Denied AFTER the test? Missing days in residence

[sazamizi]

This is a quite accurate answer. Thanks Ramsfe !
I'm a bit surprised why people think if they submit their applications with more days, it can cover any accidental mistakes ! 1096 sounds reasonable but a few weeks more doesn't make any sense.

Dear friends, Fellow applicants!

The law currently says that to apply, one should have 1095 days in Canada, the conservatives added ( unofficially) a requirement that these days be physical presence, some judges beg to differ and jurisprudence is there to confirm it.

So, if you have 1095 days + 1 day, and are absolutely sure of your number of days and of the accuracy of your declarations on the application form, then you can send send your application and have no worries.

It is true that leaving a cushion of a few days might prove helpful in some situations, however, if you declare 1500 days or 1096 days, it is the SAME when it comes to the law, since you are over the minimum requirement. However, CIC will tick on any mistake, so even if you lived here for 1500 days and forgot to mention 9 days of travel, you will have problems and will probably at least receive an RQ if not a judge hearing.

3 or 4 weeks cushion, that's just a psychological guarantee to yourself, to CIC, it is not...

In my interventions, I always try to be factual and to help others strictly follow the rules, a few months ago, I also decided to stop giving my personal interpretations that are built on more than two different variables so as not to give people the wrong advice.

Now to the person that forgot to mention 9 days, well, be honest about it and it will probably be OK, if you have over 1095 days of residence in Canada ( not necessarily physical) , then the judge will probably be hard on you but will also give you chances because if you are short of 9 days of "physical" presence, providing that you passed the test, you live here, everything else shows that you have been here before and after applying ( the KOO Test...or the Balance of probabilities), then he or she will probably approve your application because otherwise, you will be able to appeal at the supreme court and CIC will loose because you will pass the KOO Test successfully, and if CIC looses, well it will be another jurisprudence against them....

So GOOD LUCK ! Get prepared to show everything you have that can prove that you are here, don't lie about the fact that you forgot to mention some travel, don't hide anything and show them that you really belong to Canada and things will probably be ok.

 

[hopeful_canuck]

Hi everyone,

An update on my application - I received a letter in the mail from CIC for the RQ - although it only required me to provide the passport pages and my supporting travel documents, nothing else (ex. records of movement, rent/lease agreements, etc).

So it's still 50/50 at this point. I think to be realistic I'm going to prepare for the worst - my application getting denied - and start gathering documents for re-application once I send the RQ documents through.

 

[keesio]

I think the suggestion to add a few weeks cushion is a good one. Because in my interview, the interviewer noticed that some of my dates I listed were off from what was in my passport. The net result was that I miscalculated by 1 day - I had one day less than what i thought. Fortunately I had 9 days of "padding" (I applied with 1104 days) and the interviewer said something like "you are 1 day short than what you mentioned but you still have enough extra days anyway". basically if I didn't have that padding, I probably would have been RQ-rd or sent to a judge.

 

[chakrab]

i personally gave the suggestion because if the applicant is right on 1096 days, CIC will scrutinize it deeper. it's just the attitude they have to make sure the applicant has a darn good memory.

 

[keesio]

i personally gave the suggestion because if the applicant is right on 1096 days, CIC will scrutinize it deeper. it's just the attitude they have to make sure the applicant has a darn good memory.

Yeah, I agree with you.

 

[hopeful_canuck]

Which is definitely what's happening with my case. I wish I'd realized this sooner.

I think the suggestion to add a few weeks cushion is a good one. Because in my interview, the interviewer noticed that some of my dates I listed were off from what was in my passport. The net result was that I miscalculated by 1 day - I had one day less than what i thought. Fortunately I had 9 days of "padding" (I applied with 1104 days) and the interviewer said something like "you are 1 day short than what you mentioned but you still have enough extra days anyway". basically if I didn't have that padding, I probably would have been RQ-rd or sent to a judge.

 

[canopywing]

Mississauga Office will issue RQ after the exam. I got my RQ on my exam day in Dec 2013. I returned the RQ with all the documents in Jan 2014. Nothing updated since then.

