citizenship by convenience

[screech339]

For those that claim, there is no legal definition of "CoC", there is no legal definition of "anchor babies" and yet we hear it all the time. Same goes for "birth tourism". We all know what's the meaning of "anchor babies" and "birth tourism" is, including "CoC".

 

[Politren]

For those that claim, there is no legal definition of "CoC", there is no legal definition of "anchor babies" and yet we hear it all the time. Same goes for "birth tourism". We all know what's the meaning of "anchor babies" and "birth tourism" is, including "CoC".

The meaning for CoC as you can see here , everyone has it's own personal understandings. For you is about intentions ... How can it be proven that a CoC is a CoC???

 

[alok4best]

The meaning for CoC as you can see here , everyone has it's own personal understandings. For you is about intentions ... How can it be proven that a CoC is a CoC???

It's one of those things you know exist, you can see it happening occasionally, yet you can't define it in writing or do anything to prevent it.

 

[screech339]

It's one of those things you know exist, you can see it happening occasionally, yet you can't define it in writing or do anything to prevent it.

Just like the term "selfie". That was never a legal definition until everyone started using it. We know it exist, we see it all the time (ie Trudeau "selfies") until webster added it to their dictionary because it was commonly said.

 

[mwabu1976]

It is so simple ..

I don't think that someone that loves Canada and welling to give his life for Canada a CoC even if he live outside Canada.
It is all about loving this country and being loyal to it.

I noticed sometimes when I used to see soccer matches for Canada against other countries that even the match is played in Canada but the majority of the people watching the match are supporting the other country playing against Canada. I just dont understand this, they come to support their origin country? why not to support Canada too in the same time? it is ok to be loyal to your country of origin but Canada deserve the same level of loyalty.

What Canada needs is a citizens that are loyal to this country. Loyalty will not come from the word intend in bill c-24 or if people are in Canada or out, or because immigrants have to live in Canada for 3 or 4 years to get citizenship. Loyalty comes from understanding what is Canada and loving it for wat it is. People who truly love this country will not hurt it. They will try to build it and work for its good.

I saw many people who really I would consider them CoC talking about Canada in negative way and considering their origin country life better and more loyal to their origin country. I used to tell them simply "then give up on your passport, Canada does not need you.."

Anyway, I admit that it is hard if not impossible to determine the loyalty to Canada for new (or even old and born) citizens.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

There's no such thing as citizenship of convenience.

If someone becomes a Canadian citizen and then leaves Canada (whether a few days or a year or 10 years after becoming a citizen), he/she will:

1. Have to turn in OHIP or equivalent in other provinces (not entitled to use public healthcare)
2. Report his non-resident status to the CRA

If he/she then returns, then these are the scenarios:

1. He/she returns with his/her family and are low, working, or middle-class individuals: Then they will need to have a job especially in expensive cities like Toronto and Vancouver; they won't come back if they didn't secure a job. This means they will pay income tax and tax on whatever savings they have. As taxpaying citizens they will be entitled to use OHIP, send their children to public schools (or borrow etc if they want to go private). This cannot be objectionable to anyone even some of the elements in this forum.

2. He/she returns with his/her family and are upper middle-class or upper class individuals: Then they are reasonably well-off that they won't leech off the system. Such people are more likely to send their children to private schools, to top universities rather than Canadian ones, and wouldn't need torontosm or the other person's money. Eventually, they will have to supplement their income either through starting their own business or finding a job.

Any which way you look at it, nobody will just leave Canada for no reason after getting citizenship, stay overseas, and then come back merely to leech off the system: they will need to have income to pay for university. As for healthcare and education, they will have to either be very rich or have a job or business that generates income in order to keep living here, especially with everything becoming more expensive each and every year.

There's no scenario in which a family would just come in to leech off resident taxpayers, and given how tough the CRA is, they can't even lie about their residency status when they're back as they'll need to get their OHIP cards back if in Ontario and need to prove their status everytime they apply for any public services. Feel sorry for the nutters on the opposite side of the debate.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

What Canada needs is a citizens that are loyal to this country. Loyalty will not come from the word intend in bill c-24 or if people are in Canada or out, or because immigrants have to live in Canada for 3 or 4 years to get citizenship. Loyalty comes from understanding what is Canada and loving it for wat it is. People who truly love this country will not hurt it. They will try to build it and work for its good.

I saw many people who really I would consider them CoC talking about Canada in negative way and considering their origin country life better and more loyal to their origin country. I used to tell them simply "then give up on your passport, Canada does not need you.."

Anyway, I admit that it is hard if not impossible to determine the loyalty to Canada for new (or even old and born) citizens.

That's true but different from what's being discussed here. It's true that c-24 won't magically make citizens more loyal or loving of Canada (in fact maybe the opposite). I agree that they shouldn't talk about Canada in a very hostile way if they are citizens- makes no sense, but this comes with time and citizenship education. Plus, some 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants (especially from many muslim countries) have this very same problem so it's not only 1st generation immigrants.

 

[Politren]

another very funny fact is that those supporting the CoC idea simply ignore the fact , that by keeping all those so called CoC here, they actually harm Canada much more.

Exactly those who stay here are the actual much bigger problem.

 

[screech339]

another very funny fact is that those supporting the CoC idea simply ignore the fact , that by keeping all those so called CoC here, they actually harm Canada much more.

Exactly those who stay here are the actual much bigger problem.

Not sure how you qualify those staying and living in Canada "CoC"s.

 

[alok4best]

Not sure how you qualify those staying and living in Canada "CoC"s.

They are referring to the example cited here:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/citizenship-by-convenience-t413491.0.html;msg5173857#msg5173857

 

[screech339]

They are referring to the example cited here:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/citizenship-by-convenience-t413491.0.html;msg5173857#msg5173857

They are not CoC's. They are criminals committing fraud by not declaring all their income, gaming the system to get benefits they are not entitled to.

 

[Politren]

Not sure how you qualify those staying and living in Canada "CoC"s.

They use the all the benefits here without paying the whole sum back simply because they are poor. Long term burden for the economy. torontosm knows very well how many moms stays here with their children to leach big time while her husband is working abroad. Make a rough calculation how much money a mom with 3~5 kids take from the system for free. And by the way they got no intention to leave Canada they are living here for the benefits.

How would you call them?

 

[surgi]

For those that claim, there is no legal definition of "CoC", there is no legal definition of "anchor babies" and yet we hear it all the time. Same goes for "birth tourism". We all know what's the meaning of "anchor babies" and "birth tourism" is, including "CoC".

we do not care about defining terms which do not lead to law changes. CoC lead to create a law called strengthening citizenship without defining the term,that is the problem.

 

[Politren]

Can you guys please help me finding those moms? I am running out soon. Those women misses their husband.

Ask torontosm I think he was referring about Mississauga, they are busy leaching the system with their big families , the convenience to be living in Canada

 

[surgi]

Loyalty will not come from the word intend in bill c-24 or if people are in Canada or out, or because immigrants have to live in Canada for 3 or 4 years to get citizenship. Loyalty comes from understanding what is Canada and loving it for wat it is. People who truly love this country will not hurt it. They will try to build it and work for its good.


Anyway, I admit that it is hard if not impossible to determine the loyalty to Canada for new (or even old and born) citizens.

loyalty will come if the government works hard on the integration of newcomers in the job market in their original profession. It will come if they work to end discrimination everywhere where some people even the aboriginal suffer from it. It will come if the society helps the newcomers self esteem is considered when dealing with them. Also will come when serious measures to those who abuse the system are taken as they disfigure other immigrants.