citizenship by convenience

[torontosm]

1. Your scenario 1 is healthcare fraud and having known so many people who work both in Service Ontario and hospitals the fraud detection rates are actually quite high. Plus even if they are temporarily resident they will still have to wait months for the heart by-pass surgery, during which they will need to finance themselves. It's not like they come monday and the surgery is on tuesday.

As Screech mentioned, they could return to AB, live there for 6 months during recovery and by doing so, not commit healthcare fraud at all. This would be perfectly legal.

Also, I have seen cases where emergency surgery has been scheduled within 12 hours of the patient being diagnosed. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

2. Once again you don't get it: if the children come for schooling/university they'll stay here for years, and children can't finance themselves they need their families (at least 1 parent) to come back and support them. This parent will either need a job or is rich enough not to care about leeching off some Pakistani bigot on this forum.

You have a horrible habit of letting your imagination run wild where you envision parents coming back to Canada, working , etc. Why can't the parents continue to work overseas to finance the kids' educations?

3. Scenario 3 only happened once in 2006, and there's a simple solution to it: don't make it the responsibility of the state to evacuate people. Since these people knew that Lebanon is already a war zone they went back knowing the risk. That's not such a big deal and other developed countries do that as well.

So your point is that becuase it has already happened, it can never happen again? "These people" as you refer to them volutarily left canada to move to a war zone, and didn't even think about canada until they needed something. Once they got what the needed, they happily returned to their war zone and will likely not think about Canada until they need to be saved again.

This cost taxpayers over $90 million. Imagine if those funds could have been used towards schools, hospitals, etc. to improve the lives of Canadians. Wouldn't that have been a better use of the money?

1 and 2 simply don't apply and 3 is hardly the biggest issue in the world. But to bigots like you they are the be-all and end-all.

So, you accuse me of being bigot because I disagree with you. But the fact that you disagree with me equally vehemently makes you equally bigoted. Yes another example of you being a hypocrite.

 

[alok4best]

As told before, sponsored parents / grandparents are a burden on health care. At least we have a way to control that. By either killing the pgp program all together or putting a cap on pgp application.

Killing the program may make Canada "cold" and "heartless". But keeping a small cap on pgp, it allows Canada to be compassionate. Remember PGP is based on compassion.

How about Canada increasing PGP quotas, thus allowing more immigrant families to be together, but asking the sponsor to foot the bill in case their parents/grand parents need medical assistance. May be even mandating sponsors to buy a private health insurance for the parents before sponsorship is approved. This way Canada is more compassionate, and there is lesser burden on tax payers.

 

[Politren]

This cost taxpayers over $90 million. Imagine if those funds could have been used towards schools, hospitals, etc. to improve the lives of Canadians. Wouldn't that have been a better use of the money?

What about focusing on the main problem that Canada has expenses measured in many BILIONS to all those who are living here and not being able to pay their bills.

How much BILIONS cost the immigrants living here? You mentioned the number few weeks back.

So imagine what will happen if Canada invested ALL THOSE BILIONS in good projects instead being wasted supporting all the huge mass burden who lives here.

 

[Politren]

How about Canada increasing PGP quotas, thus allowing more immigrant families to be together, but asking the sponsor to foot the bill in case their parents/grand parents need medical assistance. May be even mandating sponsors to buy a private health insurance for the parents before sponsorship is approved. This way Canada is more compassionate, and there is lesser burden on tax payers.

There is a temporary agreement that the kid should take care for supporting the sponsored ones at the beginning, but once that agreement expires the PGP can abuse the health care as much as they want.

Supporting a refugee is also a huge overall burden for Canada

 

[torontosm]

What about focusing on the main problem that Canada has expenses measured in many BILIONS to all those who are living here and not being able to pay their bills.

How much BILIONS cost the immigrants living here? You mentioned the number few weeks back.

So imagine what will happen if Canada invested ALL THOSE BILIONS in good projects instead being wasted supporting all the huge mass burden who lives here.

