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citizenship by convenience

screech339

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Apr 2, 2013
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MasterGeek said:
In conformance with the laws of nature, I take the path of least resistance 8)
Canadians of Convenience usually takes the least resistance to get citizenship. Had we tightened up citizenship that is higher than Europeans citizenship qualifications, Canada wouldn't have to worry about Canadian of Convenience very much. There would then be "British of Convenience" or "French of Convenience" or any country that has lower citizenship requirements than Canada.
 

Politren

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Jan 16, 2015
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screech339 said:
Canadians of Convenience usually takes the least resistance to get citizenship. Had we tightened up citizenship that is higher than Europeans citizenship qualifications, Canada wouldn't have to worry about Canadian of Convenience very much. There would then be "British of Convenience" or "French of Convenience" or any country that has lower citizenship requirements than Canada.
The Conservatives made Canada the only developed country where someone can become a citizen by "proving" presence in a RQ.

Thank you Harper.
 

torontosm

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Apr 3, 2013
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Politren said:
The Conservatives made Canada the only developed country where someone can become a citizen by "proving" presence in a RQ.

Thank you Harper.
While the Liberals had Canada as the only developed county where someone can become a citizen by just saying they lived there and without providing a single shred of documentary evidence.

Thanks Chretian and Martin!
 

Politren

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Jan 16, 2015
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torontosm said:
While the Liberals had Canada as the only developed county where someone can become a citizen by just saying they lived there and without providing a single shred of documentary evidence.

Thanks Chretian and Martin!
Providing fake documents from a well known list (RQ) in advance is pretty much the same as providing no documents. In both situations the person have been all the time abroad. The verdict is again citizenship granted, because as per the "evaluation" of these "documents" the applicant "proves" that he/she have been all the time in Canada.
 

paw339

Star Member
May 28, 2014
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The only reason why "citizens of convenience" is an issue is because its so easy and takes so little time to become a Canadian citizen. If the Citizenship time period was more like the 10 years Switzerland requires it wouldn't be an issue.
 

Politren

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Jan 16, 2015
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paw339 said:
The only reason why "citizens of convenience" is an issue is because its so easy and takes so little time to become a Canadian citizen. If the Citizenship time period was more like the 10 years Switzerland requires it wouldn't be an issue.
Someone can live abroad and use the RQs to "prove" that he/she was here. It just can't be easier than that.
 

links18

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Feb 1, 2006
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screech339 said:
Canadians of Convenience usually takes the least resistance to get citizenship. Had we tightened up citizenship that is higher than Europeans citizenship qualifications, Canada wouldn't have to worry about Canadian of Convenience very much. There would then be "British of Convenience" or "French of Convenience" or any country that has lower citizenship requirements than Canada.
Canadian citizenship rules are what they are for a reason. If Canada--one of the coldest countries on the planet--is going to compete for skilled immigrants with other first world countries, it has to offer them something attractive, because it sure ain't the weather.... :p
 

torontosm

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Apr 3, 2013
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links18 said:
Canadian citizenship rules are what they are for a reason. If Canada--one of the coldest countries on the planet--is going to compete for skilled immigrants with other first world countries, it has to offer them something attractive, because it sure ain't the weather.... :p
I'm curious to see if there was indeed a drop in the number of applications last year when the citizenship residency period was increased to 4 years. Given that we are accepting a record number of immigrants this year, I doubt it, but i haven't seen the exact numbers. If there wasn't, then there is obviously no need to bend over backwards to attract people as people just want to come here anyway.
 

torontosm

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Apr 3, 2013
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Politren said:
Providing fake documents from a well known list (RQ) in advance is pretty much the same as providing no documents.

Really? You think that producing a large number of fake documents is as easy as writing a falsified address on a form? You seem to be arguing for no reason other than your evident hatred of the Cons.
 

