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Denied AFTER the test? Missing days in residence

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,804
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Toronto
Category........
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Buffalo
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Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
What eventually happened in this case? I applied for my citizenship in May 2020 and had 1097 days of my physical presence that had been met in a 4 year period.

I was out of the country with my work (Canadian company) for a total of 75 days over 2 of those years and many weekends here and there in the USA.

I was laid off 2 months before applying and my main reason for applying was because at the time there were many relevant jobs advertised in the CSIA, RCMPand even the IRCC however you have to be a Canadian to apply for these roles.

I was recently asked to provide a scan of my passport and a copy of my entry/exits from the usa.

I realise that I have missed 2 trips to the USA on my presence calculator which then cut my physical presence to 1094 days.

I have sent a letter explaining my reason for applying so soon without a greater buffer before applying and have also asked that my presence, 13 months after applying, in canada be taken into account.

I can get proof from my old employer regarding my work trips but I would be very thankful for advise about this
They won't take the 13 months after applying into account. Your days are locked at the time you apply.

Generally any shortfall results in a refusal. There's generally no give on the 1095 days. But who knows, maybe they will overlook 1 day. It's super hard to say.

Good luck. Let us know what happens.
 

Seym

Champion Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,704
829
What eventually happened in this case? I applied for my citizenship in May 2020 and had 1097 days of my physical presence that had been met in a 4 year period.

I was out of the country with my work (Canadian company) for a total of 75 days over 2 of those years and many weekends here and there in the USA.

I was laid off 2 months before applying and my main reason for applying was because at the time there were many relevant jobs advertised in the CSIA, RCMPand even the IRCC however you have to be a Canadian to apply for these roles.

I was recently asked to provide a scan of my passport and a copy of my entry/exits from the usa.

I realise that I have missed 2 trips to the USA on my presence calculator which then cut my physical presence to 1094 days.

I have sent a letter explaining my reason for applying so soon without a greater buffer before applying and have also asked that my presence, 13 months after applying, in canada be taken into account.

I can get proof from my old employer regarding my work trips but I would be very thankful for advise about this
Sending an explanation letter is pretty much useless. Your application MUST be denied, by law.
Withdraw your application asap and send a new one, that will potentially save you years.
 

Yazzabbazz

Newbie
Jun 30, 2021
3
3
They won't take the 13 months after applying into account. Your days are locked at the time you apply.

Generally any shortfall results in a refusal. There's generally no give on the 1095 days. But who knows, maybe they will overlook 1 day. It's super hard to say.

Good luck. Let us know what happens.
So if a refusal is given, however likely that may be even for 1 day of oversight, then would I have to apply all over again or is there a way to take my test and everything else into account so that the process can be easier as I’m re-applying?

I remember that in the original citizenship form there was a section asking if you have applied before and if so to enter the application number.

in this case, if reapplying, when entering the application number - does it make it less longer as they would have vetted all / most other information of mine and would then be able to see that the one thing I failed on would now be met?

also what happens to the main chunk of the money you pay for the citizenship ceremony fee (not application fee as that is no refundable)?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,804
22,087
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
So if a refusal is given, however likely that may be even for 1 day of oversight, then would I have to apply all over again or is there a way to take my test and everything else into account so that the process can be easier as I’m re-applying?

I remember that in the original citizenship form there was a section asking if you have applied before and if so to enter the application number.

in this case, if reapplying, when entering the application number - does it make it less longer as they would have vetted all / most other information of mine and would then be able to see that the one thing I failed on would now be met?

also what happens to the main chunk of the money you pay for the citizenship ceremony fee (not application fee as that is no refundable)?
You will reapply from scratch. You should expect the processing will take just as long since they will go through all of the processing steps again.

The main part of the fee ($530) is the processing fee which is non refundable. You would get $100 back in fees.
 
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Yazzabbazz

Newbie
Jun 30, 2021
3
3
Just an update from me, as of August 6th 2021:

seems to be many on this forum who “think” they know the answers when they don’t

despite being 1-2 days out, I put in a very polite and explanatory letter to IRCC and as of now I have obtained my citizenship and am currently awaiting the arrival of my first Canadian passport.

