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Custody / PR legal question...

marlasinger

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You have no idea how happy the kids and my husband would be if something like that was put into writing. He deserves it. So do the kids. Bottom line. We're feeling pretty confident now. Or at least I am. My husband will worry about this until it's over. Thanks! :)
 

canadianwoman

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Joint custody does not mean each parent gets the kids for about half the time. It means legal custody where each parent is allowed input into important decisions about the children's live - such as residence, education, health, religion. You can have joint legal custody but with primary residence with one parent and the other getting visitation. If the kids spend more than 60 percent of their time with you and your husband, he should not be paying child support - the mother should be. If they spend between 40 & 60 per cent of their time with you, then whichever parent has the bigger income should be paying child support. The court will take into account the fact your husband doesn't have a job yet. Once he does he may have the bigger income. Irrelevant if the kids are with you more than 60 per cent of the time though.
 

Sheps

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Child support has been about who has the bigger income. It is in terms of custodial and non-custodial.
 

marlasinger

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canadianwoman said:
Joint custody does not mean each parent gets the kids for about half the time. It means legal custody where each parent is allowed input into important decisions about the children's live - such as residence, education, health, religion. You can have joint legal custody but with primary residence with one parent and the other getting visitation...
On her custody petition, she specifically wrote "Full custody of daughter given to mother. Enforce 50/50 time split with son." In their separation agreement, it says my husband gets them one week and his ex gets them one week. They've never followed this pattern, my husband has always had them 70% of the time. and now with the move to Canada it's not possible. Since the move she's had them 20% (if we kept going the way we are, by the end of the year it would be closer to 40%). So I'm not sure how she wants to enforce that particular split of time without totally messing up their schooling and social lives. My stepdaughter has to miss a birthday party this weekend because of visitation with her mother, and she's actually really upset. The oldest, my stepson, must have been Googling or something, because he came to us the other day and asked if he'd get a chance to speak to a child assigned lawyer. We said probably and he was like, "Good! I want to!" He's quite anxious to let it be known what kind of mother he has and that he wants to stay with his father.

I mentioned in a previous post that our lawyer looked over the divorce decree and found no actual mention of any specific custody agreement (it's only in the separation agreement). So we're issuing a cross-petition to her custody petition asking that a brand new order be put in place that names my husband as the primary residence and Canada as their place of schooling. In terms of the kid's well-being, their mother's behaviour we have documented and the children's wishes, our lawyer sees this being granted.

canadianwoman said:
...then whichever parent has the bigger income should be paying child support. The court will take into account the fact your husband doesn't have a job yet. Once he does he may have the bigger income. Irrelevant if the kids are with you more than 60 per cent of the time though.
Right. Everything we've read or been told and consulted on specifically says that income isn't taken into account. The way we've come to understand the law is: if one parent is the custodial parent based on time and care of the children, then the other is the non-custodial parent. The non-custodial parent owes child support, regardless of whose income is bigger. This is what you're saying, yes? But, if the magistrate deems it would make the non-custodial parent's life considerably harder by paying child support, it won't be granted. My husband is the custodial parent. We can prove that quite easily. Our lawyer has already issued our cross-petition asking current child support be ended based on these facts, and if the magistrate sees fit, to award my husband with support payments. Given his ex's income, it likely won't be more than $50/month. Which we will agree not to take from her if the magistrate says they're not comfortable forcing a woman on her income to pay support. But we've put it in our petition so that his ex knows it's a possibility. These two suits were made with zero knowledge of the law or what a court looks for when making custody arrangements. This is just letting her know the law is on our side.

The support hearing comes before the custody hearing, so without taking any of the custody arguments into account, the support hearing will be pretty straight forward. We've been told to be confident that, barring his ex making some scene or strange demands that cause a delay, that support will be terminated for his ex this Thursday.
 

Sheps

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That is good to hear!

I am glad things are looking on the up for you and your Husband. Honestly, if she hadn't gotten greedy with wanting more child support and everything, you probably could have maintained the 60/40 split for a number of years because none of the information on custody and child support would have came to light.
 

marlasinger

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Sheps said:
That is good to hear!

