Educational Qualification to be Eligible for one of the 29 Occupations?

[Kay2]

Hello. I have a very basic yet least discussed question, the answer to which might help many others too.

Does an applicant have to have specific or specialist educational qualification related to the occupation under which they're claiming eligibility (after having worked in that occupation for 12 months)?

For example, consider this scenario: There may be certain accredited, specialist educational/training qualifications available, even at university level, for Chefs (NOC 6241) and Cooks (NOC 6242). Yet a large number of them would have informally learnt and mastered skills required to do their job. Many of them might even have acquired their skills on the job. Similar case is possible in 0631 - Restaurant and food service managers, 1233 - Insurance adjusters and claim examiners, 4152 – Social workers, and trade occupations such as NOCs 7215, 7216 and 7251. Would it be a fair assessment if I said that a generic qualification with on-job learning and at least 12 months full time continuous experience in one of the above occupations will be enough to gain basic eligibility? Or: besides the 12 months experience, will a Restaurant manager also have to have an MBA with Hospitality Management or something, an insurance adjuster will need to be finance graduate and a social worker will need whatever is its degree qualification called... perhaps Bachelor's in Sociology/Anthropology etc.?

I'll appreciate any thoughts, especially from senior members of this forum and somebody who might have successfully applied in one of the occupations I have mentioned above.

Thanks

-Kay

 

[Hasni]

I think in each of the NOC, job description, job responsibilities and at the end min educational requirements are clearly mentioned. Thus it clearly means that in order to be eligible for assessment under a certain NOC, you ought to meet the min educational requirements mentioned there.

 

[Kay2]

Thanks Hasni.

My understanding was that those educational requirements are for filling a job vacancy within Canada but if somebody has already acquired experience in past in a different country where such requirements didn't prevail, that applicant's experience will be acceptable by the CIC. I also thought that any information about educational requirements given on HRSDC website was for guidance purposes but it did not constitute the immigration law.

So if you reckon that my assessment is incorrect then I have to respect your opinion for now. Unless somebody else here disagrees with you or you change your mind .

 

[Hasni]

@Kay,
Dont take me as an expert, what i have said is to the best of my knowledge and understanding, no harm in getting a second opinion.

 

[Kay2]

Okay now this is getting interesting (and confusing?). I did a quick Google search for immigration lawyers inside Canada and started contacting them one by one over the phone asking them what I asked in the first post here. Couldn't speak with the lawyer of the firm which has provided this very forum but among the other 5, 2 said that the qualifications are required exactly as mentioned on the HRSDC website, whereas 2 others strongly denied that.

One of the latter 2 said that the HRSDC and the CIC are independent of each other and immigration cases are to be decided according to some IRP Act (rather than HRSDC's guidance for Canadian domestic market), which doesn't strictly mention the qualifications in the cases of all occupations (except perhaps the obviously specific ones such as a dentist or a physician etc.)

The last one (who also unsuccessfully insisted to charge me blummin $100 through paypal for telephone consultation) said that the specific qualifications as mentioned on HRSDC website for each NOC will be required in case of applying for an AEO or LMO for that particular job. However, if somebody only intends to prove their eligibility by showing past experience gained in a specific occupation in a different country but doesn't intend to take on the same job upon arrival in Canada, then the CIC will only be interested in confirming the authenticity of the experience certificates and the details of the duties performed while gaining such experience.

This is all so mind boggling. Where do we go from here?

 

[mandiebraxton]

I will comment based on my own little knowledge and experience: NOC 4152.

There are two seperate issues to look at:
1. Immigration purposes
2. Career prospects.

For immigration purposes, to apply as a social workeror or Psychologist (skill level A), you must have had at least a university degree.....what CIC failed to mention is degree in WHAT! At the self assessment page, it says 'which of the below describes your JOB category?'. It didn't say education category, the emphasis is on your JOB/DUTIES. So if for instance, I did Bachelor of Economics, but I have for the past 1 year or more been working as a support worker and have performe the some or most of duties of a social worker under the ministerial instructions, (and of course have 67 or more points), then as per the guide, I should qualify for FSW1 as a social worker. Really it would be unfair for CIC to penalize someone who has the required experience and a degree
But the difficulty is if CIO has to weigh the employment prospects of its skilled workers in Canada....you see, social work is a regulated occupation in Canada, where u need to obtain a license from a provincial regulator. The prerequite for registration is a social work degree (except in Ontario where u cld get a license without a social work degree). Rest assured.....somewhere in this forum was eligible with a course not related to social work. Hope I help somehow with this input. Good luck.
Mandie

 

[Kay2]

Thanks Mandie. Your post is certainly informative. I see under your name on the left that you have also applied under an occupation which is a regulated occupation, even though you do not have a specifically social work degree. Therefore, your situation can form the best example/precedent to learn from. Could you please update as soon as you you receive confirmation of your application's acceptance by the CIO Nova Scotia?

