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screech339

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Apr 2, 2013
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17-06-2013
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17-06-2013
I have no problem with Fatca, however why should a non us citizen spouse / common law have to share everything to US because of it. As far as I'm concern, US has no business knowing about the non US citizen spouse's banking / finances information. It basically tells americans not to create a joint account with their non-american spouse. We "US government" don't trust non-american spouses.

Remember Obama has enforced the FATCA more than any other presidents. He needs the "extra income from tax cheats" to cover his socialist programs.
 

keesio

VIP Member
May 16, 2012
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Natan said:
FATCA does not raise funds, it COSTS funds. Most of the people who have been caught up in FATCA and FBAR complications would not owe any money to the IRS had they filed their tax forms in a timely manner. U.S. Persons (for tax purposes) have been required to file U.S. tax and FBAR returns for as long as I can remember.

FATCA is not designed to discover tax cheats -- tax evaders employ sophisticated strategies that FATCA does not uncover. So far, only the poor and middle classes have been inconvenienced by FATCA implementation.
The FBAR requirements came about in the 1970s to deter tax evasion.

The entire purpose of FATCA *is* to discover tax cheats. And it has (supposedly) led to the IRS collecting billions of dollars in back taxes and fines from people who wished to become compliant whether via amending returns or by participating in the OVDP (Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program). Though how much if this is negated from the massive operating costs of enforcing the program itself is unclear.
 

alphazip

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May 23, 2013
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keesio said:
The FBAR requirements came about in the 1970s to deter tax evasion.

The entire purpose of FATCA *is* to discover tax cheats. And it has (supposedly) led to the IRS collecting billions of dollars in back taxes and fines from people who wished to become compliant whether via amending returns or by participating in the OVDP (Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program). Though how much if this is negated from the massive operating costs of enforcing the program itself is unclear.
I know of several local people who are U.S. citizens by descent and have never lived in the U.S. who have decided to become "compliant" in the last few years. In each case, the cost was several thousand dollars, some of which, of course, was the fee paid to the accountant. The need for an accountant will be ongoing for most of them, due to the complexity of working with both tax systems and the Canada-U.S. Tax Treaty.
 

keesio

VIP Member
May 16, 2012
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Toronto, Ontario
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App. Filed.......
09-01-2013
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30-01-2013
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11-02-2013
Med's Done....
02-01-2013
Interview........
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12-07-2013
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15-08-2013
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14-10-2013
alphazip said:
In each case, the cost was several thousand dollars, some of which, of course, was the fee paid to the accountant. The need for an accountant will be ongoing for most of them, due to the complexity of working with both tax systems and the Canada-U.S. Tax Treaty.
THIS is what bugs me the most. My actual tax bill to the IRS is usually pretty small every year. But it is the accountant fee that is the killer. Pay 1K in accounting fees to file a tax return where I usually have to pay under $100 or less. Of course there are other headaches to worry about like how much I can contribute to my RRSP and avoiding TSFA, etc but the accountant fees is the most annoying.
 

alphazip

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May 23, 2013
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keesio said:
THIS is what bugs me the most. My actual tax bill to the IRS is usually pretty small every year. But it is the accountant fee that is the killer. Pay 1K in accounting fees to file a tax return where I usually have to pay under $100 or less. Of course there are other headaches to worry about like how much I can contribute to my RRSP and avoiding TSFA, etc but the accountant fees is the most annoying.
I'm still able to do my own returns, but that's because we're retired and haven't yet reached the age where we have to take mandatory IRA withdrawals. Once that happens, I'll have to turn to an accountant, at least for the first year. Although I've completed an FBAR, and didn't find it extremely difficult, I still try to avoid it, mainly by keeping most of our money in the USA and only transferring funds over as needed. It's an inconvenience, but we can live with it.
 

alphazip

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May 23, 2013
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screech339 said:
Remember Obama has enforced the FATCA more than any other presidents. He needs the "extra income from tax cheats" to cover his socialist programs.
Socialist programs in the USA? You do know that you live in Canada, with government-sponsored health care, right? As your hero, Harper, once said: "Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it."
 

screech339

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Apr 2, 2013
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Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
alphazip said:
Socialist programs in the USA? You do know that you live in Canada, with government-sponsored health care, right? As your hero, Harper, once said: "Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it."
Yes. Harper said it right. That was brought on by many decades of liberal government trying to please everyone's interest and political correctness BS that lead to where Canada is now.

Nobody likes to hear the truth because it's true.
 

