Employer harassment - My story - HELP

[Brinbc]

Indeed, this boss of yours is piece of work. And sooner or later he will end up in soup because not only your former boss is a crook, he is stupid as well. I just want that when he ends up in soup, and authorities review his entire business and find ALL those whom he sponsored for LMIA, he does not ends up dragging you with him because you immigrated based on his job offer and/or experience in his business.

I also believe that he is going to be in a bad place.
Well in relation to the lmia employees I find a bit hard to believe that any judge would drag back to all of us as we were in the other side of the story.

But most of all I think that the situation is in a bit of a impasse, like this:

- if I report him it MIGHT be a problem for me.
-he has no way to charge me the $3000 unless he commits fraud himself
-if he tries to file any kind of document or letter that he forged or forced me to sign he is going to be in a lot of trouble too as I have plenty of evidence of his misconduct.

So honestly I’m considering just blocking his numbers, applying for a gun license for personal protection and, as we say in Brazil. “Sleeping with an eye open”.

I feel very bad for the Persian, he is my friend and suffered together with me, once he sent us to do a job in Victoria that took a total of 15.5 hours (discounted the travel time, 19 hours If included travel) and with no pause for lunch or breaks.
But I guess it is what it is.

 

[YVR123]

But you know the right thing to do back then was to report him and leave Canada. Try to apply for PR using your other experience and education.
You were part of his illegal labour scheme. So if he's found gulity, your PR would likely be affect unless your lawyer can work out some deal with IRCC. (Not sure if that's possible as withness of a large immigration fault case.)

 

[Brinbc]

But you know the right thing to do back then was to report him and leave Canada. Try to apply for PR using your other experience and education.
You were part of his illegal labour scheme. So if he's found gulity, your PR would likely be affect unless your lawyer can work out some deal with IRCC. (Not sure if that's possible as withness of a large immigration fault case.)

Ok so should I stick to my plan of blocking him and moving on with my life ?

 

[YVR123]

Ok so should I stick to my plan of blocking him and moving on with my life ?

I would consult with a lawyer. But it's up to you.

 

[GandiBaat]

Ok so should I stick to my plan of blocking him and moving on with my life ?

You have two items for yourself IMHO.

1. Sort out your immigration situation in Canada by consulting a lawyer. Ask a lawyer to evaluate your case for potential issues. You lawyer is bound by lawyer client privilege, AFAIK. They cann't divulge your case to anyone.

2. Block your former boss out of reaching you. Block him from your phone, ensure he does not know where you live and cannot reach you.

Rest, I don't think I can suggest anything because my skin is not in the game ie I am not bearing the consequences. Suggesting anything else will be morally wrong for me. I believe one should not preach without bearing the consequences of one's own preaching.

 

[Brinbc]

You have two items for yourself IMHO.

1. Sort out your immigration situation in Canada by consulting a lawyer. Ask a lawyer to evaluate your case for potential issues. You lawyer is bound by lawyer client privilege, AFAIK. They cann't divulge your case to anyone.

2. Block your former boss out of reaching you. Block him from your phone, ensure he does not know where you live and cannot reach you.

Rest, I don't think I can suggest anything because my skin is not in the game ie I am not bearing the consequences. Suggesting anything else will be morally wrong for me. I believe one should not preach without bearing the consequences of one's own preaching.

Thank you for your kind words and support.
Yes that’s what I’m going to do, I’m trying to get in touch with a lawyer and I’m ignoring any kind of messages from him.

if he mentions anything that puts my family in danger I’m reaching the cops ASAP.
For the past days I’ve been thinking a lot about the problem and even though I want to help my friend it would be a huge hassle to deal.

let’s see what the lawyer says

 

[Brinbc]

[UPDATE]
Talked to a lawyer.

He confirmed what we have been discussing here.
In his words:
“I understand and I am sorry for all the abuse you suffered, but unfortunately this can be interpreted in a bad way both for me and my employer. If you report ircc they will investigate all the lmias from that company which can put yours in harm. But if he tries to report to ircc he is going to bring that on him too.
So basically you both are locked in a room and the only weapon you can use is a grenade, if you use it you will also blew yourself”

so he said that for the 3000 dollars he has no way to charge me for that, and because of that o should just keep ignoring any messages from him.
As for all the evidence, I must keep it with me, if one day he tries anything against me this will be used as my defense.

