Don’t understand the logic of CEC or FSWP after ITA in Express Entry

[MMF]

I would like to understand how Applicants are divided based on CEC or FSWP (Inland or Outland)

Let me start from beginning. I made by profile in Express filling all my educational , Work Experience (Foreign and Canadian), Age and IELTS score. Now I was allocated points and received an ITA based on draws.. Till this point everything was logical.

Once I received my ITA I saw that I was invited under FSWP.. This is where I got confused and started thinking and below are my questions

• Suppose I worked in Company A in my home country and Company B in Canada. I got experience letter from both and matched with closest NOC. It is really sensible to assume officer just compares your letters with NOC irrespective of Company A or B and look for supporting documents to arrive at a decision. He won’t give weightage to one letter from Company A than Company B letter. If I was invited CEC he won’t give more weightage to Company B letter. He will just see that they are authentic and it proves my work experience in accordance to NOC code

• How CIC decide that they should invite people under FSWP who are still in Canada with 1 year of Canadian Experience. I believe many of them are still living in Canada then why not they are CEC applicants

• Why we still have to go to proof 67 points if we are invited under FSWP and on the top of that we get 10 points for 1 year of Canadian experience. In short, why these people are not invited under CEC to be simple

• Canada has a quota from Economic Immigrants and then they are further quotas for CEC, FSWP etc. Totally complicated if we get points under Express Entry what’s the needs of further dividing this and complicating it

• Even PNP or LMIA applicants invited under FSWP or CEC. IF they getting 600 points extra what’s the need of inviting them in these program

In the end, I am not against express entry but don’t understand the logic of CEC or FSWP in current scenario. I think because of this many applicants get rejections because of this complicated system. Why we don’t just go with the logic of points we get in Express Entry.

Please share your thoughts. I would like to know what people think .

 

[Dexmoody]

There is no elaborate logic, mate.

If you qualify for both FSW and CEC, you'll receive an invitation for FSW. Simple as that.

ITAs are totally automated - no officer looks at your application before you eventually apply (i.e. respond to the ITA).

There are threads in this forum where people talk about making themselves ineligible for FSW by entering zero funds or deleting any foreign work experience. This is pre-ITA though. Once you have an ITA under FSW, you need to apply under the conditions of this program or decline it.

 

[CanadaWeCome]

I would like to understand how Applicants are divided based on CEC or FSWP (Inland or Outland)

Let me start from beginning. I made by profile in Express filling all my educational , Work Experience (Foreign and Canadian), Age and IELTS score. Now I was allocated points and received an ITA based on draws.. Till this point everything was logical.

Once I received my ITA I saw that I was invited under FSWP.. This is where I got confused and started thinking and below are my questions

• Suppose I worked in Company A in my home country and Company B in Canada. I got experience letter from both and matched with closest NOC. It is really sensible to assume officer just compares your letters with NOC irrespective of Company A or B and look for supporting documents to arrive at a decision. He won’t give weightage to one letter from Company A than Company B letter. If I was invited CEC he won’t give more weightage to Company B letter. He will just see that they are authentic and it proves my work experience in accordance to NOC code

• How CIC decide that they should invite people under FSWP who are still in Canada with 1 year of Canadian Experience. I believe many of them are still living in Canada then why not they are CEC applicants

• Why we still have to go to proof 67 points if we are invited under FSWP and on the top of that we get 10 points for 1 year of Canadian experience. In short, why these people are not invited under CEC to be simple

• Canada has a quota from Economic Immigrants and then they are further quotas for CEC, FSWP etc. Totally complicated if we get points under Express Entry what’s the needs of further dividing this and complicating it

• Even PNP or LMIA applicants invited under FSWP or CEC. IF they getting 600 points extra what’s the need of inviting them in these program

In the end, I am not against express entry but don’t understand the logic of CEC or FSWP in current scenario. I think because of this many applicants get rejections because of this complicated system. Why we don’t just go with the logic of points we get in Express Entry.

