Completing RO in Jan 2023; entry via land border?

[Samrao100]

Hello there,
This is Sam (Sriram) age 58, single, citizen of India, PR since 2009, renewed once Jan 2017.

Have been following the discussion thread for a few months, learnt a lot, posting my case first time here.

My PR card expired Jan 19, '22, have been living, working in Vancouver Canada since to complete RO requirements. I last visited India to see my 91 yr old mom & returned just 2 days before expiry of card, was not asked anything at POE. Yes, I should have lived more in Canada in 2020 & '21, but Covid made it difficult for me to do so. So I'm paying the price now, & as I understand, can't leave the country for more than 10 months, until back in Compliance. I have clocked around 423 days, as of today, have proof (passport stamps, dates of travel by Air Canada, Air India in the last 5 years to the exact day, am aware that even if the Van-Del flight takes off at 00.15 hrs past midnight, I will be able to count that as 1 day of Residence!!)

My problem is: and might become more evident in the next few months: leaving my mom alone (w a full time attendant) for such a long time will lead to increased isolation, loneliness, the beginning of dementia, memory loss etc, her mobility itself is limited, not having left the apartment in India for months at a time (but otherwise physically ok) . So ...& this is a slightly different question... my visiting her once, say in October & coming back to Canada via the US land border is feasible ? And the crucial thing is ...will I qualify for a US tourist Visa??? Applying from here in Vancouver? With an Expired PR card?

I also have to mention that I Overstayed in the US till 2009 just until I obtained my Canada PR, but hopefully the 10 year ban & inadmissibility has ended. So also, one doubt is: as in many of the threads here, OPs have been advised not to interact with IRCC until back in Compliance, but maybe that does not apply to me if am applying for a US visa??

 

[scylla]

Hello there,
This is Sam (Sriram) age 58, single, citizen of India, PR since 2009, renewed once Jan 2017.

Have been following the discussion thread for a few months, learnt a lot, posting my case first time here.

My PR card expired Jan 19, '22, have been living, working in Vancouver Canada since to complete RO requirements. I last visited India to see my 91 yr old mom & returned just 2 days before expiry of card, was not asked anything at POE. Yes, I should have lived more in Canada in 2020 & '21, but Covid made it difficult for me to do so. So I'm paying the price now, & as I understand, can't leave the country for more than 10 months, until back in Compliance. I have clocked around 423 days, as of today, have proof (passport stamps, dates of travel by Air Canada, Air India in the last 5 years to the exact day, am aware that even if the Van-Del flight takes off at 00.15 hrs past midnight, I will be able to count that as 1 day of Residence!!)

My problem is: and might become more evident in the next few months: leaving my mom alone (w a full time attendant) for such a long time will lead to increased isolation, loneliness, the beginning of dementia, memory loss etc, her mobility itself is limited, not having left the apartment in India for months at a time (but otherwise physically ok) . So ...& this is a slightly different question... my visiting her once, say in October & coming back to Canada via the US land border is feasible ? And the crucial thing is ...will I qualify for a US tourist Visa??? Applying from here in Vancouver? With an Expired PR card?

I also have to mention that I Overstayed in the US till 2009 just until I obtained my Canada PR, but hopefully the 10 year ban & inadmissibility has ended. So also, one doubt is: as in many of the threads here, OPs have been advised not to interact with IRCC until back in Compliance, but maybe that does not apply to me if am applying for a US visa??

You won't interact with IRCC when you apply for the US visa.

I don't think any of us can tell you if the US visa will be approved or not given your US immigration history. You'll need to apply and see what happens. I would apply asap since it can take a long time to get an interview these days.

Good luck.

 

[Samrao100]

You won't interact with IRCC when you apply for the US visa.

I don't think any of us can tell you if the US visa will be approved or not given your US immigration history. You'll need to apply and see what happens. I would apply asap since it can take a long time to get an interview these days.

Good luck.

Thanks for your quick reply. Will consult others before applying for a US visa. Also, might be relevant to mention: I've kept all Boarding Passes of my travels overseas in the last few years as proof

 

[Tubsmagee]

Being a couple hundred days short on RO certainly places you at risk, particularly if you don’t even have a current PR card when entering the country but that is just a risk you have to determine whether you are willing to take.

 

[scylla]

Thanks for your quick reply. Will consult others before applying for a US visa. Also, might be relevant to mention: I've kept all Boarding Passes of my travels overseas in the last few years as proof

Don't spend too much time on the consulting. If you want to have any chance of making a trip later this year, apply for the US visa asap. Right now interview appointments aren't being booked until 2023. So you'll want to apply as soon as you can and then try to snag an earlier interview date (i.e. this year).

 

[Samrao100]

Being a couple hundred days short on RO certainly places you at risk, particularly if you don’t even have a current PR card when entering the country but that is just a risk you have to determine whether you are willing to take.