Honestly, that puts an end of my concerns but I am still very stressed.
I don’t know what’s going to happen but I believe he is not an idiot and won’t pull the pin out of the grenade.

 

[scylla]

[UPDATE]
Talked to a lawyer.

He confirmed what we have been discussing here.
In his words:
“I understand and I am sorry for all the abuse you suffered, but unfortunately this can be interpreted in a bad way both for me and my employer. If you report ircc they will investigate all the lmias from that company which can put yours in harm. But if he tries to report to ircc he is going to bring that on him too.
So basically you both are locked in a room and the only weapon you can use is a grenade, if you use it you will also blew yourself”

so he said that for the 3000 dollars he has no way to charge me for that, and because of that o should just keep ignoring any messages from him.
As for all the evidence, I must keep it with me, if one day he tries anything against me this will be used as my defense.

Honestly, that puts an end of my concerns but I am still very stressed.
I don’t know what’s going to happen but I believe he is not an idiot and won’t pull the pin out of the grenade.

I agree with your lawyer now that I've read through the more detailed info you provided. Reporting your employer could land you in trouble since you committed misrepresentation to get PR. You'll just have to hope IRCC never finds out and never decides to take action.

 

[Brinbc]

I won't get into the debate about whether you could be regarded as a co-conspirator along with your former employer in terms of committing immigration fraud. An immigration lawyer should probably be able to advise on that score. You might be viewed a not altogether lily white and not coming with "clean hands".

Separate from immigration issues are more straightforward employment issues. From what I gather, you were offered and accepted employment at $23.50 per hour. So, as a matter of contract law, you have a shot at enforcing that bargain. It does not sound like you freely agreed to vary the contract.

I would suggest a complaint to the provincial Employment Standards Branch. You have several potential claims:

1. To enforce the agreed wage.

2. To recover overtime pay, even if you can be held to a wage of $18 per hour. It sounds like you worked days of more than 8 hours on occasion and maybe some weeks over 40 hours.

3. Improper deductions from wages. The employer may deduct from your wages only statutory deductions. The employer may not deduct amounts claimed as owing to the employer, even if you agreed to the deduction.

I also suspect you may not have been paid vacation pay at 4% of gross as required by the Act and you perhaps were not paid properly for statutory holidays, some of which you no doubt qualified for.

In support of the above propositions, I refer to a couple of references to the Act:

Overtime wages for employees not working under an averaging agreement

40 (1)
An employer must pay an employee who works over 8 hours a day, and is not working under an averaging agreement under section 37,
(a)
1 1/2 times the employee's regular wage for the time over 8 hours, and
(b)
double the employee's regular wage for any time over 12 hours.
(2)
An employer must pay an employee who works over 40 hours a week, and is not working under an averaging agreement under section 37, 1 1/2 times the employee's regular wage for the time over 40 hours.
(3)
For the purpose of calculating weekly overtime under subsection (2), only the first 8 hours worked by an employee in each day are counted, no matter how long the employee works on any day of the week.

Deductions

21 (1)
Except as permitted or required by this Act or any other enactment of British Columbia or Canada, an employer must not, directly or indirectly, withhold, deduct or require payment of all or part of an employee's wages for any purpose.
(2)
An employer must not require an employee to pay any of the employer's business costs except as permitted by the regulations.
(3)
Money required to be paid contrary to subsection (2) is deemed to be wages, whether or not the money is paid out of an employee's gratuities, and this Act applies to the recovery of those wages.

If you go to Employment Standards, go sooner rather than later. The Director under the Act can recover amounts owed, but there's a limitation. The Director can reach back maximum of 12 months from the date of the complaint or the last day of your employment. In your case, the 12-month period started to run when you left the gangster's employment, so the amount that can be recovered drops daily. See s. 80:

Limit on amount of wages required to be paid
80 (1)The amount of wages an employer may be required by a determination to pay an employee is limited to the amount that became payable in the period beginning
(a)in the case of a complaint, 12 months before the earlier of the date of the complaint or the termination of the employment, and
(b)in any other case, 12 months before the director first told the employer of the investigation that resulted in the determination,
plus interest on those wages.

