Did anyone watch the documentary on Marriage Fraud last night on CBC news?

[lemony_20]

This documentary was really hard to watch. I think everyone who is waiting for their applications to be processed now and in the future are quite worried that things will be delayed even longer because of this. I don't think it's fair that the Canadian spouse who was tricked now has to pay to support a spouse who has abandoned them. Can't they legally sue them for repayment of welfare etc. after proving the foreign national married for convenience purposes?

 

[Kev]

My husband and I just finished watching the show, and it took us much longer than an hour to watch because we kept pausing it to discuss what we were seeing/hearing. It focused more on what to do once those fraudulent spouses make it to Canada, where it is nearly impossible to deport them, and also that Canadians are a prime target for fraudulent spouses because we give permanent residency immediately upon landing. It did make CIC look pretty bad, I thought.

I wondered what everyone else thought?

I do not think that is a big problem with Americans. Mostly likely from economically poorer nations.

 

[Baloo]

I do not think that is a big problem with Americans. Mostly likely from economically poorer nations.

I think that there are people who want to commit marriage fraud, or scam the Canadian system everywhere, including the USA.
There may be a higher percentage from some countries, but believe me, Americans are not all perfect applicants.
Why would Americans want to escape to Canada? You only have to look at the number of people out of work in the USA to see that there is good reason to leave.
Economic migrants are no longer limited to what some would call "third world countries".

This documentary was really hard to watch. I think everyone who is waiting for their applications to be processed now and in the future are quite worried that things will be delayed even longer because of this. I don't think it's fair that the Canadian spouse who was tricked now has to pay to support a spouse who has abandoned them. Can't they legally sue them for repayment of welfare etc. after proving the foreign national married for convenience purposes?

I guess that the logic is, if the sponsor has a way to get out of the sponsorship agreement then scammers would not be held accountable (and the government would have to pay).
Sadly this means sponsors who are tricked are caught in a bad place.
Until they deport the immigrant (who is proven 100% to have married for convenience) someone has to pay.

Without extra resources and costs, we are stuck with a flawed system. There are no easy answers.

 

[bobshynoswife]

Let's remember that it is not always the Canadian who gets the raw end of the deal in a marriage fraud. I'm sure there are many foreigners who marry a Canadian for love and upon arriving in Canada find that he/she is not who they said they are. These people have given up their lives and families and homelands, and the undertaking ensures support will be there for them.

 

[mrs B]

I think CIC should not even consider applications if a relationship is less than 3 years, that will cut back the scammers..... and people that are in REAL marriages (relationship) are willing to do anything for each other, INCLUDING waiting.....look at the statistics of relationships people.....sad but true...look at some of the stories on here just from yesterday....

 

[Baloo]

Let's remember that it is not always the Canadian who gets the raw end of the deal in a marriage fraud. I'm sure there are many foreigners who marry a Canadian for love and upon arriving in Canada find that he/she is not who they said they are. These people have given up their lives and families and homelands, and the undertaking ensures support will be there for them.

Yes that is true.

I think CIC should not even consider applications if a relationship is less than 3 years, that will cut back the scammers..... and people that are in REAL marriages (relationship) are willing to do anything for each other, INCLUDING waiting.....look at the statistics of relationships people.....sad but true...look at some of the stories on here just from yesterday....

But scammers will falsify the three years while others will suffer longer.

When you are older you will better understand the urgency in older life

 

[HoneyBird]

I think CIC should not even consider applications if a relationship is less than 3 years, that will cut back the scammers..... and people that are in REAL marriages (relationship) are willing to do anything for each other, INCLUDING waiting.....look at the statistics of relationships people.....sad but true...look at some of the stories on here just from yesterday....

i dont think three years....people dont need three years to know who is the one. some people know within a matter of weeks/months. it means that someone would have to do by your estimation three years long distance relationship then face another 2 years at the embassy to get the pr. thats alot of hardship. maybe i say you have to be in the relationship for a year to apply what do you think?

 

[HoneyBird]

When you are older you will better understand the urgency in older life

So true, I will be 30 next month and my eggs are dying.
By the timei get through with PR, probably next year, move up, find a job, work and save, sell the apartment to buy a home, hubby has to switch jobs too, then start the baby making proces... i am estimating i will be 33. Given that i have eggs dying...lets say i get preggars at 34...or maybe never...

the reason i am saying this, is because i recently found out it is very hard to get preggers with a particular condition i have, the doctor said to me! TRY AND GET PREGANT NOW. and i said to him, no i have to wait on CIC. Because by not waiting, i will probably have to spend cad 10,000 on health care, will be growing up a baby with out a father and get no benefits. Plus by t he time i reach up in canada with baby in my hands, the apartment has no place for him/her (its a studio apartment)..i have to work and take my baby to the nursery and my poor hubby who never had to deal with wife and wailing child full time will go mad...not to mention...we as a couple would of never had the luxury to be a couple and just enjoy each other.

so i am in an urgent mode to move....asap...god if only i were 22.

