Condition 51 - definition of co-habitate

[chilkootcee]

Hi all,

My husband landed April 1 and I was with him. We had a discussion with the immigration officer about the condition 51 as I had made a comment that it would prevent me (the sponsor) from working short term contracts in other locations than where my husband is located. He said, "Why not?". So he pretty much said, as long as we are "in a relationship", if I'm working on short term contracts away from my husband it still is considered "co-habitate". He then went on to say, that if I found work overseas, and my husband accompanied me while I was working, that counted as time in Canada. I had seen something similar to this on the CIC page, but it had referenced military personnel and government service personnel.

To be honest, I'm not trusting what he has said...anyone else want to weigh in on this topic?

C.

 

[Alurra71]

Hi all,

My husband landed April 1 and I was with him. We had a discussion with the immigration officer about the condition 51 as I had made a comment that it would prevent me (the sponsor) from working short term contracts in other locations than where my husband is located. He said, "Why not?". So he pretty much said, as long as we are "in a relationship", if I'm working on short term contracts away from my husband it still is considered "co-habitate". He then went on to say, that if I found work overseas, and my husband accompanied me while I was working, that counted as time in Canada. I had seen something similar to this on the CIC page, but it had referenced military personnel and government service personnel.

To be honest, I'm not trusting what he has said...anyone else want to weigh in on this topic?

C.

It really depends on how long your 'short term contracts' really are and whether or not CIC decides to check up on this stuff. If it's months at a time you are away then they COULD be asses and claim you're breaking Condition 51. As far as leaving the country, as long as YOU are a canadian citizen then yes, time spent abroad with you will count as time in Canada for your PR spouse.

 

[canadianwoman]

Cohabitate means live together. However, you can be apart for short periods. If your contracts are short, it should be fine. For example, if you went somewhere else for two weeks, you would still keep your home as your permanent address, and all your things would still be there. Just like taking a vacation - you do not move out of your house for two weeks, it is still your permanent residence. You lived at your house from 2010 to 2015, for example; you wouldn't say you lived there from 2010 to 2015, except for two weeks in April 2010 when you went to Hawaii, three weeks in 2011 when you went to Costa Rica, and two months in 2014 when you traveled around Europe. Same with a couple: if they have not broken up, they are still a couple even if one of them is away for a couple of weeks.

In addition, most likely CIC or CBSA would only investigate couples for condition 51 if one party complained that the other had left.

And it is true that if the two of you live overseas together, that time counts as part of the PR's residency requirement.

 

[chilkootcee]

Interesting as I was very clear that the contracts were usually 3 to 11 months where I take up temp residence in the country I am working...and the immigration officer insisted that this wouldn't be a problem. I agree with the posts though...

 

[canadianwoman]

Interesting as I was very clear that the contracts were usually 3 to 11 months where I take up temp residence in the country I am working...and the immigration officer insisted that this wouldn't be a problem. I agree with the posts though...

I would not worry about a three-month contract once in a two-year period, but 11 months? Even though most likely CIC and CBSA would not find out unless someone complained, I would not spend 11 months away from my spouse during the conditional period. It would be better for your spouse to accompany you, if possible.

 

[lonelyguy]

I am sorry to comment in different way, but if you have a true relationship why would you caring about this.if your husband and yourself are planing to live together as long as you can, condition 51 should not be any issue for you whatever way they count it. some people get concerned about it since some applicants change wants in Canada, and leave their sponsors.

 

[Rob_TO]

Hi all,

My husband landed April 1 and I was with him. We had a discussion with the immigration officer about the condition 51 as I had made a comment that it would prevent me (the sponsor) from working short term contracts in other locations than where my husband is located. He said, "Why not?". So he pretty much said, as long as we are "in a relationship", if I'm working on short term contracts away from my husband it still is considered "co-habitate". He then went on to say, that if I found work overseas, and my husband accompanied me while I was working, that counted as time in Canada. I had seen something similar to this on the CIC page, but it had referenced military personnel and government service personnel.

To be honest, I'm not trusting what he has said...anyone else want to weigh in on this topic?

The officer is wrong. The rule has 2 parts 1. "in a relationship", and 2. cohabiting. The rule is very specific that the PR must physically live with the sponsor for 2 years after landing. Definition of "cohabitation" for immigration, is the same used for common-law qualifying. And there is zero chance a couple could claim they've "cohabited" for a year to be common-law, if they spent 11 months apart.