So ppl, don’t respond with doom and gloom! If you are not positive on an outcome, don’t suggest it to scare ppl who write posts on here with the genuine intention of help and advice.

for anyone wanting a template of the letter, message me and I’ll send it over as it was a very well worded document, if I do say so myself.
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,786
Just an update from me, as of August 6th 2021:

seems to be many on this forum who “think” they know the answers when they don’t

despite being 1-2 days out, I put in a very polite and explanatory letter to IRCC and as of now I have obtained my citizenship and am currently awaiting the arrival of my first Canadian passport.

So ppl, don’t respond with doom and gloom! If you are not positive on an outcome, don’t suggest it to scare ppl who write posts on here with the genuine intention of help and advice.

for anyone wanting a template of the letter, message me and I’ll send it over as it was a very well worded document, if I do say so myself.
I'm glad it worked out for you. Congratulations!

But, it is generally safe to follow the "safe than sorry" approach.

Just because it worked out for you, we can't suggest the same to everyone else. This might be an exceptional case and trust me, I'm glad it worked out - The frustration of re-applying again is nothing short of nightmarish.

What these "members" mostly post here is the "general" outcome based on their experience. It doesn't mean that is the only outcome possible. It means that the outcome they post "might likely" be the outcome for the applicant. Its a free forum so whatever anyone posts here isn't legal advise. It is his or her opinion, that's all.

Wish you all the best!
 
Last edited:

bestofluck

VIP Member
Aug 11, 2015
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LANDED..........
10th June 2017
Just an update from me, as of August 6th 2021:

seems to be many on this forum who “think” they know the answers when they don’t

despite being 1-2 days out, I put in a very polite and explanatory letter to IRCC and as of now I have obtained my citizenship and am currently awaiting the arrival of my first Canadian passport.

So ppl, don’t respond with doom and gloom! If you are not positive on an outcome, don’t suggest it to scare ppl who write posts on here with the genuine intention of help and advice.

for anyone wanting a template of the letter, message me and I’ll send it over as it was a very well worded document, if I do say so myself.
Thank God and enjoy your citizenship.
Dont be rude.
Raj is right. you are an exceptional case and officer might have given a sympathetic approach for some reasons.

What Rajkammohanram and scylla are doing is a great job and if not thank them atleast dont be rude.
 
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harirajmohan

VIP Member
Mar 3, 2015
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11-Aug-2015
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23-Dec-2015
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PP Reached Ottawa:27-May-2016, Received:10-Jun-2016
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PR: 09-Jul-2016, PR Card: 17-Aug-2016
Just an update from me, as of August 6th 2021:

seems to be many on this forum who “think” they know the answers when they don’t

despite being 1-2 days out, I put in a very polite and explanatory letter to IRCC and as of now I have obtained my citizenship and am currently awaiting the arrival of my first Canadian passport.

So ppl, don’t respond with doom and gloom! If you are not positive on an outcome, don’t suggest it to scare ppl who write posts on here with the genuine intention of help and advice.

for anyone wanting a template of the letter, message me and I’ll send it over as it was a very well worded document, if I do say so myself.
We have seen cases just falling short of a day kept the application pending for long time just because of it, dont know if they denied it(as many stopped responding after major issues or we dont follow all cases of this kind).

The help you are asking here is like asking if ircc can go against the rule. All in the forum would say and expect the ircc to obey the rule.
Because today you ask for 1 day exemption, i ask for 3 days exemption quoting your case and another person asks for 1 month exemption quoting my case. Where does it end and whats the point in having specific number of days as qualifying rule then?

I doubt that you have even calculated your residence days correctly. Possibly you have stayed 1095 days hence they granted.

For not obeying 1095 days then why do we even have specific number of days instead they can just tell that 3 or 5 calendar years(like in few other countries).

But good that they granted you. So dont tout outside and might even loose it if someone complains if the ircc officer has sidelined the law. So better to keep quiet about it is my suggestion. You can say that its your right but its up to you.
 

pillow

Star Member
Apr 18, 2016
121
40
Visa Office......
Ottawa
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4012
App. Filed.......
29-12-2015
Doc's Request.
14-03-2016
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30-01-2016
AOR Received.
02-03-2016
Med's Done....
upfront
Passport Req..
24-05-2016
VISA ISSUED...
09-06-2016
LANDED..........
19-06-2016
Just an update from me, as of August 6th 2021:

seems to be many on this forum who “think” they know the answers when they don’t

despite being 1-2 days out, I put in a very polite and explanatory letter to IRCC and as of now I have obtained my citizenship and am currently awaiting the arrival of my first Canadian passport.

