Express entry based on LMIA (Not fair to international Grads)

[FBack54]

Marcus66504, what about those that are not whining about upfront PRs just for having spent money on tuition here? Do you think they are also entitled and expecting something they don't deserve? I would be interested to hear your opinion.

There are several people on these threads who are stuck in a bit of a rut, and I'm one of them. I have a full-time job, have taken risks that I felt I could take with the PGWP given the immigration policies EE, but am now left with a maximum realistic score of ~440. Given that there isn't a whole lot of transparency on how many draws will take place, and given the rather ho hum approach to immigration policy changes, there is a chance that my time in Canada will run out. That would mean that my career development would essentially be put on hold while I re-integrate into a new economic environment in some other country, and my current employer would have to spend atleast a year retraining someone to do what I did. I don't think there is anything entitled about that. If you still don't agree, then atleast suggest solutions. My solution to this whole PGWP conundrum is to 200-300 points to PGWP holders who have the necessary work experience in Canada. That way, you are still giving priority to the god-like LMIA and PNP holders, but there is something for PGWP holders.

Maybe I'm just part of the whiny entitled generation too...atleast I tried.

 

[marcus66504]

Marcus66504, what about those that are not whining about upfront PRs just for having spent money on tuition here? Do you think they are also entitled and expecting something they don't deserve? I would be interested to hear your opinion.

There are several people on these threads who are stuck in a bit of a rut, and I'm one of them. I have a full-time job, have taken risks that I felt I could take with the PGWP given the immigration policies EE, but am now left with a maximum realistic score of ~440. Given that there isn't a whole lot of transparency on how many draws will take place, and given the rather ho hum approach to immigration policy changes, there is a chance that my time in Canada will run out. That would mean that my career development would essentially be put on hold while I re-integrate into a new economic environment in some other country, and my current employer would have to spend atleast a year retraining someone to do what I did. I don't think there is anything entitled about that. If you still don't agree, then atleast suggest solutions. My solution to this whole PGWP conundrum is to 200-300 points to PGWP holders who have the necessary work experience in Canada. That way, you are still giving priority to the god-like LMIA and PNP holders, but there is something for PGWP holders.

Maybe I'm just part of the whiny entitled generation too...atleast I tried.

It's very rare for someone to ask for my opinion.

Not that my opinion matters, but since you asked ....

From what you wrote, especially towards the end, it seems like you don't really care how EE deals with candidates as long as it starts favoring the people in your class, the PGWPs, and giving you what you want. It's the same line screamed by any other PGWP holder: "I deserve PR because I studied and worked here."

Well guess what .... The Government of Canada disagrees. It's their opinion that matters, not yours.

You don't get to evaluate your own self-worth in life. That's not how it works. Others get to evaluate you. If I could get the rewards in my life based on my own assessment of what I deserve, I'd be in the US now.

I hope you're either a millionaire or a movie star because only rich people and those in movies get what they want.

 

[FBack54]

Woah, buddy. How did we get on the subject of self-worth? I think that's completely irrelevant here. We're talking immigration. And even then, thats a rather crappy way to look at it, wouldn't you say. Whats the point of striving for anything if it's all left for others to decide? You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion, but imagine if we just lay down and accepted everything that was ever tossed our way as the one and only truth?

Am I wrong in trying to advocate for something that I think is more beneficial for everyone in the long run? Anyone who posts on any such forum is going to have a bias. Can't expect anything else. Like you said, it's not for me to decide how the immigration system is designed, that's the government's role. But like any other industry lobby, I can suggest solutions that I think work. No harm done.

 

[GARJ]

What you dont understand is how that looks to canafian citizens. They have to be tough on PGWP or otherwise its just seens as a way of buying permanent residency.

You do get treated better than 95% of oversease candidates because you get the work vosa for three years which in turn allows you more points every year.

I bet in my 8 months of being here my wife and i have paid alot more in tax than you and am very well established but because our IEC visas are onlyfor a year we get no experience points and subsequently head home in three weeks Im not bitter though because like everyone it was a risk we took.