Politren

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Jan 16, 2015
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torontosm said:
Really? You think that producing a large number of fake documents is as easy as writing a falsified address on a form? You seem to be arguing for no reason other than your evident hatred of the Cons.
The fake docs can be ordered from Asian networks for about 500$. It seems that you are not aware about how the RQs are made to work out.
 

Politren

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Jan 16, 2015
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torontosm said:
I'm curious to see if there was indeed a drop in the number of applications last year when the citizenship residency period was increased to 4 years. Given that we are accepting a record number of immigrants this year, I doubt it, but i haven't seen the exact numbers. If there wasn't, then there is obviously no need to bend over backwards to attract people as people just want to come here anyway.
I guess that links18 was referring about the competition for the top immigrants from the world, because of course that all the time people from the 3rd world will love to come here.

But how likely is a top immigrant to choose Canada if at the same time he/she has an option to live in US or EU for example.
 

screech339

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Apr 2, 2013
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Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
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AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
Politren said:
I guess that links18 was referring about the competition for the top immigrants from the world, because of course that all the time people from the 3rd world will love to come here.

But how likely is a top immigrant to choose Canada if at the same time he/she has an option to live in US or EU for example.
Most immigrants want to move to a country that offer quickest employment, fast work visa turn around so they can start working. After all they have bills to pay, (ie university bills) nothing to do with which country offers the quickest to citizenship.

If Australia offers a work visa that allow immigrants to work before Canada can offer them a work visa, naturally the immigrant will choose Australia. Nothing to do with citizenship being a factor. If Canada wants to complete for talents, Canada has to offer a faster route to work visa.

Say Canada had a 10 year qualifcation for citizenship but able to give work visa in 1 month time, you can bet your arse, that the immigrant will choose Canada on account of being able to work after graduation. People would flock to Canada if they can start work before any other countries.
 

Politren

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screech339 said:
Most immigrants want to move to a country that offer quickest employment, fast work visa turn around so they can start working. After all they have bills to pay, (ie university bills) nothing to do with which country offers the quickest to citizenship.

If Australia offers a work visa that allow immigrants to work before Canada can offer them a work visa, naturally the immigrant will choose Australia. Nothing to do with citizenship being a factor. If Canada wants to complete for talents, Canada has to offer a faster route to work visa.

Say Canada had a 10 year qualifcation for citizenship but able to give work visa in 1 month time, you can bet your arse, that the immigrant will choose Canada on account of being able to work after graduation. People would flock to Canada if they can start work before any other countries.
Perfect I guess this is why the "Canadians of convenience" born here or abroad would love NOT to continue work and live in Canada. All of them have the full unlimited perks to work and live here but they just don't want to. Anyway Canada can always rely on another batch of new 3rd world immigrants.
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
Politren said:
Perfect I guess this is why the "Canadians of convenience" born here or abroad would love NOT to continue work and live in Canada. All of them have the full unlimited perks to work and live here but they just don't want to. Anyway Canada can always rely on another batch of new 3rd world immigrants.
Why do you think the conservatives offer work visa express. This was made to compete with other countries who offer work visas faster. One of the main complaints from immigrants while they would love to come to Canada, slow work visa processing time, made them choose elsewhere. The work express visa was introduced to compete for talents.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Much of the discussion above conflates the acquisition of Canadian citizenship with the behavior of Canadian citizens. It is reminiscent of the red herring arguments regarding the intent-to-continue-to-reside-in-Canada provision added by Bill C-24.

Much of the confusion and distraction is indeed rooted in Conservative rhetoric; they never have tended to be particularly competent wordsmiths.

In any event, there is, of course, no formal definition or category of "Citizenship-of-Convenience." This is not a legal classification.

The term itself is more or less a rhetorical characterization (primarily employed by Harper-era Conservatives) intended to suggest insincere if not overtly exploitative intent in the acquisition of Canadian citizenship.