Yes, so only to take the risk in extreme circumstances, ie if there is a significant deterioration in my mom's health & from what I've gathered... WITH a valid US visa ...crossing the land border into BC... it seems they'll let me thru (with an expired PR AND out of Compliance)& start Removal proceedings... which'll take time (few months?)...but by which time I'll be back in Compliance...assuming entering US Oct 22 so only 100 days short

 

[Tubsmagee]

Yes, so only to take the risk in extreme circumstances, ie if there is a significant deterioration in my mom's health & from what I've gathered... WITH a valid US visa ...crossing the land border into BC... it seems they'll let me thru (with an expired PR AND out of Compliance)& start Removal proceedings... which'll take time (few months?)...but by which time I'll be back in Compliance...assuming entering US Oct 22 so only 100 days short

I thought time after reporting didn’t count for RO if the appeal wasn’t successful.

 

[Samrao100]

I thought time after reporting didn’t count for RO if the appeal wasn’t successful.

Others more familiar with this aspect in this forum could give clarity; I've not been following such cases in detail

 

[jakklondon]

Yes, so only to take the risk in extreme circumstances, ie if there is a significant deterioration in my mom's health & from what I've gathered... WITH a valid US visa ...crossing the land border into BC... it seems they'll let me thru (with an expired PR AND out of Compliance)& start Removal proceedings... which'll take time (few months?)...but by which time I'll be back in Compliance...assuming entering US Oct 22 so only 100 days short

If you are reported at border, the time you spend in Canada in removal proceedings will not count towards RO. If it did, a lot of reported people would be in compliance by the time IAD reviewed their case.

 

[Samrao100]

If you are reported at border, the time you spend in Canada in removal proceedings will not count towards RO. If it did, a lot of reported people would be in compliance by the time IAD reviewed their case.

So I'm wondering Why someone would go to the extent of entering Canada via US land border (with expired PR card AND not meeting RO); will go through some other posts regarding this particular thread.... but
1) makes sense for someone who's currently living/ working in the US ... w a Green Card or US citizen.. who's also got ties to Canada... but from a 3rd country... not worth the risk... if Reported at Border & time after not not able to count towards RO compliance
2) in my original post, I've mentioned that my PR expired in '14, then applied twice & obtained PRTDs from India betw '14 & '16 & applied for Renewal successfully in '17, having been fully in Compliance because of my stay in 2012 to '14.
3) it seems that if I'm not a US citizen or Green Card holder & am trying to cross the land border with a US Visitor visa AND an expired Canada PR card, chances of my Not being reported are close to less than 1%. Nevertheless I will try to go back & look at other members cases to understand how & why they tried this approach

 

[jakklondon]

So I'm wondering Why someone would go to the extent of entering Canada via US land border (with expired PR card AND not meeting RO); will go through some other posts regarding this particular thread.... but
1) makes sense for someone who's currently living/ working in the US ... w a Green Card or US citizen.. who's also got ties to Canada... but from a 3rd country... not worth the risk... if Reported at Border & time after not not able to count towards RO compliance
2) in my original post, I've mentioned that my PR expired in '14, then applied twice & obtained PRTDs from India betw '14 & '16 & applied for Renewal successfully in '17, having been fully in Compliance because of my stay in 2012 to '14.
3) it seems that if I'm not a US citizen or Green Card holder & am trying to cross the land border with a US Visitor visa AND an expired Canada PR card, chances of my Not being reported are close to less than 1%. Nevertheless I will try to go back & look at other members cases to understand how & why they tried this approach

Here is the answer: they want to try their luck , in hopes that they will not be reported for RO. If you are not US citizen and/or don't have Canadian PR card , your only chance to get into Canada is by land from the US. There is no other way to get there.
If you think I am wrong about the law that doesn't count time spent in Canada after a report of RO breach, then feel free to check it. There is no way the time you spend in Canada after being reported and while waiting for IAD hearing would count towards RO. Imagine how convoluted it would be, considering that a lot of people currently report on this board that it takes two years to get a hearing after being reported at the border. All the IAD would be doing then would be to confirm PR status and everyone would be in perfect compliance by the time of the hearing. This would defeat the purpose of RO.

 

[armoured]

3) it seems that if I'm not a US citizen or Green Card holder & am trying to cross the land border with a US Visitor visa AND an expired Canada PR card, chances of my Not being reported are close to less than 1%.

Where did you get this 1%? Completely made up?

No-one here can tell you what the chances are. But being factually and rather obviously living in Canada, not that far out-of-compliance, and departing to see a dying parent (at least if returning before having stayed abroad for overly long) - well, I would not say your chances are only 1%. Chances of being waved through with nothing more than a verbal warning are probably greater than 1%. (Having some evidence of the sickly parent would strengthen the case...)