 

[PakCan2013]

I totally agree with chakrab that cic scrutinize deeply if someone applying under 1100days,i know some of my friends they rushed to apply just after 1095 days and got so much delayed in process,one of my friend went for Judge hearing and Judge told him that you looks like in rush to get citizenship may be you are planning to go back home permanently after citizenship also the brighter chances to get RQ too,but choice is yours.

 

[hopeful_canuck]

I guess I have a long time to wait then....Assuming I send my RQ before March ends. Do let me know what your timeline is after!

Mississauga Office will issue RQ after the exam. I got my RQ on my exam day in Dec 2013. I returned the RQ with all the documents in Jan 2014. Nothing updated since then.

 

[vinaypuri]

Things are moving quite fast these days esp. with Mississauga it has been super fast.... so you never know. Its just a matter of time Judge looking at your documentation. Provide requested documentation properly.. may be in 2-3 weeks you will have your Oath on way.

I guess I have a long time to wait then....Assuming I send my RQ before March ends. Do let me know what your timeline is after!

 

[torontonian2003]

I applied for Canadian citizenship just shy of the 1095 residence day requirement (I believe the online calculator mentioned 1098). I believed my travel information was accurate and submitted.
They have recently called me and mentioned there are two travel dates unaccounted for; upon further research I realized that I missed mentioning roughly 9 days outside of Canada.
Thus, this puts me below the required number of residence days.

The CIC Staff manual regarding Residence is a public document viewable as a PDF file (called CP5 Residence). Please see the link below to see the manual:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/cp/cp05-eng.pdf

Here's an excerpt from the CP5 manual providing specific guidelines that CIC staff can use to assess "exceptional circumstance", that is, cases were the 1095 days criterion is not met:

In assessing whether the absences of an applicant fall within the allowable exceptions, use the
following six questions as the determinative test. These questions are those set out by Madame
Justice Reed in the Koo decision. For each question, an example is given of a circumstance that
may allow the applicant to meet the residence requirement.
1. Was the individual physically present in Canada for a long period prior to recent absences
which occurred immediately before the application for citizenship?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant lived here for 3 years before leaving Canada for
a period of several months. The applicant then returns here to permanently live in Canada and
files a citizenship application at that time.
2. Where are the applicant's immediate family and dependents (and extended family) resident?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant leaves Canada for several days each month, but
her mother-in-law, her husband and her children all continue to live in Canada while she is
outside of the country.
3. Does the pattern of physical presence in Canada indicate a returning home or merely visiting
the country?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant leaves Canada each month for 7 or 10 days, but
stays abroad at hotels where the applicant conducts business or at the home of someone the
applicant is visiting. The applicant always returns to Canada at a home owned or rented by the
applicant.
4. What is the extent of the physical absences - if an applicant is only a few days short of the
1,095 total it is easier to find deemed residence than if those absences are extensive.
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant was physically present in Canada the vast
majority of the time, despite repeated absences.
5. Is the physical absence caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment as a
missionary abroad, following a course of study abroad as a student, accepting temporary
employment abroad, accompanying a spouse who has accepted temporary employment abroad?
Example of an allowable exception: the applicant obtains permanent residence in Canada and is
offered a job here. After beginning his employment here, she is asked by her employer to serve
abroad for one year to help manage an important business venture. The applicant then returns
here after the assignment is completed to resume her work in Canada.
6. What is the quality of the connection with Canada: is it more substantial than that which exists
with any other country?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant has been spending a few months abroad, each
year, to look after his elderly parents. When in Canada, however, the applicant is involved in his
work and business ventures. He also is involved with community organizations and the vast
majority of his personal contacts (professional and social) are people who live here in Canada.
Finally, the applicant pays income tax in Canada and in no other country.
In applying this test to an application, you must decide whether the absences of the applicant fall
within the types of exceptional circumstances. If the absences do not fall within these exceptional
circumstances, you must refer the citizenship judge's complete file on the applicant to Case
Management Branch for possible appeal by the Minister. Include your analysis of why the
applicant does not appear to meet the residence requirement. Keep in mind that the delay within
which an appeal can be filed is 60 days.Cases must therefore be referred on a timely basis, or
the Minister will lose the right of appeal (see Chapter 8, "Appeals", for the procedure to follow).