It is less about Canadian citizens going abroad to live (many tens of thousands live in the U.S., and tens of thousands more live in Mexico, and tens of thousands of others live in various countries throughout the world, and the CoC label is not about them) and more about those who immigrate to Canada and stay just long enough to qualify (or fake qualifying) for and obtain citizenship, with no intent to actually become in fact Canadian citizens.

That is, the term is about those who pursue acquisition of Canadian citizenship not for the purpose of being Canadian citizens, but for this or that advantage which comes from being a Canadian citizen. (A Canadian passport, and how much easier that makes international travel, being perhaps the most commonly sought-after advantage; with access to the U.S., especially more lucrative employment opportunities in the U.S., perhaps the second-most sought-after advantage.)

Thus, obviously those who are born a Canadian citizen are not among those who would be described as acquiring Canadian citizenship as a Citizenship-of-Convenience. They are Canadian citizens when born, with no intent to exploit the system (babies are always innocent, beautifully innocent). And this is true for those born in Canada, and for those otherwise born abroad but a Canadian citizen by descent.

In contrast, for example, consider a marriage-of-convenience: it is about why and how the couple entered into the marriage relationship. A marriage does not later, after it has been entered into, become a marriage-of-convenience (well, it might, the example of Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton comes to mind). This characterization typically arises, at least in the context of Canadian immigration, regarding a marriage entered into not because the couple are in love and want to establish a life and perhaps a family together, but so that one partner might qualify to sponsor the other partner for Canadian Permanent Residence. Indeed, a marriage entered into for the purpose of facilitating a Foreign National to obtain status in Canada is defined to be a marriage-of-convenience.

Not particularly complicated.

The provision in Bill C-24 which introduced the Intent-to-continue-to-reside-in-Canada requirement was specifically intended to preclude (to the extent practical) granting citizenship to those who approached Canadian citizenship like earning a graduate degree: meet the minimum requirements, qualify, and then get the status, for the purpose of having the benefits of Canadian citizenship rather than actually becoming, in fact, a citizen of Canada.

The extent to which this is a real problem undermining the Canadian immigration system is debatable. Perhaps the number is large enough to actually undermine the system. Perhaps it is merely incidental. Obviously many Conservatives are of the former view, that the number is large and undermines the integrity and objectives of Canada's immigration system.

On the other hand, there are some who are simply offended by the prospect of the advantage being taken by those who are affluent in third world countries, those who are in a position to more easily obtain immigration to Canada and stay long enough to qualify for citizenship. A path largely unavailable to those not born to affluence in the third world. In the cosmic sense of things of course the advantage of the affluent is not fair. But then neither is the advantage enjoyed by those of us born in North America or Western Europe.

I understand why Canadian authorities are reluctant to facilitate the path to citizenship for those with no intent to actually become Canadian citizens. I doubt this is a serious problem so long as actual fraud is not being perpetrated (it was too easy, not all that long ago, for some to not even really live in Canada and on paper qualify for and obtain Canadian citizenship).

Whether or not the Senate will take up the debate about requiring an intent-to-continue-to-reside-in-Canada (which Bill C-6 proposes to remove) I cannot guess.

In the meantime is quite possible that Bill C-6 will not be stalled by the Senate and reach the Third Reading, even Royal Assent, before the summer recess. However, I would not count on that happening.

Overall, regarding the so-called Citizenship-of-Convenience, for those who are concerned there is a significant enough of a problem to warrant measures aimed at precluding or at least discouraging this, that is about the process of granting citizenship, about what is required (or should be required) in qualifying for and becoming a Naturalized citizen.

CoC has nothing to do with what Canadian citizens do AFTER they are a citizen. It is about why and how some have acquired Canadian citizenship.

Indeed, the Charter explicitly protects the right of citizens, no matter how citizenship was acquired, to leave Canada without being penalized. This does not, however, restrict the government from imposing residency requirements for certain government benefits. And indeed many benefits available to Canadians are specifically conditioned on meeting residency or presence requirements.