So ppl, don’t respond with doom and gloom! If you are not positive on an outcome, don’t suggest it to scare ppl who write posts on here with the genuine intention of help and advice.

for anyone wanting a template of the letter, message me and I’ll send it over as it was a very well worded document, if I do say so myself.
Congratulations on getting your citizenship.

If you don't mind me sharing my story... In my case, I'm not as lucky as you. I applied for citizenship with 1095 days. I was invited and passed the test; however, the officer checked my physical presence, and she found I missed one trip to the US. It took them almost 3 years to get back to me with the answer that my application was not approved.
During the waiting period (after the test and knowing that I was short by 3 days), I tried to withdraw the application and didn't hear anything regarding the withdrawal for over 6 months; I then talked to a local immigration officer who suggested I withdraw my withdrawal application. She suggested that with the pandemic, they might be lenient. That wasn't the case for me.

If I were to go back and do it again, I would have withdrawn the application and submitted a new application right away without waiting for the acknowledgment of the withdrawal. I would have probably got citizenship by now if I had done so.
 
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iceman55

Hero Member
May 1, 2022
518
258
Congratulations on getting your citizenship.

If you don't mind me sharing my story... In my case, I'm not as lucky as you. I applied for citizenship with 1095 days. I was invited and passed the test; however, the officer checked my physical presence, and she found I missed one trip to the US. It took them almost 3 years to get back to me with the answer that my application was not approved.
During the waiting period (after the test and knowing that I was short by 3 days), I tried to withdraw the application and didn't hear anything regarding the withdrawal for over 6 months; I then talked to a local immigration officer who suggested I withdraw my withdrawal application. She suggested that with the pandemic, they might be lenient. That wasn't the case for me.

If I were to go back and do it again, I would have withdrawn the application and submitted a new application right away without waiting for the acknowledgment of the withdrawal. I would have probably got citizenship by now if I had done so.
Sorry to hear.

The post from @Yazzabbazz made it sound its the norm for IRCC to forgive small discrepencies however based on many other posts here that experience is very unique. Also Yazzabbazz chiding others for providing the practical advice just provides false hope to people stuck in similar situations. That must have been a very considerate officer in that case but in most cases IRCC officials just seem to follow a flowchart on the basic requirements just like most government offices anywhere. If the applicant fails a requirement they stop there and refuse or even worse put the application in limbo. The only places it even makes sense *imo* to hope for an alternate outcome are where humaniatarian considerations are involved.

Also if forgiving a few days becomes the norm that information travels so fast the eligibility requirement itself is effectively reduced to 1090 or 1092 days for all practical purposes. I am sure they think about these things.

Hindsight is 20/20 but its easy to get caught up reading the forum, seeing things moving for others and applying with just 1095 days. Applying with 1095 days is fine if you have never taken a trip after becoming PR or you are among those few people that can recall everything exactly (which most of us aren't). IMO i would say others should have a considerable buffer before applying.

Especially after a lot of fraud in physical presence declarations in the second half of 2010's they are going to all sources to make sure the applicant qualifies. That is probably one of the main reasons of them implementing tracking all travlers across all modes (land, air) which came into place by 2019/20.

Quick refusal is one thing, you just lose your fee paid but as @harirajmohan said above a vast majority of these cases are put in a limbo and after several years returned with a refusal. Thats the most painful outcome. Possibly they are forwarding these cases to a supervisor or someone like that and it gets stuck there for years. They definitely need to improve that process, and make it a quick refusal for cases where it is apparent its a simple mistake and there is no apparent fraud.

Based on much older posts it appears it was once the norm to forgive a few days after a hearing from a judge but it seems to rarely happen these days.

Especially travel to the US appears to be a trap because there typically are no records especially passport stamps.

You have been through a lot. You are probably already preparing to/applied again. If I were you, I would add a letter also stating the situation that because of a mistake you missed a few days in your prev application and you are reapplying because of that just to give the new officer a context. I believe previous refusals are looked at. It generally shouldnt be a problem esp in your case but giving a context never hurts.

Good luck!