As for time for filing, see:

Complaint and time limit
74 (1)An employee, former employee or other person may complain to the director that a person has contravened
(a)a requirement of Parts 2 to 8 of this Act, or
(b)a requirement of the regulations specified under section 127 (2) (l).
(2)A complaint must be in writing and must be delivered to an office of the Employment Standards Branch.
(3)A complaint relating to an employee whose employment has terminated must be delivered under subsection (2) within 6 months after the last day of employment.

Lastly, you mention "applying for a gun license for personal protection". Two observations there, if I may: (i) I think you know little about Canadian gun laws; (ii) a bad idea in any event.

My friend thank you for the advice.
I am in touch with a lawyer and he made me aware of all the implications.
I plan to leave it for now as I don’t want this stress in my life anymore. I know about all the abuses on his side as well as all the misconducts regarding the employment contract.
But if going after these rights would put my Pr at risk (even a little bit) I prefer to leave it.
If he decides to try something on me, I have plenty of evidence, from text messages demanding money to witnesses, bank transactions records, emails with lawyers, pictures, videos and even a recording of him saying that he sold LMIA for other people in the past.
Again, I feel sorry for the guy who is still there but I guess I can’t do anything about it (at least not safely).


oh... and about the gun... I should have made more clear it was just a joke I know this is not Texas hehehe

 

[raj90]

Hey guys how are you doing?



I was active in the August aor 2020 group but left since I got my PR on March 25th.

I want to share my story with you guys and ask for advice, if you can please leave me a piece of advice on my situation will help me a lot.



Sorry but I wrote this in a very casual and sometimes very personal way, I tried to put into words exactly how I would tell this story if we were chatting in person.





I arrived in Canada with my wife for work in November 2018, when I started working in the company that provided me my LMIA and subsequent work permit.At that time I needed the Job Offer / LMIA to give me enough points to apply for the PR.



The problems started in the beginning of the job offer, when my boss said that he was only doing the lmia process if I pay for everything, which I did without thinking twice because that was my way to immigrate to Canada and I was willing to pay the lawyer fees + taxes. (Over 5K Cad)



Our deal was: he does the lmia for me and I work there for the entire contract (2 years) after that I can go work anywhere I want, and that was ok for me, he said that the salary was low in the beginning but would give me raises as I progress in the job, which for me was fine too. [NOTE: on my work permit I can only work for this company, the position is admin officer and the minimum pay is $23.50/hour - 40 hours a week]



When I started the work I noticed that it was a mistake, it was never an office position, the company installs countertops so he would send me on various tasks during the day, sometimes with him, most of the times doing installation with the installation crew.

The job is heavy and I was the only English speaker in the whole company (everybody else only spoke Chinese) and had to follow orders in a very disorienting way in an environment that I was not familiar.



So put yourself in my position:

An Office guy (I was a lawyer back home!), coming for an office job in Canada and then you get a job carrying countertops (some islands weight more than 300lbs!) with people you don’t know, in a language you don’t know and to be worst the hours were insane, and did I mention no extra overtime?

Every two weeks we would work for around 110 hours, which you can think it’s fine, but again remember that it is 110 hours of stone carrying, how does that sounds now?



But it get worst, when I receive my payment I discovered what “the pay is low” meant, I wasn’t getting paid $23.50/hour as it says in my lmia, I was getting paid $18/hour!!! So basically on every paycheque my boss would print an excell sheet showing how much money I would have to pay him back!!!! (To meet the required $23.50 of the LmIa)

Usually, after paying him I would take home $600-$900 every 2 weeks... for 110+ hours... to live in Vancouver with a wife... let that sink in.



Don’t worry my friend, it gets worse! I was quite disappointed with this situation, being broke and the abuse I was suffering there.

Then one night in December my wife was going to meet me downtown to grab some food and she was a victim of a hit and run.

She broke her arm, cracked her ribs, hurt kidneys, lungs, liver, stomach, but thank God she survived and now is fine.

Yes, when things were so bad I was not counting on that.



So now I was responsible for the household, and I was making this incredible salary of $1600ish a month in Vancouver where my rent is $1500 alone.



Basically I went through all my savings, borrowed money from parents so we could stay here in Canada. I had no option because this was our way to Canada so I put myself together, worked as hard as I could and took care of my wife, it wasn’t easy, it was the darkest time of my life, I was working 12 hour days and then coming home to take care of her, shower her, prepare dinner and her lunch and then spend a little time with her and go to bed.