Natan

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May 22, 2015
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alphazip said:
I'm still able to do my own returns, but that's because we're retired and haven't yet reached the age where we have to take mandatory IRA withdrawals. Once that happens, I'll have to turn to an accountant, at least for the first year. Although I've completed an FBAR, and didn't find it extremely difficult, I still try to avoid it, mainly by keeping most of our money in the USA and only transferring funds over as needed. It's an inconvenience, but we can live with it.
I pay taxes in four countries, and do my taxes myself. It's a time consuming pain in the posterior (I filed 40+ tax returns last year), but it has made me so familiar with the tax codes, and how my finances are impacted by them, that I have learnt how to minimize my tax burden to an embarrassingly tiny amount. Being taxed in the U.S. has proved to be a financial boon. The U.S. is one of the world's finest tax havens and has enabled me to shelter my income from higher tax rates in other countries (almost all other countries have higher tax rates than America).
 

Natan

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May 22, 2015
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screech339 said:
Yes. Harper said it right. That was brought on by many decades of liberal government trying to please everyone's interest and political correctness BS that lead to where Canada is now.

Nobody likes to hear the truth because it's true.
Yes, the liberal programs have provided Canadians with health care, employment insurance, and a welfare system capable of preventing the grinding poverty found just south of the border. Because of Canada's liberal politics and welfare state, Canada is one of the richest countries in the world and Canadians enjoy one of the highest standards of living on the planet. Shame on the liberals for creating such a wonderful society! Shame on them for caring about the welfare of their fellow citizens! Shame on them for being so darned nice! We should strip Trudeau naked, shave his head bald, and make him walk through the streets of Ottawa while Screech339, dressed in black, walks behind him repeatedly tolling a bell and loudly proclaiming "SHAME!"
 

Natan

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
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keesio said:
The FBAR requirements came about in the 1970s to deter tax evasion.

The entire purpose of FATCA *is* to discover tax cheats. And it has (supposedly) led to the IRS collecting billions of dollars in back taxes and fines from people who wished to become compliant whether via amending returns or by participating in the OVDP (Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program). Though how much if this is negated from the massive operating costs of enforcing the program itself is unclear.
Yes, the "stated" purpose is to discover tax cheats, but it hasn't done that -- mostly because the wealthy can afford the attorneys and accountants who can guide them to legal tax avoidance strategies and extralegal tax evasion schemes. What FATCA has mostly done is catch innocent people who were ignorant of the filing requirements in an OVDP net that tricked them into paying onerous tax penalties for failing to file FBAR forms, even when they didn't owe any taxes. Many of those who did owe taxes, owed taxes because of sales of houses or investments in foreign financial instruments that were based on foreign exchange rate computations that bore little relationship to the actual profits/losses incurred. (An example: a house purchased with local dollars (L$) for L$100,000 when L$ 1.00 = US$ 1.00, but sold for L$200,000 when L$1.00 = US$ 0.10 (US$ 20,000), the IRS taxes the entire transaction based on the exchange rate of when the house was purchased. So, even though the house was purchased for US$ 100,000 and sold for US$ 20,000, the IRS taxes a profit of US$ 100,000 -- the difference between the L$ 100,000 buying price and the L$ 200,000 selling price at the L$1 = US$1 exchange rate at the time the house was purchased, even though the value of L$ had fallen 90% between the time the house was purchased and sold.)
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
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Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
Natan said:
Yes, the liberal programs have provided Canadians with health care, employment insurance, and a welfare system capable of preventing the grinding poverty found just south of the border. Because of Canada's liberal politics and welfare state, Canada is one of the richest countries in the world and Canadians enjoy one of the highest standards of living on the planet. Shame on the liberals for creating such a wonderful society! Shame on them for caring about the welfare of their fellow citizens! Shame on them for being so darned nice! We should strip Trudeau naked, shave his head bald, and make him walk through the streets of Ottawa while Screech339, dressed in black, walks behind him repeatedly tolling a bell and loudly proclaiming "SHAME!"
There is a difference between teaching people to be self sufficient and self accountability than teaching people "don't work too hard, we will look after you."

For example, we were taught for years that university education will give you the best pay, job prospects. And now look where we are. A ton of fresh graduates with no jobs available. This pushes the minimum job education requirement up higher. Now instead of "high school graduate" being viewed as someone who will work at Mc Job, now it's the university graduates taking these jobs with high student loans. This forces "high school" grad to go to college / university to compete for the same job.

Liberal policies tend to breed laziness and self-entitlements.
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
Natan said:
Yes, the liberal programs have provided Canadians with health care, employment insurance, and a welfare system capable of preventing the grinding poverty found just south of the border. Because of Canada's liberal politics and welfare state, Canada is one of the richest countries in the world and Canadians enjoy one of the highest standards of living on the planet. Shame on the liberals for creating such a wonderful society! Shame on them for caring about the welfare of their fellow citizens! Shame on them for being so darned nice! We should strip Trudeau naked, shave his head bald, and make him walk through the streets of Ottawa while Screech339, dressed in black, walks behind him repeatedly tolling a bell and loudly proclaiming "SHAME!"
Yes, greatest country in the world with the pathetic arm forces. Hard to defend Canada with a meager force. Easy picking for China / Russia to invade our territory. Hmmm, why are our forces pathetic? Oh yes, liberal rather spend the money on costly social programs at the expense of military budget.

