Conflict Regarding my immigration status in Canada........urgent help needed !!

[k.h.p.]

You probably need a lawyer to help you through getting a non-temporary SIN, but beyond that, you are a PR and have been since 2006 and you don't lose that status until you are formally reported and the status is rescinded. Your time in Canada from when you re-entered counts towards your PR RO, even if IRCC mistakenly issued you a study visa and you entered as a temporary resident.

This is really fascinating.

 

[shikharpandey]

It doesn't matter how you entered Canada. You had PR before you entered, you entered. They count.

You were not in Canada as a temporary resident because you cannot be when you have PR. You were in Canada as a PR.

OMG......Its sometime hard to believe. But really, thanks to both of you. You have given me optimism regarding this. I am going to speak with a lawyer very soon regarding this. Hope, things turn out fine here.

 

[21Goose]

OMG......Its sometime hard to believe. But really, thanks to both of you. You have given me optimism regarding this. I am going to speak with a lawyer very soon regarding this. Hope, things turn out fine here.

Good luck. And remember, whatever you do, do NOT renounce your PR.

 

[shikharpandey]

Well, you cannot apply for a work permit without renouncing your PR. And you DO NOT want to renounce your PR (unless you really don't care about being a Canadian PR, then sure, renounce it).

I know it seems scary, but there's no reason to be scared. The rules are very clear - you can read them here - https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...-immigrants/pr-card/understand-pr-status.html

In a nutshell, a PR who does not meet his RO (that's you), is supposed to be stopped at the border and CBSA can then either let you in without an issue, or begin the process of revoking your PR. If they did not begin that process (which they didn't), and you were allowed in, you are immediately in status and do not need to worry about anything except staying in Canada for 2 whole years to meet your RO.

As a PR, you have all the rights of any permanent resident of Canada. You can live and work freely anywhere in the country. You qualify for healthcare as well.

PR status is NOT dependent on the card expiring. You are a PR unless a competent authority revokes your status. In your case, there is no cause to revoke your status (unless you do something stupid like getting arrested for a serious crime, DUI, etc).

Don't worry about what someone tells your about other people who didn't get a card. You have no idea whether that's true, and even if it is, the circumstances may be very different (maybe that person had a criminal record). The law is clear and you are a PR.

Its strange that they didn't even question me when I visited india for 3 weeks last summer and nobody said anything when I returned. I visited US for few days as well 2 months back for a weekend and returned back without any issue. Its pretty strange. But I will count that time as well for residency obligation in future.

 

[21Goose]

Its strange that they didn't even question me when I visited india for 3 weeks last summer and nobody said anything when I returned. I visited US for few days as well 2 months back for a weekend and returned back without any issue. Its pretty strange. But I will count that time as well for residency obligation in future.

Make sure you don't leave Canada now. Since you have been flagged as a PR, you will need either a valid PR card or a PRTD to get back in. And you may be refused a PRTD since you don't meet RO.

Stay put till you have 730+ days of actual physical presence in Canada - subtract any days that you travelled between 2017-2019, those won't count.

 

[shikharpandey]

Make sure you don't leave Canada now. Since you have been flagged as a PR, you will need either a valid PR card or a PRTD to get back in. And you may be refused a PRTD since you don't meet RO.

Stay put till you have 730+ days of actual physical presence in Canada - subtract any days that you travelled between 2017-2019, those won't count.

Yes,it looks like I won't be leaving Canada anytime soon. I will keep in mind 730 days.

By the way can I apply for https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...-status-replacement-immigration-document.html now
Status verification
Or can that also cause any issue with my PR ??

 

[21Goose]

Yes,it looks like I won't be leaving Canada anytime soon. I will keep in mind 730 days.

By the way can I apply for https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...-status-replacement-immigration-document.html now
Status verification
Or can that also cause any issue with my PR ??

No, you can apply anytime and it will not cause any issues. However, I would recommend you try getting your expired PR card and your old CoPR from India first. Those should be enough to get the SIN number and you may not need the replacement.