Listen son, I've been here for almost 5 years now. I am 100% sure I have paid more tax money than you and your wife combined and multiplied by 100. The other poster who keeps on screaming to the winds that all of us PGWP holders are "Crying because we deserve a PR cause we studied here" should shut the hell up and be more realistic. You obviously don't live in Canada if you think that we are "stealing" jobs for Canadians. Canada has a strong, stable economy, it is a land of opportunity and there are jobs here for anyone who is qualified, educated and willing to work, I know because I live here.

I just have to wait, I have more than a year on my PGWP to wait and see, CEC-specific draws are bound to happen. I just feel bad to all those OWP or PGWP holders that are in a tight spot. They shouldn't have to wait.

 

[The_Distant_One]

Listen son, I've been here for almost 5 years now. I am 100% sure I have paid more tax money than you and your wife combined and multiplied by 100. The other poster who keeps on screaming to the winds that all of us PGWP holders are "Crying because we deserve a PR cause we studied here" should shut the hell up and be more realistic. You obviously don't live in Canada if you think that we are "stealing" jobs for Canadians. Canada has a strong, stable economy, it is a land of opportunity and there are jobs here for anyone who is qualified, educated and willing to work, I know because I live here.

I just have to wait, I have more than a year on my PGWP to wait and see, CEC-specific draws are bound to happen. I just feel bad to all those OWP or PGWP holders that are in a tight spot. They shouldn't have to wait.

Firstly you obviously havent read my previous posts where I have mentioned I'm currently in canada on an IEC but only have a couple of weeks left.

Secondly you ignore the point that PGWP holder get favoured through the sole fact they are given three year work permits. This allows them to gain extra points each year during their work experience. It also gives them 3 years to find an employer that will support them in an LMIA or PNP application.

I got one year, so I get no extra points because I'll only have 8 months work experience in canada but I'm not complaining that I should get better treatment, hell I've trained several canadians to do my job better than any canadian education seemed to do it. But unlike what it seems most international students have done I did prior research I understood the risks of packing up a pretty sweet career path to move to canada and it didn't work out so I have to accept that because I know I dont make the rules and actually have no say in them at all.

If you came to canada without the understanding your status here could be revoked at any time then sorry but that is no one elses fault but your own.

and trust me with unemployment at 6% and rising I'm going to say about 95% (cause there are probably some jobs out there that struggle to find canadians) of PGWP holders are "stealing" jobs from canadians or do you think you were the only one to apply for your job? If so then you should be eligible for a LMIA which is exactly how the system is designed.

 

[GARJ]

Firstly you obviously havent read my previous posts where I have mentioned I'm currently in canada on an IEC but only have a couple of weeks left.

Secondly you ignore the point that PGWP holder get favoured through the sole fact they are given three year work permits. This allows them to gain extra points each year during their work experience. It also gives them 3 years to find an employer that will support them in an LMIA or PNP application.

I got one year, so I get no extra points because I'll only have 8 months work experience in canada but I'm not complaining that I should get better treatment, hell I've trained several canadians to do my job better than any canadian education seemed to do it. But unlike what it seems most international students have done I did prior research I understood the risks of packing up a pretty sweet career path to move to canada and it didn't work out so I have to accept that because I know I dont make the rules and actually have no say in them at all.

If you came to canada without the understanding your status here could be revoked at any time then sorry but that is no one elses fault but your own.

and trust me with unemployment at 6% and rising I'm going to say about 95% (cause there are probably some jobs out there that struggle to find canadians) of PGWP holders are "stealing" jobs from canadians or do you think you were the only one to apply for your job? If so then you should be eligible for a LMIA which is exactly how the system is designed.

So you aren't even applying for PR under EE and you are stirring the pot in here? If you want that 3 year work permit we grads are apparently favored with, why don't you come and complete a 2 year program of education too then? You'll get PGWP too and then you'll be "favoured" like we are, all you gotta do is come and study without being able to work full time for two years or more and get high grades and a certificate of completion, they don't just hand them out you know Also, I don't know what conservative news you follow but immigrants are not stealing Canadian jobs period, and 6%+ Canadian unemployment rate is around the same as in US, UK and Australia, let's blame that on the immigrants too, cause everything is their fault.