Bottomline, is CIC does not summarily dismiss cases without evaluating circumstances and the nature of the absences. Being handed out an RQ is practically giving you a second chance to redeem your application.

 

[Goldline]

Hi everyone,

An update on my application - I received a letter in the mail from CIC for the RQ - although it only required me to provide the passport pages and my supporting travel documents, nothing else (ex. records of movement, rent/lease agreements, etc).

So it's still 50/50 at this point. I think to be realistic I'm going to prepare for the worst - my application getting denied - and start gathering documents for re-application once I send the RQ documents through.

My friend why you're expecting the worst. You said it yourself:" it ONLY required...NOTHING ELSE" so this is a good news and you should be happy. After a few months you'll have your Canadian passport deep in your pocket and you'll be like: oh my God how stupid I was... worrying so much for nothing" Keep hope and faith as well , don't forget God is watching over you and the Ultimate decision is His. What if you get your citizenship and loose your life in a car accident the same day. I think there are other things in life more important than being citizen of such or such country. Again this is a good news and it doesn't deserve that you "prepare for the worst" after all, as I said, your citizenship being delayed or even denied that's not the worst thing that can happen in life.

 

[vinaypuri]

Wow.. very interesting. Thanks for posting... Now I guess, its just a matter of time when they act on the app.

The CIC Staff manual regarding Residence is a public document viewable as a PDF file (called CP5 Residence). Please see the link below to see the manual:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/cp/cp05-eng.pdf

Here's an excerpt from the CP5 manual providing specific guidelines that CIC staff can use to assess "exceptional circumstance", that is, cases were the 1095 days criterion is not met:

In assessing whether the absences of an applicant fall within the allowable exceptions, use the
following six questions as the determinative test. These questions are those set out by Madame
Justice Reed in the Koo decision. For each question, an example is given of a circumstance that
may allow the applicant to meet the residence requirement.
1. Was the individual physically present in Canada for a long period prior to recent absences
which occurred immediately before the application for citizenship?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant lived here for 3 years before leaving Canada for
a period of several months. The applicant then returns here to permanently live in Canada and
files a citizenship application at that time.
2. Where are the applicant's immediate family and dependents (and extended family) resident?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant leaves Canada for several days each month, but
her mother-in-law, her husband and her children all continue to live in Canada while she is
outside of the country.
3. Does the pattern of physical presence in Canada indicate a returning home or merely visiting
the country?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant leaves Canada each month for 7 or 10 days, but
stays abroad at hotels where the applicant conducts business or at the home of someone the
applicant is visiting. The applicant always returns to Canada at a home owned or rented by the
applicant.
4. What is the extent of the physical absences - if an applicant is only a few days short of the
1,095 total it is easier to find deemed residence than if those absences are extensive.
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant was physically present in Canada the vast
majority of the time, despite repeated absences.
5. Is the physical absence caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment as a
missionary abroad, following a course of study abroad as a student, accepting temporary
employment abroad, accompanying a spouse who has accepted temporary employment abroad?
Example of an allowable exception: the applicant obtains permanent residence in Canada and is
offered a job here. After beginning his employment here, she is asked by her employer to serve
abroad for one year to help manage an important business venture. The applicant then returns
here after the assignment is completed to resume her work in Canada.
6. What is the quality of the connection with Canada: is it more substantial than that which exists
with any other country?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant has been spending a few months abroad, each
year, to look after his elderly parents. When in Canada, however, the applicant is involved in his
work and business ventures. He also is involved with community organizations and the vast
majority of his personal contacts (professional and social) are people who live here in Canada.
Finally, the applicant pays income tax in Canada and in no other country.
In applying this test to an application, you must decide whether the absences of the applicant fall
within the types of exceptional circumstances. If the absences do not fall within these exceptional
circumstances, you must refer the citizenship judge's complete file on the applicant to Case
Management Branch for possible appeal by the Minister. Include your analysis of why the
applicant does not appear to meet the residence requirement. Keep in mind that the delay within
which an appeal can be filed is 60 days.Cases must therefore be referred on a timely basis, or
the Minister will lose the right of appeal (see Chapter 8, "Appeals", for the procedure to follow).

