Different citizenship benefits

[cprak0]

There are the minimal legal distinctions between naturalized citizens, born-in-Canada citizens, and other citizens-by-birth, as noted by others above, such as that citizens-by-birth not born in Canada do not pass citizenship by birth to children born outside Canada, and while naturalized citizens are not the only ones having citizenship in multiple countries, they are by far the largest group of dual citizens potentially affected by the Bill C-24 provisions expanding grounds for revocation to include certain acts committed after becoming a citizen.

The Charter, however, for example, does not distinguish guaranteed rights relative to the source of citizenship (while, in contrast, the Charter does distinguish mobility rights of Canadians depending on whether they are a Canadian citizen or a Canadian PR). It may warrant noting that Justice Rennie has ruled, in the Galati challenge to Bill C-24, that there is no jus soli right to citizenship in Canada, that all citizenship is based on a statutory grant (thus, for example, that persons born in Canada are citizens by birth derives from statute, not constitutional rights . . . perhaps a precursor to this government further amending the Citizenship Act, if it wins this year's federal election, to restrict citizenship by birth to only those born by a parent legally admitted to Canada, addressing the so-called anchor baby concern (in my view a vastly exaggerated concern).

But generally, a citizen's place of birth is identified in the Canadian passport's biographical information, and this information can result in being treated differently when traveling to other countries. (Such as those born in Taiwan traveling to mainland China; those born in Israel traveling to certain ME countries and the converse, those born in certain ME countries traveling to Israel; not sure if the U.S. still distinguishes Canadian citizens based on birth in certain countries, but for a time the U.S. was requiring more security related procedures for some Canadian citizens depending on their place of birth.)

Canadian citizens may request that their place of birth not be displayed in the passport. But passport Canada posts the following caution about choosing to not display place of birth:

You may request that your place of birth does not appear in the passport. However, if you chose to do so, note that:

-- Place of birth is mandatory for entry to some countries. You should contact the consulate or embassy of every country you plan to visit to ensure that you will be allowed entry if your passport does not indicate your place of birth.
-- You may have difficulty obtaining a visa.
-- You may experience delays at border crossings.

Thanks learned something new today.

 

[ZingyDNA]

We are not in the US, and thank God for that!
Do I want to be part of a society that classifies one citizen above another? Hell no!

The US is highly mislead, and they are sinking fast... Government spying on the people that they work for, the constitution is *censored word*ed and there is no more freedom...

I, for one am glad that I'm this side of the border...

I'm not sure if the US is sinking fast, but clearly their dollars are not! The Canadian dollars, on the other hand... :-\

 

[torontosm]

Can you get security clearance in Canada with PR ?

Yes you can. Not the highest levels, but basic clearances are definitely provided to PR's/

 

[torontosm]

2. Are all Cdn citizenships equal before the law?: This question is the basis of Rocco Galati's suit against the revocation powers included in the new citizenship bill. Basically the argument is that by saying that Canadian citizens with a second citizenship can have their Cdn citizenship revoked, they're creating 2 classes of Canadian citizen: A cdn citizen who commits an act of "terror" but who has only one citizenship will be punished by jail time alone while a cdn citizen who commits an act of terror but has a second citizenship will be punished by jail time plus deportation and banishment from Canada.

Just to clarify, there is no distinction in the new citizenship bill between a natural born citizen and a naturalized citizen. The only distinction is between dual citizens and mono-citizens. As a result, there is still only one class of citizenship, but it's solely up to the individual whether they wish to renounce their other citizenship or not.

 

[eileenf]

Just to clarify, there is no distinction in the new citizenship bill between a natural born citizen and a naturalized citizen. The only distinction is between dual citizens and mono-citizens. As a result, there is still only one class of citizenship, but it's solely up to the individual whether they wish to renounce their other citizenship or not.

Well, I don't agree with your assessment that there's only one class of citizenship, but you're right that the distinction is between dual citizens and single citizens.