 

[d.r.]

It's very rare for someone to ask for my opinion.

Not that my opinion matters, but since you asked ....

From what you wrote, especially towards the end, it seems like you don't really care how EE deals with candidates as long as it starts favoring the people in your class, the PGWPs, and giving you what you want. It's the same line screamed by any other PGWP holder: "I deserve PR because I studied and worked here."

Well guess what .... The Government of Canada disagrees. It's their opinion that matters, not yours.

You don't get to evaluate your own self-worth in life. That's not how it works. Others get to evaluate you. If I could get the rewards in my life based on my own assessment of what I deserve, I'd be in the US now.

I hope you're either a millionaire or a movie star because only rich people and those in movies get what they want.

I got the shivers. Nietzsche would be proud of you.

 

[dbss]

**My personal opinion so please no dragging me into the negativity here**

I believe this is a trick of government to get as many votes as possible...People who have a problem with this setup are non-Canadians hence cannot vote, so they don't matter to the government.

If we were to look at anything in the past year or so, legislation were changed on incidents which otherwise would have gone unnoticed. Media has a big role to play in this too where they showcase the immigrants as victims and at the same time show immigration as a menace.

You cannot clap with a single hand hence a few immigrants are to blame as well. They make use of the system unfairly which screws everybody. Greed overtakes and due to their greed everybody suffers.

Coming on to the PGWP, there is good to it and bad to it just like anything else in this world.

On one hand, yes PGWP does take jobs from Canadians but it is not like company only hires PGWP people. Atleast in the corporate world, there is still interviews held for everyone. Everybody is forgetting the fact that even if a PGWP person is hired for a job which should be given to a Canadian, he still has to do the job else the business would suffer. It becomes an issue when people like RBC tried to pull off the scandal about two years ago which if I may add was a corporate decision (CEO probably would have shown a lot of savings and got better paycheck).

Secondly, PGWP people make money and pay taxes and CPP and EI with no real benefit to them if they don't get PR. Where does that money go? No one knows. I know people who paid EI just like anybody else and got denied the benefits because of their work permit. So no, they are not just leeching off the economy.

Thirdly, fresh grads need to get into the market to start their jobs. If anyone of you has a child think about the time when he/she will finish a college or university and go to the market looking for a job. Add to that a different country all together, it is not going to be easy. So if Canadians have trouble, so does other people too. In fact, I know people getting rejected for a position which they were more than capable of doing just because they are not Canadian. There is Charter of Rights for a reason but with the image who are they going to approach.

The issue that needs to be handled and addressed is not temporary workers stealing jobs but nepotism. It is prevalent everywhere and due to it, everybody is suffering including Canadians and temporary workers. Only people you know will get you in. It is everywhere colleges, government jobs everywhere.

On an ending note, yes, personally I feel that PGWP people are being treated unfairly because provincial nominee programs & LMIA is the only way to get PR for sure. What this equates to is that people who may be working menial jobs will still get in whereas the people who have been living here, studied here and are trying to integrate themselves in the Canadian society may not even stand a chance just because they are young. They may be not as experienced as the ones in LMIA but that is not because of their fault. They just need the opportunity, the same opportunity that we all got when we graduated from our schools.

 

[The_Distant_One]

So you aren't even applying for PR under EE and you are stirring the pot in here? If you want that 3 year work permit we grads are apparently favored with, why don't you come and complete a 2 year program of education too then? You'll get PGWP too and then you'll be "favoured" like we are, all you gotta do is come and study without being able to work full time for two years or more and get high grades and a certificate of completion, they don't just hand them out you know Also, I don't know what conservative news you follow but immigrants are not stealing Canadian jobs period, and 6%+ Canadian unemployment rate is around the same as in US, UK and Australia, let's blame that on the immigrants too, cause everything is their fault.