In fact, in your case, if you were to return and apply for a PRTD to return, I'd also say the 1% is overly pessimistic. (USA might still be better, don't know)

And in the event you enter through USA, on appeal, the fact of remaining in Canada and having job, life, etc., during the appeal process is generally something that will be given some consideration (perhaps not a lot, but some) - and of course if the appeal is approved, one would then be in compliance and possibly close to citizenship days.

That said, I am NOT counselling optimism - nor anything at all. We can't know. And it's only your decision to make.

By far the safest route (to maintain PR) is to remain in Canada. Others entail some risks. Read other threads to get some idea. In the meantime, you can still apply for US visa.

All IMHO and not expert advice, etc.

 

[Samrao100]

Where did you get this 1%? Completely made up?

No-one here can tell you what the chances are. But being factually and rather obviously living in Canada, not that far out-of-compliance, and departing to see a dying parent (at least if returning before having stayed abroad for overly long) - well, I would not say your chances are only 1%. Chances of being waved through with nothing more than a verbal warning are probably greater than 1%. (Having some evidence of the sickly parent would strengthen the case...)

In fact, in your case, if you were to return and apply for a PRTD to return, I'd also say the 1% is overly pessimistic. (USA might still be better, don't know)

And in the event you enter through USA, on appeal, the fact of remaining in Canada and having job, life, etc., during the appeal process is generally something that will be given some consideration (perhaps not a lot, but some) - and of course if the appeal is approved, one would then be in compliance and possibly close to citizenship days.

That said, I am NOT counselling optimism - nor anything at all. We can't know. And it's only your decision to make.

By far the safest route (to maintain PR) is to remain in Canada. Others entail some risks. Read other threads to get some idea. In the meantime, you can still apply for US visa.

All IMHO and not expert advice, etc.

Yes, the best strategy overwhelmingly is to live the next 10 months until Compliance.
And just having video called & spoken to her 5 minutes ago (& do so daily) ... she is far from a Dying (or even sickly) parent right now ... only the loneliness, possible Dementia aspect to be worried about in the months ahead... but again thats difficult to be able to Document clinically

 

[jakklondon]

Yes, the best strategy overwhelmingly is to live the next 10 months until Compliance.
And just having video called & spoken to her 5 minutes ago (& do so daily) ... she is far from a Dying (or even sickly) parent right now ... only the loneliness, possible Dementia aspect to be worried about in the months ahead... but again thats difficult to be able to Document clinically

I personally think you should be able to go and spend 10 months with your mother, rather than stay in Canada to be in compliance with RO. Part of the problem in the protestant societies (that have roots in northern Europe and Calvinist/Lutheran beliefs) is complete lack of regard and concern for human feelings. It's perceived as a virtue, like being hard on you and tough as life is (like Vercingetorix , who made fun of Romans for riding on saddles, and prided himself for being a harda-s-s, literally, for riding on a bareback horse). But this lack of human concern and feeling actually fractures the society, makes every single individual infinitely removed from another and in the long run leads to chaos and rise in violent and senseless crime (which is a direct outcome of brutal upbringing brought by lack of care by parents and society at large).
It is the same mindset of carelessness that wrote the law which will punish you and take your privilege (PR status) away, if you choose to spend the next 10 month with the person who should be the most dear to you, who gave you your life and spent sleepless nights when you were helpless and weak,

 

[Samrao100]

I personally think you should be able to go and spend 10 months with your mother, rather than stay in Canada to be in compliance with RO. Part of the problem in the protestant societies (that have roots in northern Europe and Calvinist/Lutheran beliefs) is complete lack of regard and concern for human feelings. It's perceived as a virtue, like being hard on you and tough as life is (like Vercingetorix , who made fun of Romans for riding on saddles, and prided himself for being a harda-s-s, literally, for riding on a bareback horse). But this lack of human concern and feeling actually fractures the society, makes every single individual infinitely removed from another and in the long run leads to chaos and rise in violent and senseless crime (which is a direct outcome of brutal upbringing brought by lack of care by parents and society at large).
It is the same mindset of carelessness that wrote the law which will punish you and take your privilege (PR status) away, if you choose to spend the next 10 month with the person who should be the most dear to you, who gave you your life and spent sleepless nights when you were helpless and weak,

Yes, all points noted & appreciated.
However, & this is going into various Philosophical realms ... it's the Western & North American societies which are more forgiving & inclusive...than the East Indian culture which I was born into ...in MY particular situation which I might emphasize... ie a single male, age 58. It is easier for me to socialize with others, in a similar or slightly different situation as me , in Vancouver as compared to even metropolitan cities of India... where I would be viewed with suspicion or " something's Wrong with you" ...still single all these years & increasingly so as I get older & older. So then ...each culture has its merits & demerits...based on who is able to conform or not ...so my maintaining my PR is quite essential...in My Particular situation