Those interested in the issue can read about MP Fred Rose, the only communist ever elected to Parliament. He was (rightly? wrongly?) convicted of being a spy and had his Cdn citizenship revoked while he was overseas so he was never able to come home. In 1958, the "Fred Rose Amendment" was added to the Citizenship Act to preclude others from losing their citizenship as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rose_%28politician%29

 

[hoping_canadian]

Hi Experts,
What is the different between canadian citizen by birth vs naturalized in terms of benefits/value?
or is that the same? if you get a canadian passport as a second passport how does it differ in canadian society?

the only difference is paper works he he he one who need to provide birth cert and one need the canadian citizenship cert

 

[screech339]

Well, I don't agree with your assessment that there's only one class of citizenship, but you're right that the distinction is between dual citizens and single citizens.

Those interested in the issue can read about MP Fred Rose, the only communist ever elected to Parliament. He was (rightly? wrongly?) convicted of being a spy and had his Cdn citizenship revoked while he was overseas so he was never able to come home. In 1958, the "Fred Rose Amendment" was added to the Citizenship Act to preclude others from losing their citizenship as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rose_%28politician%29

I believe Fred Rose probably had dual citizenship since he was born in today, Poland, at the time part of Russia. He seems to be able to enter/exit Poland/Russia very easy thus seems to have dual citizenship. He was convicted of being a spy for a foreign country (again rightly or wrongly). This is called treason. You can lose your citizenship due to conviction of treason under the laws at the time.

 

[keesio]

As most people have mentioned, there are subtle differences. For example a person with multiple citizenships can potentially get stripped of their Canadian one under the new C-24 bill if you are convicted of treason/terrorism against Canada. If you only have a Canadian one, then you can't get stripped (since you can't be allowed to become stateless).

I know that US citizens who also have another nationality cannot get the highest security clearance in the US so that excludes you from some high level government jobs (POTUS, director of the CIA, etc). Not sure if there is something similar in Canada (head of CSIS?). As for PM, I don't think there is any explicit rule. but Thomas Mulclair has come under fire from a public relations standpoint for being a dual citizen (Canada & France) while aspiring to become PM.

 

[screech339]

As most people have mentioned, there are subtle differences. For example a person with multiple citizenships can potentially get stripped of their Canadian one under the new C-24 bill if you are convicted of treason/terrorism against Canada. If you only have a Canadian one, then you can't get stripped (since you can't be allowed to become stateless).

I know that US citizens who also have another nationality cannot get the highest security clearance in the US so that excludes you from some high level government jobs (POTUS, director of the CIA, etc). Not sure if there is something similar in Canada (head of CSIS?). As for PM, I don't think there is any explicit rule. but Thomas Mulclair has come under fire from a public relations standpoint for being a dual citizen (Canada & France) while aspiring to become PM.

John Turner has dual citizenship too while PM. British and Canadian.

 

[torontosm]

Well, I don't agree with your assessment that there's only one class of citizenship, but you're right that the distinction is between dual citizens and single citizens.

Fine, to use your definition, there are two classes of citizenship, but anyone can move from one to the other, at will, whenever they want. There are no barriers preventing a dual-citizen Canadian from becoming one who can never be stripped of citizenship.

 

[dbo73]

This is an interesting topic that made me think:

Under the new Bill, would a Canadian citizen by birth, who is also citizen of another country, lose the Canadian citizenship in case of terrorist acts against Canada as it would apply to immigrated Canadian citizens with dual citizenship?

If the answer is "yes", then there is really just one class of citizenship and the distinction is purely regarding sole-citizenship and multi-citizenship. If "no", then this really looks to me as there would be two classes of Canadian citizenship.

Thoughts?

 

[screech339]

This is an interesting topic that made me think:

Under the new Bill, would a Canadian citizen by birth, who is also citizen of another country, lose the Canadian citizenship in case of terrorist acts against Canada as it would apply to immigrated Canadian citizens with dual citizenship?

If the answer is "yes", then there is really just one class of citizenship and the distinction is purely regarding sole-citizenship and multi-citizenship. If "no", then this really looks to me as there would be two classes of Canadian citizenship.

Thoughts?

Yes a Canadian born holding another citizenship can lose Canadian citizenship if convicted. So it means there is one class of citizenship, Canadian.