once again wrong. I'm on 410 points, I have full IELTS score, a degree and 3+ years overseas work experience. Also I'm married but my wife is yet to do the english test as we knew that the points wouldnt come under 450 in the next couple of months (I doubt before the election) so we decided to enjoy our last few weekends in Vancouver rather than wasting a whole day doing the IELTS (which she will easily get full points for).

and I looked into doing my MBA here in vancouver just to be able to stay with the benefit of the 3 year PGWP but unfortunately my wife would not be able to work either so we decided against it. So just like every other PGWP should have done, i reasearched the programme and made a decision. If your decision was more havily influenced by the ability to get PR here than you took a large risk that didnt pay off, own up to that decision.

and What do you mean immigrants arent taking canadians jobs? everyone one of us who is in this forum that lives in canada is doing a job that a canadian could do. Apart from those of us who have successfully applied for and recieved and LMIA. and I wasnt blaming the unemployment rate on immigrants, thats a much larger discussion about world economies, but it is a factor as to why PGWP isnt worth more in express entry, at the end of they day you paid for a western education and the opportunity to gain valuable work experience, nothing more.

 

[GARJ]

everyone one of us who is in this forum that lives in canada is doing a job that a canadian could do.

Once I receive PR status, a Canadian resident will be doing the job so problem solved, no job got stolen Best of luck to you, you will get picked eventually too.

 

[The_Distant_One]

Once I receive PR status, a Canadian resident will be doing the job so problem solved, no job got stolen Best of luck to you, you will get picked eventually too.

thanks I hold hopes that we will be back in canada in the next 12 months.

 

[Dilbert]

For those who feel the system is not justified
Add www in front of the link below to access the url .

.change.org/p/citizenship-and-immigration-canada-candidates-on-open-work-permits-and-working-in-canada-need-more-visibility-in-express-entry-system

 

[kateg]

Ur one of those who does not have compassion for people who have spent so much and some have so much loan that their parents may lose their house if they come back to home country.

People who do that have only themselves to blame. Permanent residency was available to some, but it was never promised. They gambled with money they could not afford to gamble with.

Temporary. It's in the title. It's in the study permits - "must leave Canada by [date]". This forum (and many others) are filled with stories of people who were denied their study permits because they had insufficient ties to another country. The officers deny permits to people they worry will not leave upon completion of their studies.

I do not have compassion for those who pay for something, and receive exactly what they paid for, particularly when they are warned - repeatedly - not to expect more, and have to acknowledge that they are not entitled to more.

They paid for - and received - a Canadian-quality education. If they are unable to turn that Canadian degree into a well-paying job, then they are no different than the Canadians who do the same and graduate with debt, or the people in the United States who do the same.

 

[fkl]

everyone one of us who is in this forum that lives in canada is doing a job that a canadian could do. Apart from those of us who have successfully applied for and recieved and LMIA.

It is not just those who have LMIAs. It is even those who are working on LMIA exempt jobs - roles that so specialized that government doesn't believe they even need a certification like LMIA to bring in a foreigner e.g. Post Doc researchers.

Unfortunately, even people like those do not get the 600 score, which i believe are more deserving than the common PGWP lot (because their is virtually no difference between them and LMIA based roles - except that their jobs were already recognized as not needing LMIA).

 

[Dennia]

This response is for my friend Marcus66504, "I have dared many people to show me some document from the Government of Canada that promises direct PR status for anyone who's paid tuition money to a Canadian college. So far, nobody's been able to produce any such document."

This is something that is still available on the CIC site, "The PGWPP allows students who have graduated from a participating Canadian post-secondary institution to gain valuable Canadian work experience. Skilled Canadian work experience gained through the PGWPP helps graduates qualify for permanent residence in Canada through the Canadian Experience Class (CEC)". Reference link : http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/study/work-postgrad.asp

You might call this CIC is marketing their country to get students , but I call this giving fake hopes to young students and parents . Based on the current system a PGWP doesn't qualify you for a PR.

Everyone on this forum are not cribbing or accusing CIC for giving them fake hope, all their demanding is some respect for their contribution to Canadian economy and hardwork. Whether they get their PR or not entirely depends on their qualification,but every International students does deserve a shot.