 

[ditta]

It was hard to watch the documentary, but let`s face it- these are true stories happening. Yes, it creates a less supportive atmosphere for us, genuine spouses and more hardship. I would agree with a conditional visa, the emphasis is on the conditions..What would be required from us to do and how to prevent many to enter an abusive relationship this way? As for a trial period for marriages outside Canada could serve well and would provide a way back if the relationship does not last. My opinion anyway in the matter, I would never sponsor someone whom I never lived with for a period of time...it`s like a test. Furthermore there is no guarantee that the foreign national can adjust to Canadian lifestyle, then things can turn out sour. I lived in Canada almost 2 years before marrying my Canadian husband, we lived together for almost a year before, I was studying, working and aware of what am I getting myself into if I stay with him and plan our family`s future in this country. I call these years as my trial period and it`s not over yet. I`m also not taking granted the PR, I don`t see the benefits only, I would like to be a useful member of Canadian society, working for this country and my family. It`s the same I would do in my home country, nothing less. We decided that our future is here, as my husband would face difficulties to have the same career in my country, not because Canada is a better world where I`m from.
Here is the key- seeing Canada as dreamland for many of those fraudulent spouses who only want to get here.

 

[aerogurl87]

No

I think CIC should not even consider applications if a relationship is less than 3 years, that will cut back the scammers..... and people that are in REAL marriages (relationship) are willing to do anything for each other, INCLUDING waiting.....look at the statistics of relationships people.....sad but true...look at some of the stories on here just from yesterday....

Nope I gotta disagree. I'm young and I don't want to have to wait 3 years to start actually living with my boyfriend and seeing how we are on a day to day basis together full-time. Sure people can visit each other, but we all know that's not the same as living with someone. I just got back from a 3 week trip of living with my boyfriend while I visited him. He still went to work, taking a little vacation time, but I still know that a trip is not the same as living with someone or at least within driving distance of them while dating.

I like the idea of a conditional visa. The CIC could grant temporary visas to applicants who have shown they are committed to their partner/spouse and then have them come to Canada for a year. This temporary visa would allow for the applicant to work and live in Canada, but if the sponsor or applicant decided that it wasn't working, then the applicant would be deported. They wouldn't be allowed to sign up for welfare either and if they did try to, a red flag would be sent through the system and the facility would be required by law to inform immigration of the applicant not leaving Canada so they could be deported. Now if after a year both parties agreed to go through with full immigration they could sign some papers allowing the applicant to become a permanent resident. I think that would be a great system.

 

[geminibella]

Wow .. I just finished watching this whole documentary and I must say it was very shocking !! I wasn't aware that there was this much fraud.. honestly. It's really sad to see and the fact is it's from both parties.. either the wife or the husband. What is wrong with these types of people ? I mean if you want to come to Canada.. sure apply for a visit visa but don't fake that you love someone and once you get here you dissapear.. Very sad sad sad sad stories !! Inshallah there will be something done about this as I believe it is not fair one bit for someone from out of Canada to use someone to come here. Very against it and I'm with all those who are fighting for their case for spouses that have used them to enter into this country.

 

[geminibella]

Oh and I am also very much for the temporary visa or permanent resident thing.. that's honestly how it should be atleast for the 1st year or so allowing the person to work and what not and if things don't work out then definitely get the person deported depending on who left who and for what reasons with proof ofcourse.

 

[Alabaman]

No matter what you all say, no matter what CIC does, there WILL always be marriage fraud. It is unfortunate but true. It is a form of crime and crime will always exist no matter what. You can only control it. Even in the US where the "Green Card" through marriage is conditional for 2 years, marriage fraud is rampant you wouldn't believe it. It even goes as far as people paying for marriages to get the green card. Trust me when I say it is rampant.

CIC is part of the problem. Did you hear the woman that said she was in Morocco 8 times?? I can assure you that the guy she was going to marry did not visit her in Canada once! CIC will never allow fiancées to visit their Canadian partners before marriage either with a regular visitors visa or with a fiancee visa like they have in the United States. The excuse is that the visiting partner will never leave Canada because he or she already has strong ties to Canada. Whereas, CIC will gladly give a PR card after marriage. Even in genuine relationships, you still need to know each other to make sure it will work.