I am glad things are looking on the up for you and your Husband. Honestly, if she hadn't gotten greedy with wanting more child support and everything, you probably could have maintained the 60/40 split for a number of years because none of the information on custody and child support would have came to light.
My husband and I were just saying that. It seems to me that this needed to happen - as much of a pain in the ass as it is - so that we knew the law and we could establish what is best for the kids. My husband had no idea there was no custody agreement in his divorce. He had no idea he didn't need to pay child support and that joint custody didn't mean splitting equal time. And obviously his ex doesn't know these things either. We would have just kept going on like this until the kids were of-age. Now that the kids are here and settled, it's looking as though his ex is going to end up with less than she had before. And she did this coming from a place of wanting to hurt my husband and thinking that just because she's the mother, and because she (used to) make less than him, that she could have whatever she wanted.
 

Alurra71

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I have my fingers, toes, eyes, legs and anything else that will cross, crossed for you!

I wish you and your family the very best of luck and here is to hoping that all turns out well for the children.

BTW, if stepdaughter is that distraught about missing a party with a 'new' friend, then perhaps you should allow her to call her mother, and tell her she doesn't wish to visit this weekend because she is making new friends and would like to attend a party. Don't tell her she doesn't have to go, just tell her she can call and speak to her mother about it. If her mom has ANY compassion at all, she will be willing to allow the wee one to settle in and attend a party she obviously really wants to attend.

Just my two cents worth :D
 

canadianwoman

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I'm glad to hear things seem to be going well. Good for you to file an application to have a new custody order when the wife did the same. It sounds like things will work out in your favour.
 

Lammawitch

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I just wanted to add about a million ++++1s to Alurra71's advice here! And much support to the OP & family.

It's very scary/stressful when something like this happens, even without the added complication of an international border.

My children's father attempted a similar "stunt" years ago; I did get the case heard in Canada as the judge in his place of residence took one look at it and said "wrong jurisdiction". We went from a similarly informal custody/residence/support agreement to sole custody & primary residence (I counter-petitioned) granted to me along with an order for child support (we'd never received any). In court the judge told me, & it's written in the final judgment, that I was under no obligation to facilitate visitation above/beyond what was spelled out.

Fingers crossed for speedy resolution, & much kudos to the OP & husband for their "let's try and remain objective, rather than play on the negatives" attitude.
 

marlasinger

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Thank you all for your kind words and well wishes. It's been nice to have a place to go and talk to objective people. My husband needs to be reassured and to talk this stuff out, but at a certain point he'll say to me, "ok we need to stop now."

Alurra71 said:
...perhaps you should allow her to call her mother, and tell her she doesn't wish to visit this weekend because she is making new friends and would like to attend a party. Don't tell her she doesn't have to go, just tell her she can call and speak to her mother about it. If her mom has ANY compassion at all, she will be willing to allow the wee one to settle in and attend a party she obviously really wants to attend.
We did try this. It was hard to get her to call and ask - she was nervous and scared. And in the end her mother said, "no, this is my weekend." Because it's all about her. My stepson said he was googling his mother's behaviour and has decided she's a narcissist. The truth is if this woman gets any more access to the kids then she already does, it's going to keep affecting them negatively in an emotional and social way. She's a person who can't get along with anyone, so she has no social life besides her children. She uses the kids to fill that hole. She's not normal - to the point that her son is trying to WebMD what the hell could be wrong with her. Anyway...

Lammawitch said:
...It's very scary/stressful when something like this happens, even without the added complication of an international border.

My children's father attempted a similar "stunt" years ago; I did get the case heard in Canada as the judge in his place of residence took one look at it and said "wrong jurisdiction". We went from a similarly informal custody/residence/support agreement to sole custody & primary residence (I counter-petitioned) granted to me along with an order for child support (we'd never received any). In court the judge told me, & it's written in the final judgment, that I was under no obligation to facilitate visitation above/beyond what was spelled out.
Thank you for sharing this. We're filing a motion to have the case brought to Canada attached to the cross-petition of custody, but according to our lawyer it's only because this is our best chance to get the case to our side. After that it will likely be stuck in New York state indefinitely if the motion is denied. We've been told judges in NY are more strict with holding onto jurisdiction than other states, but that the one thing working in our favour are the forms she signed for CIC agreeing to relocate the children's residence to Canada. So I suppose there's a small chance of an Ontario court getting jurisdiction over custody issues. In which case, it would be a huge deterrent to her filing anymore frivolous cases.

Do you mind me asking what kind of evidence or facts you presented to the court against your ex? I want to be as prepared as possible with ideas of evidence we can gather for our lawyer - things he can really work with at the custody hearing to prove our point about the kid' well-being. And if by chance your kids spoke to an child advocate lawyer - what kinds of question were they asked?