 

[hopeful_canuck]

My faith is restored! Thanks for posting this. I have so much more energy to gather the documents now....I'm a few days short and I can definitely explain that most of my days outside of Canada were due to traveling to conferences for work.

Hooray! Again, thank you

The CIC Staff manual regarding Residence is a public document viewable as a PDF file (called CP5 Residence). Please see the link below to see the manual:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/cp/cp05-eng.pdf

Here's an excerpt from the CP5 manual providing specific guidelines that CIC staff can use to assess "exceptional circumstance", that is, cases were the 1095 days criterion is not met:

In assessing whether the absences of an applicant fall within the allowable exceptions, use the
following six questions as the determinative test. These questions are those set out by Madame
Justice Reed in the Koo decision. For each question, an example is given of a circumstance that
may allow the applicant to meet the residence requirement.
1. Was the individual physically present in Canada for a long period prior to recent absences
which occurred immediately before the application for citizenship?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant lived here for 3 years before leaving Canada for
a period of several months. The applicant then returns here to permanently live in Canada and
files a citizenship application at that time.
2. Where are the applicant's immediate family and dependents (and extended family) resident?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant leaves Canada for several days each month, but
her mother-in-law, her husband and her children all continue to live in Canada while she is
outside of the country.
3. Does the pattern of physical presence in Canada indicate a returning home or merely visiting
the country?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant leaves Canada each month for 7 or 10 days, but
stays abroad at hotels where the applicant conducts business or at the home of someone the
applicant is visiting. The applicant always returns to Canada at a home owned or rented by the
applicant.
4. What is the extent of the physical absences - if an applicant is only a few days short of the
1,095 total it is easier to find deemed residence than if those absences are extensive.
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant was physically present in Canada the vast
majority of the time, despite repeated absences.
5. Is the physical absence caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment as a
missionary abroad, following a course of study abroad as a student, accepting temporary
employment abroad, accompanying a spouse who has accepted temporary employment abroad?
Example of an allowable exception: the applicant obtains permanent residence in Canada and is
offered a job here. After beginning his employment here, she is asked by her employer to serve
abroad for one year to help manage an important business venture. The applicant then returns
here after the assignment is completed to resume her work in Canada.
6. What is the quality of the connection with Canada: is it more substantial than that which exists
with any other country?
Example of an allowable exception: an applicant has been spending a few months abroad, each
year, to look after his elderly parents. When in Canada, however, the applicant is involved in his
work and business ventures. He also is involved with community organizations and the vast
majority of his personal contacts (professional and social) are people who live here in Canada.
Finally, the applicant pays income tax in Canada and in no other country.
In applying this test to an application, you must decide whether the absences of the applicant fall
within the types of exceptional circumstances. If the absences do not fall within these exceptional
circumstances, you must refer the citizenship judge's complete file on the applicant to Case
Management Branch for possible appeal by the Minister. Include your analysis of why the
applicant does not appear to meet the residence requirement. Keep in mind that the delay within
which an appeal can be filed is 60 days.Cases must therefore be referred on a timely basis, or
the Minister will lose the right of appeal (see Chapter 8, "Appeals", for the procedure to follow).


Bottomline, is CIC does not summarily dismiss cases without evaluating circumstances and the nature of the absences. Being handed out an RQ is practically giving you a second chance to redeem your application.

 

[vinaypuri]

Very well said Goldline. Cheers.

My friend why you're expecting the worst. You said it yourself:" it ONLY required...NOTHING ELSE" so this is a good news and you should be happy. After a few months you'll have your Canadian passport deep in your pocket and you'll be like: oh my God how stupid I was... worrying so much for nothing" Keep hope and faith as well , don't forget God is watching over you and the Ultimate decision is His. What if you get your citizenship and loose your life in a car accident the same day. I think there are other things in life more important than being citizen of such or such country. Again this is a good news and it doesn't deserve that you "prepare for the worst" after all, as I said, your citizenship being delayed or even denied that's not the worst thing that can happen in life.