Email from CIC that PR card renewal needs secondary review

[Ctm]

Mine is a tricky case you can say messy case, I just called CIC few mins back and as I am outside of Canada the CIC agent said the letter was sent out last week saying I need to apply for Travel Document and I am currently in US....
And I have to submit that Travel Document by Sept.....Hummm. Confused and worried now

But atleast things are moving for me.

@Dreamszalone,

Can I know what number of CIC that you call from the US? The CIC number I found from CIC website mentioned that it can only be called within Canada, and true enough, it couldn't be called from the US (San Diego)...
Thank you

 

[osamaamany]

@ Dreamszalone,

Can I know what number of CIC that you call from the US? The CIC number I found from CIC website mentioned that it can only be called within Canada, and true enough, it couldn't be called from the US (San Diego)...
Thank you

call 001-613-944-4000

 

[mero1984]

Hello guys, great discussion; especially ASDSD post.

My friend landed in 2008, he could not stay the whole time and actually returned in 2012 to live in canada. His PR expired in 2013 so he waited until 2014 and applied for renewal for PR card. it has been a year since he applied. 4 months ago (in march 2015) he received the following letter: "processing delay" and it also stated that "preliminary review has been completed for my application and they have now referred my file for a secondary review and this will cause additional delay in processing time." They did not ask for any additional information.

do you have any idea what does that mean? is this the cooling off period? since that time he didnt hear from them anything at all. Of course, from 2012 until 2014 he lived every single day in Canada. Do you have any thoughts? I really appreciate your help.

 

[mero1984]

Anyone?

 

[Msafiri]

Hello guys, great discussion; especially ASDSD post.

My friend landed in 2008, he could not stay the whole time and actually returned in 2012 to live in canada. His PR expired in 2013 so he waited until 2014 and applied for renewal for PR card. it has been a year since he applied. 4 months ago (in march 2015) he received the following letter: "processing delay" and it also stated that "preliminary review has been completed for my application and they have now referred my file for a secondary review and this will cause additional delay in processing time." They did not ask for any additional information.

do you have any idea what does that mean? is this the cooling off period? since that time he didnt hear from them anything at all. Of course, from 2012 until 2014 he lived every single day in Canada. Do you have any thoughts? I really appreciate your help.

There isn't really a stated timeline for Secondary Review so all your friend can do is wait although last case law I saw on this gave a circa 12-18 month timeline for CIC to deal with. This is likely to drop off as the Local CIC's deal with a reduced citizenship application case-load due to new residence requirements. There is the option of either involving the MP (cheap) or going for Mandamus which is a judicial process to compel CIC to speed up processing (expensive and likely to lose). What was he/she doing for the 2 years that proves physical presence? Best evidence is employment in a job requiring you to physical show up say 40 hrs/week for a bona fide company operating in compliance with Federal/Provincial labour laws so they pay their taxes and give you wages via traceable means. Not some mom and pops cash in hand set up. Seems CIC doubt the declared 730 days - usually they issue PR Cards without any issues despite the PR potentially being in breach prior to their return to Canada then holding off an application till they are back in RO compliance. Does your friend have a co-current citizenship application in place?

 

[mero1984]

The problem is that they never asked him for any additional documents to prove he was here!! they just said :Secondary review! Thats it.
considering he is an immigrant, yes of course has another citizenship of his country.

 

[Msafiri]

The problem is that they never asked him for any additional documents to prove he was here!! they just said :Secondary review! Thats it.
considering he is an immigrant, yes of course has another citizenship of his country.

I'm referring to an application for Canadian Citizenship. His file is in the 'pending' tray but to repeat it seems CIC have issues with his declared residence days or more unlikely have picked his file for program compliance review (I doubt it as this would have been resolved by now). Nobody knows why this is the case but its a well known fact that active residence such as the job I describe is more acceptable to CIC compared to passive residence e.g bank statements because for the former you have to physically be in Canada but the latter you don't. CIC will either issue PR Card without further enquiries, ask for specific documents and or/issue a residence questionnaire or call your friend for an interview...they will do this at their own pace.