 

[isilrion]

Fine, to use your definition, there are two classes of citizenship, but anyone can move from one to the other, at will, whenever they want. There are no barriers preventing a dual-citizen Canadian from becoming one who can never be stripped of citizenship.

Not really. For starters, not every country allows you to renounce your Citizenship. I am stuck with my first citizenship for life, and there is nothing I can do about it. If any country claims you as a citizen (say, via jus sanguinis, or via the Law of Return if you are a Jew), you are a dual citizen, even if you didn't take any action to acquire, have no knowledge of, and have no option to renounce your second citizenship.

Therefore, your statement that "there are no barriers preventing a dual-citizen Canadian from becoming one who can never be stripped of citizenship" is just not true, I submit myself as a counter-example.

 

[dpenabill]

This is an interesting topic that made me think:

Under the new Bill, would a Canadian citizen by birth, who is also citizen of another country, lose the Canadian citizenship in case of terrorist acts against Canada as it would apply to immigrated Canadian citizens with dual citizenship?

If the answer is "yes", then there is really just one class of citizenship and the distinction is purely regarding sole-citizenship and multi-citizenship. If "no", then this really looks to me as there would be two classes of Canadian citizenship.

Thoughts?

Yes, as written, the grounds for revoking citizenship based on acts committed after becoming a citizen apply regardless of how citizenship was acquired, and thus apply to those who are a citizen by birth as well as naturalized citizens.

Whether or not this is constitutionally valid is still undecided despite Justice Rennie's decision in the Galati challenge. On its face, it appears that Justice Rennie ruled this is not unconstitutional. But since he ruled there was no justiciable case to rule on, I think his ruling on the constitutionality of this was mere dicta.

There is, however, a distinction between those who have only Canadian citizenship and those who have citizenship in another country in addition to Canadian citizenship (typically referred to as "dual citizens"), the additional grounds for revocation only applying to the latter. As a practical matter this group largely consists of naturalized citizens. So the practical impact of the law is that it disproportionately applies to naturalized citizens.

The whole "classes" of citizenship discussion is more rhetorical than substantive. The Charter and Constitutional rights apply to all citizens equally. But beyond that, the law is more about differences and lawful forms of discrimination. There are, for example, particular provisions of law which allow Passport Canada to refuse issuing a Canadian passport to some Canadian citizens (the application of this in practice appears to have expanded significantly in recent years), and courts have ruled that a citizen's mobility rights as protected by the Charter are not infringed by the denial of a passport. And of course, the mobility of some citizens is dramatically curtailed, such as those who are imprisoned for crimes. This is legitimate discrimination and restriction. The fact that the law creates these distinctions, and provides for such disparate treatment of Canadian citizens does not create different classes of citizenship.

Note for example that a huge lynchpin in Justice Rennie's decision, in the Galati challenge to Bill C-24, is that citizenship derives from statute, not from the Constitution or the Charter. "Jus soli," for example, in Justice Rennie's view and ruling, has been replaced by statute. I am not sure this will stand up in further appeals, or if otherwise brought before the courts in another matter, but for now it is an official decision . . . and it might be noted that earlier this month Justice Rennie got a big promotion and he now sits on the Federal Court of Appeals.

 

[eileenf]

Fine, to use your definition, there are two classes of citizenship, but anyone can move from one to the other, at will, whenever they want. There are no barriers preventing a dual-citizen Canadian from becoming one who can never be stripped of citizenship.

There are barriers. Some citizenships are not revokable or require official permission for renunciation, which may or may not be granted. Some require exorbitant fees (as in the USA). Some citizenships persist down generations and bearers may be unaware that they hold them.

Banishment may make sense on the face of things but it is not a great solution: it can send terrorists to go live in terrorist regimes where they can do further harm and it passes Canada's responsibilities off on other countries who often have far less resources or protections.

Also, it's ripe for political manipulation. The term "terrorist" is often used by corrupt regimes to de-legitimatize political opposition. Like honorary Canadian Nelson Mandela who was widely termed a terrorist, and if he had been a real Canadian citizen could have been subject to losing his Cdn citizenship had the minister of CIC disliked him.