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different religious backgrounds

missmini

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If you get my meaning, EVERYTHING and ANYTHING is a red flag if you don't address it.
that's very true

I would hope that the VO working on these applications don't simply look at any one or two things create a profile in their minds of why the application is not real and never do their homework. Even if they see what is being called a red flag IF the people in question are legit they will be able to prove it and that really is the main thing to keep in mind. If you "KNOW" you are the real deal don't let all the little red flags so forth and so on weigh on you, just make the effort to document the reality of your life and follow the application through to the end.
we all hope they look at all the evidence we give and they don't make an opinion before reading that evidence; and most important we hope that they r logic cuz in some places it sounds like they r not and they don't even consider very strong evidence which could make the difference between accepting or rejecting an application ???
 

Baloo

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Bangkokcanuck said:
Interesting reading thanks... confirmed what I was thinking none of those red flags matter at all as long as the rest of the relationship is obviously real and established.
There is no such thing as "obviously real" - that is why we have to prove it.
 

Bangkokcanuck

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Baloo said:
There is no such thing as "obviously real" - that is why we have to prove it.
You enjoy word games it seems.

I hoped you would have made the leap that it went without saying that I was talking about something being "obviously real" based on the proof provided if not looking at proof how would one know the details of any given relationship?

What are the odds that a couple gets married and is married for 15 years has a bunch of kids so forth and so on JUST to one day hope to apply for a PR?

If you want to continue to argue semantics no problem but it seems to be a waste of time.

FYI I have worked in Gov't before and there are things that are "obviously real" based upon the info in front of you... does that make it more clear for you or should we wait for the next song for another dance?
 

Baloo

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Not word games, actually it was humour.




But let me be serious and much clearer on this subject.

Anyone who enters in to the family class sponsorship stream, with the thought that their relationship is "obviously real" is not taking the application process seriously.

We have to prove it to CIC.

On your point :
What are the odds that a couple gets married and is married for 15 years has a bunch of kids so forth and so on JUST to one day hope to apply for a PR?
Many marriages don't last that long :)
So let us assume that they could be at the point of separating (divorce rates are about 50/50). They could be misrepresenting just to get PR, so in this case it is not "obviously real".

If you feel that responding to my posts are a waste of time, please feel free to ignore them.
 

Bangkokcanuck

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Baloo said:
If you feel that responding to my posts are a waste of time, please feel free to ignore them.
I do and I will.

Take care.
 

canuck0469

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Bangkokcanuck said:
Interesting reading thanks... confirmed what I was thinking none of those red flags matter at all as long as the rest of the relationship is obviously real and established.

I usually don't repond to opinions made. Bangkok you are very mistaken if you believe the Red Flags are unimportant. Couples need to assess thier own relationship with an objective viewpoint. As everyone who has gone/is going through the process can appreciate, dealing with these potential Red Flags in your application will strengthen your chances. We had many Red Flags, large age difference, she is dark, I'm white, she was brought up in much harsher environment than I with less opportunity. These are all Red Flags and need to be addressed in the app or prepare for a long interview to address them there. Real relationships do not speak for themselves in immigration
 

Bangkokcanuck

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canuck0469 said:
Bangkok you are very mistaken if you believe the Red Flags are unimportant. Couples need to assess thier own relationship with an objective viewpoint. As everyone who has gone/is going through the process can appreciate, dealing with these potential Red Flags in your application will strengthen your chances. We had many Red Flags, large age difference, she is dark, I'm white, she was brought up in much harsher environment than I with less opportunity. These are all Red Flags and need to be addressed in the app or prepare for a long interview to address them there. Real relationships do not speak for themselves in immigration
I wish people would read and "understand" what is said before they start telling people they are wrong.

If you bothered to READ and UNDERSTAND my comments I said;

"Even if they see what is being called a red flag IF the people in question are legit they will be able to prove it and that really is the main thing to keep in mind. If you "KNOW" you are the real deal don't let all the little red flags so forth and so on weigh on you, just make the effort to document the reality of your life and follow the application through to the end."

Where did I say they don't matter? Where did I say relationships speak for themselves? I have always said people must follow up, people must provide proof.. but if you think it's better for people to sit around moaning and groaning about red flags that is up to you. I was and still am saying that NONE OF THEM MATTER if you KNOW you are REAL and you follow up and prove it... how is that wrong??? Thanks.