 

[mero1984]

I hope that friends here will update their timeline to know how long does "their own pace" take. I hope they have one iota of consideration for people who have business abroad and need the PR to be able to obtain visas and the like.

 

[Msafiri]

I hope that friends here will update their timeline to know how long does "their own pace" take. I hope they have one iota of consideration for people who have business abroad and need the PR to be able to obtain visas and the like.

As harsh as it sounds its not CIC's business to make your personal or business travel life easier by processing non routine applications in a timetable meeting your needs. Unfortunately processing times for non routine PR Card applications are not of a high enough profile/ importance to say for the voting public so there is very little public opinion or political pressure bearing on CIC to speed this up. Even if there was its hard to say why a case has been referred to SR...maybe your friend's case is on the face of it easily flagged for further review. The only way to expedite the application is to either get a judicial process via the Mandamus route or go to the MP and see if they can 'help' speed things along by making enquiries.

 

[barabashka]

The only way to expedite the application is to either get a judicial process via the Mandamus route or go to the MP and see if they can 'help' speed things along by making enquiries.

I wonder if another approach to speed up a "stuck" secondary review case could work. If let's say someone is confident enough in his/her physical presence days in Canada (and his/her ability to prove that) to meet RO, and the case is stuck in secondary review - would a short trip abroad to apply for PRTD (and issuance of such TD by a consulate across the border) speed up the process?
What would be a point in secondary review after issuance of PRTD?

I understand that would be a last resource - but if the case is stuck and person is confident in his/her RO...why not?

 

[dpenabill]

I wonder if another approach to speed up a "stuck" secondary review case could work. If let's say someone is confident enough in his/her physical presence days in Canada (and his/her ability to prove that) to meet RO, and the case is stuck in secondary review - would a short trip abroad to apply for PRTD (and issuance of such TD by a consulate across the border) speed up the process?
What would be a point in secondary review after issuance of PRTD?

I understand that would be a last resource - but if the case is stuck and person is confident in his/her RO...why not?

The PR who for sure is in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, and has no other admissibility issues (criminality or security related), who carries some documentation to support/prove he or she has in fact been present in Canada (evidence of employment and filing taxes is good), can indeed go abroad and when needing to return to Canada can apply for a PR Travel Document and should be issued the PR TD.

A PR in compliance can generally travel abroad and obtain a PR TD for purposes of returning to Canada.

Remember, compliance is always determined as of the date of the application. So the five year time period at issue for the PR TD application will NOT be the same period in question for the PR card application.

Thus, for example, the issuance of a PR TD will not necessarily change the processing timeline for the PR card application. As others noted, reasons for secondary review can vary. Secondary review is not necessarily about CIC pursuing a full blown Residency Determination.

That said, the referral to Secondary Review should ordinarily not take an extraordinary long time unless CIC has identified a particular issue of substance (something more than what might merely trigger Secondary Review, which could even be random) . . . and if CIC has identified an issue of substance, that needs to be resolved.

Unless the PR is very certain of his or her status and ability to prove he or she is in compliance with the PR RO, it might be risky to travel abroad during Secondary Review . . . remember, the PR abroad who is not in possession of a valid PR card is presumed to not have valid PR status.

Another option is to make a new application. For a PR who applied with just barely more than 730 days presence, who has remained in Canada while that application was pending, and six months or more have passed, might be better off making a new application for the PR card. While Secondary Review might again be imposed, it may be a faster overall route if the six months additional presence makes an obvious difference.

 

[Ctm]

call 001-613-944-4000

Thanks, but can't call that number either. It's either silence for a few minutes and after that it stops; or "please check the number and try again".
Where did you call that number from? I tried to call from US and Europe (ask friends to check different places).