 

[shikharpandey]

No, you can apply anytime and it will not cause any issues. However, I would recommend you try getting your expired PR card and your old CoPR from India first. Those should be enough to get the SIN number and you may not need the replacement.

Alright Thanks for the motivation both of you. I will speak with a lawyer soon and try to get my PR cards from India as soon as possible. If I have any issue, I will bug you guys again.

Thanks again

 

[shikharpandey]

Hello Everyone once again

As I was advised to see a lawyer earlier. I would like your opinion on my situation about what was suggested by an immigration lawyer I consulted in Montreal, Canada. After I explained the whole situation to her, She has advised me to not cancel my work permit application because it allows me to work full time right now in Canada. She has advised me to wait and see how the IRCC responds to my application of work permit (PGWP). She explained that the department of temporary and permanent residencies work separately. She said if I apply for my PR Card it completely depends on the Visa Officer if he would renew my PR card or not. Legally, I am PR in their record and I should apply after completing the residency obligation.

However she advised that along with my application documents for PR Card application, I should write a letter to the office as well on humanitarian grounds explaining everything and try bringing cultural context in it as well while telling why I didn't came to Canada in 10 years after leaving. Just application documents won't be enough. If I write that letter then there might be a possibility of getting a PR card renewed from the Visa officer.

I also asked if my PGWP application is refused based on my current status being PR, then she suggested I would have a letter of reason for refusal from the office which would state that I am a PR right now and using that I can keep on working till I apply for my PR card renewal. She also told that any further document request or response in a online PGWP comes late and probably by the end of 3 months and till that time my Residency obligation would be coming close to be fulfilled.

However if my PR card renewal request is refused and PR status is taken from me after I apply (after a PGWP application is refused for first time), then I have to rush immediately towards a Canadian border and reapply for a PGWP and get the work permit immediately without waiting since I won't have much time left till then. I can apply for a PGWP only within first 6 months of getting a degree which is starting of November for me.

However one thing is not sure, that if my PGWP application is not refused but kept on hold (like my parent's visitor visa) until further documents like PR renunciation etc are given, what will I do then. The lawyer advised me to wait and see how they respond to my application of PGWP which I have submitted 15 days back. She said we have to respond according to what they say.

I would like to know you guy's opinion regarding my lawyer's suggestions and would you suggest that I should take another second opinion from a different lawyer ?? @k.h.p. @21Goose
Sorry for this long post again.

 

[k.h.p.]

Didn't you say you already had a letter saying you were a PR by extension, from your parent's visitor visa application?

I'm not a lawyer and I can't provide you with comments on legal advice you received, unfortunately. If you want a second opinion, it's always worth getting one.

 

[21Goose]

I'm not a lawyer in Canada, but I can give you my opinion. Feel free to disregard it - I'm not claiming to know more than a professional, I'm just a guy on the internet. But hey, I can have an opinion.

I explained the whole situation to her, She has advised me to not cancel my work permit application because it allows me to work full time right now in Canada. She has advised me to wait and see how the IRCC responds to my application of work permit (PGWP). She explained that the department of temporary and permanent residencies work separately....
....

I also asked if my PGWP application is refused based on my current status being PR, then she suggested I would have a letter of reason for refusal from the office which would state that I am a PR right now and using that I can keep on working till I apply for my PR card renewal.


Ok, I can sorta understand this part. Doesn't hurt to wait and see, and makes sense to see if they reply saying you're already a PR, that will make it even clearer.

She said if I apply for my PR Card it completely depends on the Visa Officer if he would renew my PR card or not.

I don't agree with the emphasized bit. If you are a PR, and you have complied with the residency obligation, the officer does not have the discretion to deny you a PR card (barring criminality etc, but that doesn't apply here). The officer may well ask you to prove RO, and ask for further documents etc, but again, IF you are a PR AND you have complied with your RO (and you have proved this to the officer), I do not believe he can deny you the PR card.

Legally, I am PR in their record and I should apply after completing the residency obligation.

Yes, I agree.