So spending 3-11 months residing in another country, would most certainly be in violation of condition 51.

However as long as you don't report the breakdown in relationship to CIC, the odds of anything actually happening is very slim. CIC states they will do random checks of people, but again the odds of this happening are probably very small (especially considering the Liberals are eliminating Condition 51 completely for new applicants).

 

[chilkootcee]

I am sorry to comment in different way, but if you have a true relationship why would you caring about this.if your husband and yourself are planing to live together as long as you can, condition 51 should not be any issue for you whatever way they count it. some people get concerned about it since some applicants change wants in Canada, and leave their sponsors.

I love my husband and there is no question of our commitment to each other...however the nature of my career and work experience has consisted of contracts overseas for periods ranging from 3 to 11 months. Our first priority is to return to Canada...but not with both of us unemployed...why should my ability to obtain meaningful work be hampered? We have lived apart while married previously and it hasn't lessened our love or commitment to each other...

Does anyone know if the plan to remove Conditon 51 will be retroactive? Seems not fair if not the case (and will only be an issue for 2 years from the date it takes effect)

Regardless...I'm the law abiding type and wouldn't risk it

C.

 

[Ponga]

I love my husband and there is no question of our commitment to each other...however the nature of my career and work experience has consisted of contracts overseas for periods ranging from 3 to 11 months. Our first priority is to return to Canada...but not with both of us unemployed...why should my ability to obtain meaningful work be hampered? We have lived apart while married previously and it hasn't lessened our love or commitment to each other...

Does anyone know if the plan to remove Conditon 51 will be retroactive? Seems not fair if not the case (and will only be an issue for 2 years from the date it takes effect)

Regardless...I'm the law abiding type and wouldn't risk it

C.

There are many people here (perhaps the overwhelming majority) that find it appalling that CIC is talking about removing Condition 51, because it will NOT mean that spouses will be granted `immediate PR'. This is just another misunderstanding by CIC of how Condition 51 really works. The Liberal's don't seem to understand that removing this will not change the fact that all persons that land (with or without Condition 51) are PRs from that date forward...`immediately'.

Now, if they really want to make an improvement in the broken system, let them do exactly what they're saying, by truly granting immediate PR! Let all spouses have a conditional PR, pending whatever final approval that CIC needs to make. At least this will allow them to legally live, work, travel and return to Canada, while CIC does whatever they need to do to verify the applicant and the relationship. You know...they can live like a human being, just because they want to be with their loved one.


Unfortunately, the conditional PR doesn't really care about the nature of your career, as being a valid reason why you aren't able to comply.

 

[mikeymyke]

I love my husband and there is no question of our commitment to each other...however the nature of my career and work experience has consisted of contracts overseas for periods ranging from 3 to 11 months. Our first priority is to return to Canada...but not with both of us unemployed...why should my ability to obtain meaningful work be hampered? We have lived apart while married previously and it hasn't lessened our love or commitment to each other...

Does anyone know if the plan to remove Conditon 51 will be retroactive? Seems not fair if not the case (and will only be an issue for 2 years from the date it takes effect)

Regardless...I'm the law abiding type and wouldn't risk it

C.

But at the same time, you knew that when you were sponsoring your husband, that you were to live with your spouse for 2 years. Why would you go forth with the sponsorship if you're not prepared to accept this rule? It sucks I know, because you're clearly in a genuine relationship, but everyone knew of this rule already.

 

[Rob_TO]

why should my ability to obtain meaningful work be hampered? We have lived apart while married previously and it hasn't lessened our love or commitment to each other...

The rule does not make any allowances for work or other reasons, it simply states you must cohabit and keep breaks temporary and short. This is to prevent cases of marriage fraud where a Canadian has been paid to marry and sponsor someone for PR, and after getting PR they lead separate lives and have no intent to live with each other. Evidence of a continued long distance relationship can be faked, so CIC simply states that everyone must cohabit to be sure.

That being said, I'm sure if you ever did leave for work for an extended time and were discovered one way or another, CIC would look at each violation of Condition 51 on a case by case basis and you would have a good chance of keeping your PR (just my own opinion here).