 

[Msafiri]

I wonder if another approach to speed up a "stuck" secondary review case could work. If let's say someone is confident enough in his/her physical presence days in Canada (and his/her ability to prove that) to meet RO, and the case is stuck in secondary review - would a short trip abroad to apply for PRTD (and issuance of such TD by a consulate across the border) speed up the process?
What would be a point in secondary review after issuance of PRTD?

I understand that would be a last resource - but if the case is stuck and person is confident in his/her RO...why not?

1. As alluded to by dpenabill a PRTD application will not necessarily have any impact on a PR Card renewal under Secondary Review (SR). The 'on hold' PR Card renewal and the PRTD applications are reviewing different 5 year windows. Sometimes the difference in timeline might cover the 'area/days of concern' for CIC. Without knowing the specifics of the case and why the PRC card renewal went to SR hard to call. This especially if its related to residency fraud as opposed to a clarification on dates.

2. I've seen on this forum though PRs successfully apply for PRTDs when under SR. Conversely there was a PR who had over 1400 days of physical presence in Canada prior to her PRTD application that had her PRTD denied and was stuck outside Canada for 6 months. She got her MP involved but was never able to get to the bottom of why she was refused a PRTD...my advice to her back then was for her to submit a citizenship application and include in the application details of the incorrectly denied PRTD as her reason for urgent processing so she could get the 6 month delay deducted from her citizenship processing time.

3. If I was a PR with my PR Card renewal under SR then I would sit tight in Canada as the first option. If I really had to leave e.g getting married (not just because I fancy a vacation) then I would make sure I had a US visa to facilitate a land border re-entry. But then even that depends on CBP admitting you and on a bad day this could very well be an issue!!

 

[boltz]

There isn't really a stated timeline for Secondary Review so all your friend can do is wait although last case law I saw on this gave a circa 12-18 month timeline for CIC to deal with. This is likely to drop off as the Local CIC's deal with a reduced citizenship application case-load due to new residence requirements. There is the option of either involving the MP (cheap) or going for Mandamus which is a judicial process to compel CIC to speed up processing (expensive and likely to lose). What was he/she doing for the 2 years that proves physical presence? Best evidence is employment in a job requiring you to physical show up say 40 hrs/week for a bona fide company operating in compliance with Federal/Provincial labour laws so they pay their taxes and give you wages via traceable means. Not some mom and pops cash in hand set up. Seems CIC doubt the declared 730 days - usually they issue PR Cards without any issues despite the PR potentially being in breach prior to their return to Canada then holding off an application till they are back in RO compliance. Does your friend have a co-current citizenship application in place?

Msafiri:

How does this point affect the PR renewal application? Can you elaborate more on this. My citz appln is in process; and My PR is expiring soon (before the current timeline for citz grant) - since I intend to maintain the right immigration status at all times, I am planning to submit the PR renewal application. Do you see this an issue?

Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Msafiri]

Msafiri:

How does this point affect the PR renewal application? Can you elaborate more on this. My citz appln is in process; and My PR is expiring soon (before the current timeline for citz grant) - since I intend to maintain the right immigration status at all times, I am planning to submit the PR renewal application. Do you see this an issue?

Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

Back in mid 2012 CIC not only started a ramp up in issuing RQs for citizenship applications in place but there was a trend of some of these applicants being issued RQs for PR Card renewals as part of a Secondary Review process with some to also include in person interviews. If CIC RQ you for both your citizenship and PR Card renewal then you are high up their list for residency concerns for at least a 5 year window hence my query to the OP so it can be ascertained (not absolutely I hasten to add) how much of an issue to CIC their residency may be. Given that one of the pre-requisites for a successful citizenship application is that there be no issues on your PR status an investigation into this PR if it leads to a sec 44 report means the citizenship application is on hold or can be closed off. CIC now want to deal with residency fraud at the PR level - the IRPA as it is with harsh penalties gives them the tools to do this that the previous Citizenship Act did not.