Currently, the Canadian partner has no other way to do a due diligence on the would be husband or wife. He or she is left without a choice but to get married first and then bring the partner to Canada. It is after this that the unsuspecting partner begins to notice signs. Although this is not a fool proof way but at least you give them a chance. Furthermore, if all the foreign partner wants is to enter Canada, he or she might do that on a TEMPORARY visa and not a PR card as the system currently permits.

In my case for example, my girlfriend was refused a visa to visit me. I want to get married soon but I need to know the girl and she needs to know me... we need to spend some time together. The Canadian embassy wouldn't give her a visa. They say she wouldn't return to her home country. She has traveled out of her country before, she makes good money, she is educated... etc. Now I am forced to go and get married and bring her to Canada. God forbid we get married and we discover we are not a good fit... it becomes a case of "marriage fraud".

CIC think they are smart but I think they are stupid.

 

[aerogurl87]

No matter what you all say, no matter what CIC does, there WILL always be marriage fraud. It is unfortunate but true. It is a form of crime and crime will always exist no matter what. You can only control it. Even in the US where the "Green Card" through marriage is conditional for 2 years, marriage fraud is rampant you wouldn't believe it. It even goes as far as people paying for marriages to get the green card. Trust me when I say it is rampant.

CIC is part of the problem. Did you hear the woman that said she was in Morocco 8 times?? I can assure you that the guy she was going to marry did not visit her in Canada once! CIC will never allow fiancées to visit their Canadian partners before marriage either with a regular visitors visa or with a fiancee visa like they have in the United States. The excuse is that the visiting partner will never leave Canada because he or she already has strong ties to Canada. Whereas, CIC will gladly give a PR card after marriage. Even in genuine relationships, you still need to know each other to make sure it will work.

Currently, the Canadian partner has no other way to do a due diligence on the would be husband or wife. He or she is left without a choice but to get married first and then bring the partner to Canada. It is after this that the unsuspecting partner begins to notice signs. Although this is not a fool proof way but at least you give them a chance. Furthermore, if all the foreign partner wants is to enter Canada, he or she might do that on a TEMPORARY visa and not a PR card as the system currently permits.

In my case for example, my girlfriend was refused a visa to visit me. I want to get married soon but I need to know the girl and she needs to know me... we need to spend some time together. The Canadian embassy wouldn't give her a visa. They say she wouldn't return to her home country. She has traveled out of her country before, she makes good money, she is educated... etc. Now I am forced to go and get married and bring her to Canada. God forbid we get married and we discover we are not a good fit... it becomes a case of "marriage fraud".

CIC think they are smart but I think they are stupid.

Not only does the US have marriage fraud, but we have a very flawed system of allowing people to come and have children here, then use their children as a means of gaining entrance into the country. I do think there needs to be a way for partners to live together or at least in the same vicinity of each other before marrying. I love my boyfriend and I'm happy I can go visit him and he can come visit me freely, but it'd be even better if we could live AND work together. You can't always see how good or bad a relationship can be when every visit is like a mini vacation for one or both parties. CIC really needs to address that issue.

 

[waitingintz]

Interesting discussion and a lot of good points... Just my two cents:

It seems like almost everyone invovled would be happy to do conditional or temporary visas of some kind. But it can also be a staggered system: the applications Immigration feels solid about get PRs right away (people who've been together many years, tons of solid evidence, etc). Those that are a little shakier (new marraiges, haven't met in person, etc) could get a conditional or temporary visa. It's not only that the newer relationships are more likely to be fraudulent, they're also more likely to not work out. As lots of people are saying, bringing their partner to Canada is the only way to test out the relationship for the long term. So you apply and when you are approved it's either for a PR or a TR. Either way, you can both come to Canada and get jobs. I would think most people would be happy with that (over being rejected) and having both options means that immigration and applicants don't have to waste time and resources on double applications for everyone... just relationships that don't quite meet enough criterias.

Also, again, just my opinion... while it would be great to have everything sorted out faster, if it's a genuine relationship and you are committed for life then you'll find a way to make it work through the wait. Most people really aren't waiting THAT long. Considering the magnitude of the decision and the implications for Canada, it really doesn't seem unreasonable to have to wait for your visa to be approved. Be organized, plan ahead, find a way to make it work. Cause it's worth it. And yes there are special circumstances where there is a valid urgency but really, those are quite rare.