I almost went insane, I went into “secret depression” I told myself I could be depressed as long as nobody knew, so my commute to work was my “me time” and the shower at home was the only place I could cry (yeah it sucks but I did that a lot). From around January to March of 2019 I was desperately broke, I sold everything I had and still wasn’t able to make ends meet, so I had to “cut” my lunches as a way to save money, shit that was fucked up, usually on lunch time the crew would stop somewhere to eat and I would stay in the van and try to drink as much water I could so I would have the sensation of a full belly... and dudes... dont try that ok?because that sucks! Hahaha



So after my wife healed (more than 6 months) she found work and works in an amazing company since then, but our problem persisted as I could not leave my work or I would lose my work permit and consequently wouldn’t be able to apply for the PR.



My boss hired another guy through the same program, he is also a “slave” like me and we would spend some time during the day having fun and trying our best to create jokes out of the fucked up situation we were into. He is a Persian guy, have a wife and a little boy, and is struggling with the job, the pay and the harassment just like me.



When it comes to me and the Persian in that company WE HAVE NO CHOICE, if you don’t do what they tell you he will threaten to fire you and cancel your WP/VISA and that’s how he manipulates and controls us.

We both did more than 18 hours in one single day with just one 15 min stop for lunch! We got hurt and had to hide from any inspector, we had to work with HIPER UNSANITARY CONDITIONS (I had to buy my own respirator because they made me cut Quartz without it), we were not only being underpaid but also getting a cut on our paycheque, basically whatever he wants we need to do or else he fires us and cancels the visa. This kind of stuff eats you from the inside, little by little you start to act different, think different, you are not as confident as before and you see yourself slowly spiralling into fear, anxiety, depression and nothing but bad thoughts, whenever you have free time you don’t want even to exist.



August 2020 comes and I have enough points (and money) to apply for the Pr, nothing changed in my work and I still work long and fucked up hours, Persian guy is still there too.

I apply with my wife and we have to wait.



The wait was very frustrating (7.5months) and didn’t helped at all with my anxiety and depression, but there’s always sunshine after a storm and on March 25th I received my COPR and I can’t put into words the feeling, I was jumping inside the apartment like a little kid.

I called my wife to give the news and we both cried on the phone, I didn’t felt alive like that for a long time in my life.



Immigration was a hell of a ride.







Well now that you know the “basics” of my immigration, here is my new dilemma.



As I explained before my boss would extort me by taking money out of my paycheque every month, making my pay that was already low go even lower.

Now since I received the PR I told him I was leaving a d he is trying to DEMAND THAT I PAY A SUPPOSED BALANCE of my paycheques.

He’s asking for 3k!!!



Honestly my friends, after all I have been through... I’m not paying an illegal debt! I’m tired of this and now I am a free man. I should never even paid him any of this s*** that he demanded in the past, but as I said I was depressed, desperate and was afraid.



In your opinion what should I do?

Thank you for your time

If you guys need more information please let me know

Things we have to do for getting PR...i also dont kniw whether it is worth doing it. Since we have in mind that PR can make our life better..nothing..until you are born here..whole life we will be immigrants..remember our hardwork and struggle...the best thing is we feel this because we are educated enough, we should be illetrate and come to Canada..those people dont feel loke you feel, i feel and many more feel. If we complain to Ircc they may look into these kind of LMIas and other people may not get their "dream" come true. I know who recently got PR for 50000$ package. PR is a business, nothing else for employees as well as govt.

 

[Brinbc]

Things we have to do for getting PR...i also dont kniw whether it is worth doing it. Since we have in mind that PR can make our life better..nothing..until you are born here..whole life we will be immigrants..remember our hardwork and struggle...the best thing is we feel this because we are educated enough, we should be illetrate and come to Canada..those people dont feel loke you feel, i feel and many more feel. If we complain to Ircc they may look into these kind of LMIas and other people may not get their "dream" come true. I know who recently got PR for 50000$ package. PR is a business, nothing else for employees as well as govt.

I can see that you spoke from your heart and you said nothing but the truth.
Life is not easy for us immigrants, but I believe in God and I believe he chooses our challenges based on our strength.

I know what he did was wrong, but now it’s over and I can move on with my life. Not seeing his face ever again will already be enough for me.

 

[Brinbc]

Yes, that is why I suggested listening to your lawyer about the immigration implications.