 

[chilkootcee]

It's not a matter of not knowing about it but of fairness...if they want to remove the condition they should do it for all and retroactively.

Regarding instant PR with condition as the application is reviewed...good idea overall...anything that promotes getting settled and getting on with life in Canada.

Well it's a bit of a rhetorical question for us anyways as we are cohabitating now and can easily work and remain in this situation for 2 years if we stay in the middle east...but if both of us want to be working always it might mean I will be unemployed temporarily while I look for work wherever he ends up in Canada (our strategy is for im to look find work first, then I will look in the the same location...we can't find work independently in separate locations because of the condition

C.

 

[chilkootcee]

Came across this in http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5529ETOC.asp and thought the following was interesting:

Time spent outside of Canada

You may also count days outside of Canada as days for which you satisfy the residency obligation in the following circumstances:

OPTION 1. Accompanying a Canadian citizen or permanent resident outside Canada

You may count each day that you accompanied a Canadian citizen or permanent resident outside Canada provided that

• the person you accompanied is your spouse, common-law partner or parent (if you are a child under 19 years of age);
• if you are accompanying a permanent resident, they were employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the public service of Canada or of a province or territory during the period you accompanied them.

Evidence required

You must provide supporting documents to prove that:

The person you are accompanying is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident (and that the permanent resident you are accompanying meets his or her own residency obligation); and
You are the spouse, common-law partner or child of that person.

Supporting documents may include:

-marriage licence or evidence of common-law partnership (mandatory if you are accompanying a spouse or common-law partner)
-child’s birth certificate, baptismal document, or adoption or guardianship document (mandatory if you are accompanying a parent)
-all passports or other travel documents of the person you are accompanying used in the five years before the application (mandatory)
-school or employment records
-association or club memberships
-documents showing the citizenship of the person you are accompanying, including the date the person became a Canadian citizen, or documents showing that the permanent resident you are accompanying meets their residency obligation (mandatory)
-evidence of the residential addresses of the person you are accompanying for the five (5) years before the application (mandatory)
-any other documents that you want to have considered

Perhaps the immigration officer at the port where my husband landed was correct....

C.

 

[Alurra71]

Came across this in http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5529ETOC.asp and thought the following was interesting:

Time spent outside of Canada

You may also count days outside of Canada as days for which you satisfy the residency obligation in the following circumstances:

OPTION 1. Accompanying a Canadian citizen or permanent resident outside Canada

You may count each day that you accompanied a Canadian citizen or permanent resident outside Canada provided that

• the person you accompanied is your spouse, common-law partner or parent (if you are a child under 19 years of age);
• if you are accompanying a permanent resident, they were employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the public service of Canada or of a province or territory during the period you accompanied them.

Evidence required

You must provide supporting documents to prove that:

The person you are accompanying is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident (and that the permanent resident you are accompanying meets his or her own residency obligation); and
You are the spouse, common-law partner or child of that person.

Supporting documents may include:

-marriage licence or evidence of common-law partnership (mandatory if you are accompanying a spouse or common-law partner)
-child’s birth certificate, baptismal document, or adoption or guardianship document (mandatory if you are accompanying a parent)
-all passports or other travel documents of the person you are accompanying used in the five years before the application (mandatory)
-school or employment records
-association or club memberships
-documents showing the citizenship of the person you are accompanying, including the date the person became a Canadian citizen, or documents showing that the permanent resident you are accompanying meets their residency obligation (mandatory)
-evidence of the residential addresses of the person you are accompanying for the five (5) years before the application (mandatory)
-any other documents that you want to have considered

Perhaps the immigration officer at the port where my husband landed was correct....

C.

This is stating that as long as you and your spouse are together, in the same household, then he can count his days spent OUTSIDE of Canada, spent with you, as days inside Canada for purpose of keeping his PR, which was what everyone has told you in this thread. What it does NOT cover is if you have to leave the country for work and he remains in Canada. While it will satisfy his obligations toward keeping his 730 days in Canada for PR it will not necessarily satisfy Condition 51, which is what I thought this thread was about ...

 

[canadianwoman]

Yes, if when you leave Canada for work, your husband comes with you and stays with you, this is fine. It will fulfill Condition 51.