Citizenship fraud -- citizenship stripped and ordered to repay court expenses

[on-hold]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/28/blatantly-lying-loses-family-its-citizenship-but-earns-them-a-63k-bill-from-canadian-government/


This is an interesting article -- it's an example of egregious fraud, but it also suggests that the government wants to prevent people from contesting these cases in court. In this case, it's warranted; but I can imagine situations in which there should be a court challenge, and the threat of a bill of this magnitude might discourage that.

 

[screech339]

If you follow the residency qualification for citizenship then you have nothing to worry about.

The court cost only discourage those that want to apply for citizenship when they didn't even make meet the requirements even for a day short. It will help encourage those to follow the rules and even encourage those to give themselves more than just the bare minimum 1095 days to avoid potential problems.

Want to avoid problems with meeting residency requirement? How about applying when you have a lot more than 1095 days. Your application would probably go a lot smoother and trouble free when you got 1200 to 1460 days under the belt as compare to bare minimum 1095 days.

Screech339

 

[u4g5]

theres a simple solution that the government refused to do for MANY MANY YEARS!
EXIT CONTROL! if they stamp passport on everyone who is leaving the country then u dont need each applicant to submit tons documents to support their claim that they have lived in this country.
the Government creates the loophole themself

 

[pie_vancouver]

Quick question: does UAE stamp the passport when you enter?

 

[screech339]

I completely agree. Canada should have exit controls. Keep track of everyone leaving and entering Canada: Canadians, PR's, and foreign nationals.

Canada should not have to have depend on foreign country to determine who left Canada. That is squarely Canada's job.

Screech339

 

[on-hold]

If you follow the residency qualification for citizenship then you have nothing to worry about.

The court cost only discourage those that want to apply for citizenship when they didn't even make meet the requirements even for a day short. It will help encourage those to follow the rules and even encourage those to give themselves more than just the bare minimum 1095 days to avoid potential problems.

Want to avoid problems with meeting residency requirement? How about applying when you have a lot more than 1095 days. Your application would probably go a lot smoother and trouble free when you got 1200 to 1460 days under the belt as compare to bare minimum 1095 days.

Screech339

No, I completely agree -- but just by the nature of life and the law, there are bound to be cases that ARE ambiguous; just looking at this forum shows that. For myself, I would say that cost recovery should only be applied in cases of blatant fraud, not error or ambiguity. Let me think and see if I can come up with an example of what I mean.

 

[CanV]

You all wanna fund exit control from your own checking and saving accounts? Then I am fine with it.

 

[skwan]

so, why DOESN'T Canada have exit control......?
Oh Canada......and no I'm not singing the national anthem hahaha, it's just to say, our country can get some things right but the smallest things they cannot get right

 

[Matt the Aussie]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/28/blatantly-lying-loses-family-its-citizenship-but-earns-them-a-63k-bill-from-canadian-government/

Disgusting. How can these people justify lying like that on legal documents? How can you justify APPEALING the original decision on top of that?!

 

[Pureminded]

Quick question: does UAE stamp the passport when you enter?

Yes both on entry/exit.

 

[CanV]

Yes both on entry/exit.

Not true. You can enter and exit UAE with no stamps.

 

[on-hold]

Disgusting. How can these people justify lying like that on legal documents? How can you justify APPEALING the original decision on top of that?!

I know, that's the thing -- most people cheat on something or other, I'm not condemning that out of hand (though this one seems a bit excessive) . . . but the corollary of that is when you get caught you should shut up, take your lumps, and go quietly . . . I wonder if there is case law or something that suggests they might have had a chance with this appeal? Talk about entitled . . .

 

[on-hold]

So, I said above that there are probably cases where there could be fraud on a citizenship application, but it would not be just to have a penalty that might discourage an appeal. It's not too easy to think of examples of this, but here are a few attempts:

- the applicant was suffering from an untreated mental illness at the time they applied

- the applicant technically committed the fraud by signing the document, but for whatever reason were under the control of someone else; aged to the point of not being completely responsible, or a spouse who speaks no English and doesn't know the requirements and puts everything in the hands of their partner

But yeah, you really have to imagine highly particular situations -- your garden-variety "I was here for this year when I was actually in Silicon Valley" case should pay for any appeals.

 

[Matt the Aussie]

So, I said above that there are probably cases where there could be fraud on a citizenship application, but it would not be just to have a penalty that might discourage an appeal. It's not too easy to think of examples of this, but here are a few attempts:

- the applicant was suffering from an untreated mental illness at the time they applied

- the applicant technically committed the fraud by signing the document, but for whatever reason were under the control of someone else; aged to the point of not being completely responsible, or a spouse who speaks no English and doesn't know the requirements and puts everything in the hands of their partner

But yeah, you really have to imagine highly particular situations -- your garden-variety "I was here for this year when I was actually in Silicon Valley" case should pay for any appeals.

Totally agree with your comments here. I would hope paying legal costs is reserved for cases such as this. It's hard to see how this particular appeal was not in bad faith.

 

[screech339]

So, I said above that there are probably cases where there could be fraud on a citizenship application, but it would not be just to have a penalty that might discourage an appeal. It's not too easy to think of examples of this, but here are a few attempts:

- the applicant was suffering from an untreated mental illness at the time they applied

- the applicant technically committed the fraud by signing the document, but for whatever reason were under the control of someone else; aged to the point of not being completely responsible, or a spouse who speaks no English and doesn't know the requirements and puts everything in the hands of their partner

But yeah, you really have to imagine highly particular situations -- your garden-variety "I was here for this year when I was actually in Silicon Valley" case should pay for any appeals.

The examples you listed falls in a very very minority of cases which warrants that the court cost should not be given.

However funny that you mentioned not being able to speak english / french as one of the examples. While those outside the age group requirement that does not require language / citizenship test, how does one recite the oath if they cannot speak the language.

I suppose one could try to memorize to speak the oath. Remember they don't want you to lip-sync your mouth while everyone recites theirs.