However she advised that along with my application documents for PR Card application, I should write a letter to the office as well on humanitarian grounds explaining everything and try bringing cultural context in it as well while telling why I didn't came to Canada in 10 years after leaving. Just application documents won't be enough. If I write that letter then there might be a possibility of getting a PR card renewed from the Visa officer.

Here, it feels like your lawyer is covering her bases. I don't see why H&C is needed - you are a PR, and you have met your RO. You don't need to ask for H&C consideration. However, I also can't see why this would hurt your case so whatever, why not. I disagree with the "might be a possibility bit", for the same reasons stated above.


I also asked if my PGWP application is refused based on my current status being PR, then she suggested I would have a letter of reason for refusal from the office which would state that I am a PR right now and using that I can keep on working till I apply for my PR card renewal. She also told that any further document request or response in a online PGWP comes late and probably by the end of 3 months and till that time my Residency obligation would be coming close to be fulfilled.

Makes sense.

However if my PR card renewal request is refused and PR status is taken from me after I apply (after a PGWP application is refused for first time), then I have to rush immediately towards a Canadian border and reapply for a PGWP and get the work permit immediately without waiting since I won't have much time left till then. I can apply for a PGWP only within first 6 months of getting a degree which is starting of November for me.

However one thing is not sure, that if my PGWP application is not refused but kept on hold (like my parent's visitor visa) until further documents like PR renunciation etc are given, what will I do then. The lawyer advised me to wait and see how they respond to my application of PGWP which I have submitted 15 days back. She said we have to respond according to what they say.

I don't see how they will both refuse your PGWP for being a PR and then not give you a PR card. That doesn't make sense. Either you're a PR or you're not. If they say you're not, you get PGWP. If they say you're a PR, you don't need the PGWP.

Also, you do NOT need a PR card unless you want to travel outside Canada. You should still get your old documents and go apply for a SIN number. I don't see any reason why you should wait for that, it's got nothing to do with your PGWP or any immigration applications you put in.

If you get your SIN (beginning with a 5), then you really can start working immediately.

So, in summary

1. Your lawyer does sound credible. She may be deliberately simplifying things for you, but on the whole she doesn't come across as a lawyer who doesn't know her stuff (this does happen, there's an unfortunate case on the forum from a few days back)

2. I still think that you should use your old PR documentation to go get a SIN. If you get a SIN, that's that.. you can start working immediately. It will take you 30 minutes. If Service Canada asks why you didn't get a SIN before the docs expired, just say that you were a child and you didn't know you needed one. You don't need to go into exhaustive detail about your situation, I'm quite certain they won't care.

The worst case is they deny you.. they aren't going to report you to IRCC or impact any applications you may have. So you walk out of the office exactly where you are right now.

3. A second opinion is entirely up to you. Personally, I would get one - not because this lawyer is bad, she doesn't sound bad - but because your case is somewhat unique and obviously your current lawyer hasn't dealt with exactly this situation before. Perhaps another lawyer has seen this play out and knows exactly what will happen. If you can afford it, then why not.

 

[shikharpandey]

Didn't you say you already had a letter saying you were a PR by extension, from your parent's visitor visa application?

I'm not a lawyer and I can't provide you with comments on legal advice you received, unfortunately. If you want a second opinion, it's always worth getting one.

@k.h.p. I explained my entire situation to the lawyer like I wrote in the first post here. My parents (including my brother) when applied for Visitor Visa, got a letter from Visa office stating that they are PRs since 2006 and were asked to either file for a formal assessment to go through or renounce the PR. Out of which my parent's chose renouncing.
When it comes to me I actually spoke with CIC and gave them my UCI. They talked to the program specialist and then they said that my current status is that of PR, I have a study permit and an application of PGWP which is in progress. I can either renounce it or apply for PR card.
All this was verbal and I don't have any document proof of it. Although I do have an expired PR Card and confirmation of PR letter (probably) back in India which I can ask my parents to courier it to me.
I even told my lawyer about this as well. I haven't applied for a status verification document yet.
I have already applied for PGWP online and it depends on how they respond to it like if they refuse it saying I am PR then I have a letter from them. Until then I don't have anything from them. In my family also while applying for the visitor Visa only my parents got that letter regarding PR status and not my brother (who is still under 18)...........