I would observe that the provincial Employment Standards Branch will have no interest in the immigration aspects of the matter and filing a complaint there is very unlikely to result in any scrutiny by IRCC. The only way that might happen is if the employer decided to talk to IRCC about you in retaliation for your complaining to Employment Standards. But that seems unlikely, given that IRCC is almost certain to take a dim view of his conduct, which is more egregious than yours.

All the same, sometimes just better to move on.

totally agree, as I said before I’m not willing to harm myself just to go after him.
Just as Beatles taught us:

“let it be”

 

[GandiBaat]

I agree with your lawyer now that I've read through the more detailed info you provided. Reporting your employer could land you in trouble since you committed misrepresentation to get PR. You'll just have to hope IRCC never finds out and never decides to take action.

totally agree, as I said before I’m not willing to harm myself just to go after him.
Just as Beatles taught us:

“let it be”

The problem does not end here. See, the other party (your boss) is also greedy and to be honest stupid. Greedy because he was asking for 3K when he had drained you dry in past year or so. Stupid (may be ignorant) because if he is running a scam like this, he should atleast ensure that it is not drawing attention to his misdeeds by threatening people like yourself. Once you got your PR, he should have just kept quite and let you go with a warm handshake. Totally. Sooner or later his greed or stupidity will catch up with him. You have no control over when and if that happens. Trouble for you is when that happens, you may also end up being on hook. When it happens? No one knows.

If you are going to sit on it, from the looks of it, you will, bear in mind that you may end up in a situation (in worst case) with your PR and/or Citizenship revoked. Trouble with sitting on this little secret is that its not just your secret. Its a secret between two people, one of whom is an idiot (your boss). And such things are no secrets. If I were you, I will look to establish myself in a different country with a totally clean slate somewhere down the line and this time, do it completely right way. Life built on a fragile secret is a fragile life.

As they say, "The bill always comes due".

 

[Brinbc]

The problem does not end here. See, the other party (your boss) is also greedy and to be honest stupid. Greedy because he was asking for 3K when he had drained you dry in past year or so. Stupid (may be ignorant) because if he is running a scam like this, he should atleast ensure that it is not drawing attention to his misdeeds by threatening people like yourself. Once you got your PR, he should have just kept quite and let you go with a warm handshake. Totally. Sooner or later his greed or stupidity will catch up with him. You have no control over when and if that happens. Trouble for you is when that happens, you may also end up being on hook. When it happens? No one knows.

If you are going to sit on it, from the looks of it, you will, bear in mind that you may end up in a situation (in worst case) with your PR and/or Citizenship revoked. Trouble with sitting on this little secret is that its not just your secret. Its a secret between two people, one of whom is an idiot (your boss). And such things are no secrets. If I were you, I will look to establish myself in a different country with a totally clean slate somewhere down the line and this time, do it completely right way. Life built on a fragile secret is a fragile life.

As they say, "The bill always comes due".

I see what you mean.
The point that “calms me down” is that he has a lot to loose too (he did other lmias before and did the same with other people, plus the other guy still working there.

He would be a fool to try to take any legal action against me or my Pr. I understand that in a worst case scenario the situation could lead to extreme consequences (like revoking the pr). But I also understand that this would happen after a fair trial and after I present my defense.
Also, wouldn’t be just against me as I have evidence that he did that to multiple people as he did this scam with others.

 

[GandiBaat]

Things we have to do for getting PR...i also dont kniw whether it is worth doing it. Since we have in mind that PR can make our life better..nothing..until you are born here..whole life we will be immigrants..remember our hardwork and struggle...the best thing is we feel this because we are educated enough, we should be illetrate and come to Canada..those people dont feel loke you feel, i feel and many more feel. If we complain to Ircc they may look into these kind of LMIas and other people may not get their "dream" come true. I know who recently got PR for 50000$ package. PR is a business, nothing else for employees as well as govt.

Well, Immigration is hard and bad. Its less bad in countries like Canada etc but at the end of the day its troublesome because it puts too much at stake. Actually, if one immigrates to Canada on misrepresentation AND later gets a citizenship he is in a massive harms way. Misrepresentation is the only thing which can make your Citizenship go away and render you stateless. Nothing else can do it! But yes, by doing that you can make yourself stateless. And that is one of the worst outcome.