Looking forward to your reply assuming you've read my comments this time and understood what was said.
 

Bangkokcanuck

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rjessome said:
Read OP Manual 2 for the guide a Visa Officer uses to establish genuineness of a relationship. Start at Section 5.26. Keep in mind that the VO also considers "cultural norms" of the applicant and sponsor as well. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf
Was doing some more reading of this document today and found part of it very amusing. All the references to Joint stuff, bank accounts, loans, financial stuff, etc..etc.. being White in Thailand I am not legally able to do any of the above with my wife. In fact when she married me her being Thai and me being White she gave up her right to own land in Thailand without me providing a notarized letter showing that I have no claim financially to the property and giving up any future claims I might make.. they are very serious here about keeping financial stuff separate when it's a Thai and a Farang (non thai), so it was nice to see this written after the tables.

The above elements may be present in varying degrees and not all are necessary for a
relationship to be considered conjugal. Whether an element is present may depend on the culture
or preferences of the couple. For example, in some cultures, women have a limited role in the
management of the family finances; thus there may not be joint ownership of property or joint
bank accounts. Some couples may choose to keep aspects of their financial affairs separate and
yet are clearly in a conjugal relationship and have merged their affairs in other respects.

Officers should consider each relationship individually and take into account any other relevant
information provided by the applicant (or information otherwise available to the officer), in order to
assess whether a conjugal relationship exists.

Officers should also take into account to what extent the laws and/or traditions of the applicant's
home country may discourage the parties from openly admitting the existence of the relationship.


Now fingers crossed they read their own manuals haha
 

rjessome

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Bangkokcanuck said:
Was doing some more reading of this document today and found part of it very amusing. All the references to Joint stuff, bank accounts, loans, financial stuff, etc..etc.. being White in Thailand I am not legally able to do any of the above with my wife. In fact when she married me her being Thai and me being White she gave up her right to own land in Thailand without me providing a notarized letter showing that I have no claim financially to the property and giving up any future claims I might make.. they are very serious here about keeping financial stuff separate when it's a Thai and a Farang (non thai), so it was nice to see this written after the tables.

The above elements may be present in varying degrees and not all are necessary for a
relationship to be considered conjugal. Whether an element is present may depend on the culture
or preferences of the couple. For example, in some cultures, women have a limited role in the
management of the family finances; thus there may not be joint ownership of property or joint
bank accounts. Some couples may choose to keep aspects of their financial affairs separate and
yet are clearly in a conjugal relationship and have merged their affairs in other respects.

Officers should consider each relationship individually and take into account any other relevant
information provided by the applicant (or information otherwise available to the officer), in order to
assess whether a conjugal relationship exists.

Officers should also take into account to what extent the laws and/or traditions of the applicant's
home country may discourage the parties from openly admitting the existence of the relationship.


Now fingers crossed they read their own manuals haha
They will. :D
 

bobshynoswife

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Here's the thing - it doesn't matter how real and ligitimate your relationship is, what matters is the evidence you submit with your application.

Anyone who is going through this process should look objectively at their relationship and see if there are any 'red flags' that we all talk about here:

- age difference (especially if the woman is older)
- religious difference
- cultural difference
- interracial couples
- previous marriages and divorces
- if either partner has children
- if families object to the union
- having a small or non-traditional wedding
- not spending much time together in person
- language barriers
- educational differences
- large economic differences

Once you have identified your 'red flags' you have to submit an application that not only proves your relationship is genuine, but also EXPLAINS why these 'red flags' are not an issue for you.

I would like to think I speak with some experience here, having received a spousal visa from one of the hardest offices in the world in a near-record 98 days. My application explained EVERYTHING.

So don't feel all doom and gloom if you and your partner don't fit the perfect mold of a same age, same race, same religion couple who spent a ton of time together in person and then had an enormous wedding with 500 guests. Just look objectively at your situation and make sure that when the VO looks at your application, all possible questions are answered.
 

Bangkokcanuck

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bobshynoswife said:
So don't feel all doom and gloom if you and your partner don't fit the perfect mold of a same age, same race, same religion couple who spent a ton of time together in person and then had an enormous wedding with 500 guests. Just look objectively at your situation and make sure that when the VO looks at your application, all possible questions are answered.
Words to live by, you summed up my three posts in the above paragraph perfectly said thanks