Now, I see what you mean by separating the two issues of immigration laws and career prospects. So do you mean that the CIO shall accept our initial applications based on the completeness objectively as per immigration laws, yet at later stages, the case officers may reject the application, regardless of the 67+ points scored, if there aren't good career prospects for us in the occupation under which we claimed eligibility? What if we claim the eligibility under XYZ occupation but reflect that in future we're interested and capable of starting a successful career in a different field: ZYX? I mean, what if an applicant with a degree in economics and experience as social worker gained 6 years ago has now moved on in life by acquiring an MBA or CFA or PhD or friggin KFC or OMG etc... and is very much capable of working in Canada as a financial analyst or something else that those folks do? Would the case officer not think: okay, this person may not have good prospects to work as a social worker in Canada but can certainly be more productive member of the Canadian society in a different profession?

 

[mandiebraxton]

Kay, I do have Masters in social work, I was just trying to make a point in my earlier post. I really don't know what other factors CIC takes into consideration apart from language, age, experience etc. Have you wondered if for instance, even with Economics degree but experience in social worker, one applies for FSW2 (bcos they got a job as social worker), this issues of education vs experience would have reared its head?

Surely,people must have moved from occupation to occupation, and CIC knows this. That is why an applicant can apply under more than one NOC so far as they meet the requirement. So if I should take your example, the person can apply under any NOC related to his experiece. You can apply as a Social Worker (NO 4152), and you did at least a yr's stint as financial analyst,you can also go for Professional Occupations in Business Services to Management (NOC 1122, sorry cap reached ) in one go. This person has to indicate to CIC which is his preference.
In sum, if you have experience in more than one occupation listed under the 29, you can apply under all of these provided u h have at least 1 yr experience. More to the point, what is the NOC in question?
Mandie

 

[Pippin]

Perhaps this is what you ar looking for??

On pg 41, OP 6 Manual (12.13 EXPERIENCE. Officers must .... not take into account whether the applicant meets the ―Employment requirements‖ description set forth in the NOC for the occupation(s) listed (R80(3)); award points only if the applicant has performed the actions described in the lead statement of the particular NOC description and has performed at least a substantial number of the duties described in the ―Main Duties‖ summary – including all the essential duties (R80(3));

 

[Kay2]

Have you wondered if for instance, even with Economics degree but experience in social worker, one applies for FSW2 (bcos they got a job as social worker), this issues of education vs experience would have reared its head?

You have a point there. But still, it is all relative then, innit? In absence of clear written instruction for the case officer, their judgment may sway either way.

...an applicant can apply under more than one NOC so far as they meet the requirement...
....You can apply as a Social Worker (NO 4152),... ...you can also go for Professional Occupations in Business Services to Management (NOC 1122, sorry cap reached ) in one go.

Really? Can I tell them that I have experience in more than one of the 29 qualifying occupations and ask them to consider my eligibility on the basis of any of those? Just confirming whether I have understood you correctly. I always had an impression that even if I have experience in more than one of those, I can only nominate one occupation to claim eligibility on. If for some reason (such as: cap reached, poorly written evidence of experience etc.) the CIC decides against accepting the application made on the basis of nominated occupation, I thought, they wouldn't automatically move on to the next qualifying occupation in which I may have 12 months' experience. Guess I was wrong then?

More to the point, what is the NOC in question?

I have just over 4 years of experience in different management roles in business, in addition to about 16 months' experience (about 4 months' part-time + 13 months' full-time) as 'Field Coordinator for Social Work' and 'Station Supervisor' (i.e. social work supervisor). I also have part-time experience of baking pizzas and bullying the staff (i.e. as shift manager) at two major pizza chains for about 4 years (intermittent) during my college days. Not sure though if that would count under NOC 0631 at all or not.

 

[Kay2]

Perhaps this is what you ar looking for??

On pg 41, OP 6 Manual (12.13 EXPERIENCE. Officers must .... not take into account whether the applicant meets the ―Employment requirements...

Aha! Absolutely. Makes real sense. Thanks Pippin.

Any challengers?