I am thinking of getting a 2nd opinion from a lawyer as well.

 

[shikharpandey]

@21Goose

I don't agree with the emphasized bit. If you are a PR, and you have complied with the residency obligation, the officer does not have the discretion to deny you a PR card (barring criminality etc, but that doesn't apply here). The officer may well ask you to prove RO, and ask for further documents etc, but again, IF you are a PR AND you have complied with your RO (and you have proved this to the officer), I do not believe he can deny you the PR card.

After I talked to her, she wasn't overly excited or too optimistic like it felt she wanted to convey that its not 100% and I should not take it for granted and she wanted me to cover the temporary resident requirement as well in the meantime and not cancel the PGWP application as it would allow me to work full time in Canada just in case my PR doesn't stand.
But She clearly stated that if she was in my place she would definitely take this 'chance' of getting a PR with applying for the PR because renunciation of PR is anyway a 6 month process and advised me against travelling.

Here, it feels like your lawyer is covering her bases. I don't see why H&C is needed - you are a PR, and you have met your RO. You don't need to ask for H&C consideration. However, I also can't see why this would hurt your case so whatever, why not. I disagree with the "might be a possibility bit", for the same reasons stated above.

Well, she clearly advised me to explain everything in that letter and include the humanitarian aspect as and said just submitting the document without the letter would not explain everything to the Visa officer

I don't see how they will both refuse your PGWP for being a PR and then not give you a PR card. That doesn't make sense. Either you're a PR or you're not. If they say you're not, you get PGWP. If they say you're a PR, you don't need the PGWP.

Also, you do NOT need a PR card unless you want to travel outside Canada. You should still get your old documents and go apply for a SIN number. I don't see any reason why you should wait for that, it's got nothing to do with your PGWP or any immigration applications you put in.

If you get your SIN (beginning with a 5), then you really can start working immediately.

I also think that they won't be refusing both of them. One of my friend also said that I will get my PGWP this time only. But just in case both of them are refused, then probably I have to rush towards the Canadian border immediately ?? since I can apply for a PGWP only within first 6 months of getting a degree and then apply for the PGWP 2nd time (this time showing my PR status is refused or not valid anymore) which she suggested when I asked about such a situation

Regarding the SIN number, my current SIN number (begins with 9) is the one I got after I came to Canada along with my study permit and it is valid till end of August 2019 (like my study permit). Since I have applied for a PGWP I can work full time on that SIN till it expires. I don't know what to do with my SIN after August 2019 since if I have my PGWP by then I get my new SIN according to that. But if PGWP is refused, then I should use that letter (that refuses PGWP and states I am a PR) for getting the SIN number if I don't use my old documentation ????

Should I call CIC once again and check with them again about my current status being PR or should I apply for verification of status document since having a PR status is the core of all this thing and I should try and verify it ?
I am still thinking of taking a 2nd opinion from another lawyer although the lawyer I have just met seems to be credible and has previously worked at my university as an immigration lawyer and probably has dealt with issues related to students (although my situation is crazy).
These are pretty crazy times for me..........waiting for a response from IRCC and this uncertainty takes the better of any person. One last thing.........my lawyer also said that if I am going to start working somewhere or take a job.............I should tell my status is that of one currently on PGWP and not a PR because the PR matter is still not completely sorted and I can also not say anything clearly about it until I get my PR card renewed. Moreover not everyone would understand this issue. So better work as someone on PGWP or one who has applied for a PGWP and currently working full time.

 

[21Goose]

Why don't you try getting a proper resident SIN? You can do that right now.

You said you had the CoPR and the expired PR card. That + your passport should be enough to get a resident SIN.

 

[shikharpandey]

@21Goose Yes I can try getting a proper resident SIN but I thought I should wait for a response for my PGWP application from IRCC.

My expired PR card and CoPR are back in India with my family and not with me right now ( I also told that some posts earlier as well) but I am planning to get them couriered by my parents to me. Then I can apply for a resident SIN.