Hard to defend your "best country in the world" when you don't have the military means to actually defend it.
 

Natan

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
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screech339 said:
There is a difference between teaching people to be self sufficient and self accountability than teaching people "don't work too hard, we will look after you."
If you had ever lived on public assistance in Canada or the USA, you would know how untrue this statement is. Study after study has shown that the vast majority of people want to work and will work instead of taking public assistance, whenever that is a viable possibility. That is why some European countries are experimenting with a minimum income whereby people receive a minimum income whether they earn money or not. Studies have consistently shown that providing a livable minimum income increases employment and motivates people who wouldn't otherwise be employed to work. Instead of relying on misleading platitudes, some European countries are putting these studies to the test in the real world. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing the results.

screech339 said:
For example, we were taught for years that university education will give you the best pay, job prospects.
This is patently false. Lower class persons observed that higher paid workers mostly had college educations; thus, a perception that higher education guaranteed a higher income became ingrained in the collective consciousness. The University gods never sent their angels into the skies, streaming sky banners and proclaiming a higher income guarantee for the college educated.

screech339 said:
And now look where we are. A ton of fresh graduates with no jobs available. This pushes the minimum job education requirement up higher. Now instead of "high school graduate" being viewed as someone who will work at Mc Job, now it's the university graduates taking these jobs with high student loans. This forces "high school" grad to go to college / university to compete for the same job.
The lack of high paying jobs in the U.S. is a combination of many things, among them: (i) "free trade" agreements that resulted in the off-shoring of manufacturing jobs; and (ii) the proliferation of low paid service jobs to accomodate greater consumer spending. The interesting thing is that these problems are not occuring in Canada as much, where "liberal" policies have sway; as they are in the U.S., where "conservative" policies have sway... hmm.

screech339 said:
Liberal policies tend to breed laziness and self-entitlements.
It would be FAR more accurate to say that conservative policies punish the poor for being poor by condemning them to greater poverty; and reward the rich for being rich by transferring to them an ever increasing portion of the country's wealth and income.

screech339 said:
Yes, greatest country in the world with the pathetic arm forces. Hard to defend Canada with a meager force. Easy picking for China / Russia to invade our territory. Hmmm, why are our forces pathetic? Oh yes, liberal rather spend the money on costly social programs at the expense of military budget.

Hard to defend your "best country in the world" when you don't have the military means to actually defend it.
Canada has NEVER been able to defend itself from the countries that threatened it's territorial integrity. Canada had to rely on Great Britain to defend it from the U.S. in the past; and more recently relied on the U.S. to protect it from nuclear attack.

It is unreasonable for Canada to present an actual deterrent to Russia or America -- the only two countries who, today, could possibly represent a threat to Canadian territorial integrity, as it would require the building of thousands of nuclear weapons and armed forces consisting of several millions of soldiers. An unnecessary national burden that would needlessly frighten our American neighbours. Most Canadians prefer Canada bristle with "niceness".
 

keesio

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May 16, 2012
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Natan said:
Being taxed in the U.S. has proved to be a financial boon. The U.S. is one of the world's finest tax havens and has enabled me to shelter my income from higher tax rates in other countries (almost all other countries have higher tax rates than America).
I don't understand how this works. For example, I live and work in Canada. So by using the FTC, I get credits from the canadian taxes I pay to apply (to most of) my US tax bill. Often I will have left over credits since the tax rate is higher here. I can carry these credits over to following years. But I don't see the advantage where it shelters my income from Canadian tax rates. I don't see the financial boon. Perhaps I am not using the right tricks.

There are many many countries with a much lower tax rate than the USA btw. Singapore, HK, UAE, etc...
 

Natan

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May 22, 2015
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keesio said:
I don't understand how this works. For example, I live and work in Canada. So by using the FTC, I get credits from the canadian taxes I pay to apply (to most of) my US tax bill. Often I will have left over credits since the tax rate is higher here. I can carry these credits over to following years. But I don't see the advantage where it shelters my income from Canadian tax rates. I don't see the financial boon. Perhaps I am not using the right tricks.
One of the tricks is to shift earned income to corporate entities. As an example of how this might work (please don't try this at home!), both an Alberta corporation and a Delaware LLC (classified as a 'C' Corp with the IRS) could be setup. All earned income in Canada is shifted to the Alberta Corporation. The Delaware LLC invoices the Alberta corporation for services rendered (your earned income, including charging a profit). The Delaware LLC pays you a minimal wage for your services and withholds U.S. taxes on that earned income. The Delaware LLC also pays you dividends, at a lower capital gains tax rate. The remaining profit remains with the Delaware LLC, which is taxed at a low corporate rate. This will seriously complicate your tax returns.

keesio said:
There are many many countries with a much lower tax rate than the USA btw. Singapore, HK, UAE, etc...
This may be true, but it may not be for those who know how to take full advantage of U.S. tax law.