms. Working under the table for firms that are breaking the laws themselves. Wow...either way they are breaking more laws and paying taxes. In the end...their contribution to Canada is offset by the resources they use up by bypassing the system. Investigation, enforcement , detention, deportation and hearings and more...all COST. So even if they paid $100,000 in taxes while here...it is still worth less than a legal immigrant paying $100,000 in taxes in the same time.

And your arguement about CIC officers being out of a job is LAUGHABLE. They would just be reassigned to other departments...helping the legal immigrants come here quicker even. Wow! A novel idea! Thanks for thinking of it.

12 million illegal aliens? Are we talking about the same country? Are you American?

And then you ramble off into incoherrant arguements so I'm just going to end here since the rest of your post isn't even worth debating.