Please share your thoughts. I would like to know what people think .

Q1: To answer your question, CIC doesn't look at your profile before issuing ITA. Having said that, for people who are either FSWP or CEC (i.e. clear cases) there is no issue, the system is intelligent enough to check their experience categories and choose the program accordingly for them at the time if issuing the ITA, but for people like yourself who maybe in the grey area (i.e. fall under both FSWP & CEC) the system is programmed to issue you the ITA under FSWP only, unless later(once you apply using eAPR) the VO chooses to shift you (in case VO thinks it's needed, due to whatever logic they may like to follow internally to preserve/balance their quota between FSWP & CEC, i am not sure)

Q2: Already answered above

Q3: 67 points is like the min pass marks, one has to get to qualify for the EE program.

Q4: This is probably for them to get a hold on how many outsiders they bring in through as immigrants and how many are already in with a job or for education and then job. They may need to keep a control on these KPIs and have allocated yearly budget/quotas for each.

Q5:Have one umbrella program/system, under which all categories operate. Probably, need for unification/consistency/ease of operation/managing it better etc... and more...

Our rejections is i think the least of their botheration...i too don't understand why...after rejections also cost them (although they charge us the application fee) but am sure that doesn't recover the complete cost of the management & resources...

 

[Dexmoody]

Q3: 67 points is like the min pass marks, one has to get to qualify for the EE program.

That's not quite correct. Express Entry isn't an immigration program, it's just a way of selecting applicants.

The 100 points system only applies to FSW applicants. For CEC applicants, it is totally irrelevant. Both can apply under express entry if they have sufficient CRS points.

 

[CanadaWeCome]

That's not quite correct. Express Entry isn't an immigration program, it's just a way of selecting applicants.
A: I am not saying EE is an immigration program.
The 100 points system only applies to FSW applicants. For CEC applicants, it is totally irrelevant. Both can apply under express entry if they have sufficient CRS points.
A: If you don't attain 67/100, you will be declared as ineligible (profile) under EE system.

 

[Dexmoody]

A: If you don't attain 67/100, you will be declared as ineligible (profile) under EE system.

No! You need to learn to distinguish between program eligibility and candidate selection.

First, you need to qualify for one of the immigration programs, such as FSWP or CEC.

Second, you need to be selected under Express Entry to be invited to apply.

67/100 is only a requirement for program eligibility for FSW, as this website clearly explains:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-factors.asp

Conversely, the CEC immigration program does not require you to have 67/100 points. That points system is irrelevant for CEC. See here:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/cec/apply-who.asp

So, you can easily not meet the 67/100 requirement and still be selected under EE if you have enough CRS points, as long as you qualify for CEC or FSTP.

Thought this was common knowledge, but apparently not...

 

[MMF]

Guys my argument is not immigration program , budget or something..

I want to make simple point that if Canada wants Economic Immigrants and they are giving points based on your education, experience stc.. What the need of these programs.. Simple if you are enough points to get ITA and then scrutiny of your documents starts after e-apr.

To answer your question Canada2welcome - what i was trying to explain in my first point was Company A or B is irrelevant for Officer.. He does the scrutiny in same way for both companies and system is also designed by CIC. So ultimately they would have done some programming to select the candidates..

 

[bellaluna]

• Even PNP or LMIA applicants invited under FSWP or CEC. IF they getting 600 points extra what’s the need of inviting them in these program

To clarify, the ITA is issued under PNP, it says so in the ITA letter, and it will say so in the COPR. It's just that we also have to meet the requirements for FSW or CEC if the PNP was done in Express Entry.

Although I agree with the point you're trying to make. In PNP-EE, the officer checks for CEC qualification first, then FST, then FSW. But as dexmoody says, ITAs are issued for FSW first even if the applicant also qualifies for CEC. CIC rather contradicts itself here.