You keep bringing this point up, but have yet to offer a single solution. Yes, there are PR's like yourself who are struggling in Canada. But what do you suggest the government should do? Give you immediate citizenship so that you can leave the country? That makes no sense at all. Instead, I would suggest that the government stop immigration until the job market recovers and there are sufficient employment opportunities for the 300,000+ people coming in each year.

 

[alok4best]

There is a temporary agreement that the kid should take care for supporting the sponsored ones at the beginning, but once that agreement expires the PGP can abuse the health care as much as they want.

Supporting a refugee is also a huge overall burden for Canada

Yes, indeed. A country cannot help with the quality of people born there.
But it can certainly help with the quality of people it imports.
I understand that refugees have come on humanitarian grounds,which is fine.
But they should be trained asap in a way that they become contributors to the economy.
Same goes for other streams of immigration.
And I totally understand the point you raise of people who are here already and are willingly leeching of the system.
This is all part of the same wider problem.

And as far as PGPs are concerned, my view is that there should be more quota.
The current application backlog is 4-5 years, which is ridiculous.

However, PGPs themselves or their sponsors should take care of healthcare bills, not only for initial years, but on permanent basis.

 

[Politren]

You keep bringing this point up, but have yet to offer a single solution. Yes, there are PR's like yourself who are struggling in Canada. But what do you suggest the government should do? Give you immediate citizenship so that you can leave the country? That makes no sense at all. Instead, I would suggest that the government stop immigration until the job market recovers and there are sufficient employment opportunities for the 300,000+ people coming in each year.

Yes I keep on bringing it because this is burden for Canada WAY BIGGER compared to CoC. We are talking about BILIONS of dollars burden for Canada each and every year. And we expect another massive flush of new heads on a constant basis. I am really feeling sorry for the Canadian budget.

 

[screech339]

Yes, indeed. A country cannot help with the quality of people born there.
But it can certainly help with the quality of people it imports.
I understand that refugees have come on humanitarian grounds,which is fine.
But they should be trained asap in a way that they become contributors to the economy.
Same goes for other streams of immigration.
And I totally understand the point you raise of people who are here already and are willingly leeching of the system.
This is all part of the same wider problem.

And as far as PGPs are concerned, my view is that there should be more quota.
The current application backlog is 4-5 years, which is ridiculous.

However, PGPs themselves or their sponsors should take care of healthcare bills, not only for initial years, but on permanent basis.

The current PGP backlog was due to no cap on pgp in the first place. People were waiting 5 to 10 years plus to get PR under the program. This is due to applications coming in more than CIC can handle. This is why there was a freeze and a cap placed on it. It would allow CIC a chance to "catch up" and remove the backlog. Increasing PGP would defeat the purpose as it would add more backlog.

 

[Politren]

The current PGP backlog was due to no cap on pgp in the first place. People were waiting 5 to 10 years plus to get PR under the program. This is due to applications coming in more than CIC can handle. This is why there was a freeze and a cap placed on it. It would allow CIC a chance to "catch up" and remove the backlog. Increasing PGP would defeat the purpose as it would add more backlog.

And while these PGP are waiting they are getting older and older so the chances for them to end up directly on the health care system is very good.

The whole immigration system is soooo problematic and in general only hurts Canada.

 

[McClane]

Yes I keep on bringing it because this is burden for Canada WAY BIGGER compared to CoC. We are talking about BILIONS of dollars burden for Canada each and every year. And we expect another massive flush of new heads on a constant basis. I am really feeling sorry for the Canadian budget.

Is it not possible for two issues to co-exist? Why would the one you mention somehow invalidate discussions about the so-called CoC?

 

[alok4best]

The current PGP backlog was due to no cap on pgp in the first place. People were waiting 5 to 10 years plus to get PR under the program. This is due to applications coming in more than CIC can handle. This is why there was a freeze and a cap placed on it. It would allow CIC a chance to "catch up" and remove the backlog. Increasing PGP would defeat the purpose as it would add more backlog.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought it was due to the affordability. i.e. how many non tax paying seniors Canada can afford to have, considering healthcare expenses.

 

[alok4best]

And while these PGP are waiting they are getting older and older so the chances for them to end up directly on the health care system is very good.

The whole immigration system is soooo problematic and in general only hurts Canada.

Exactly. More reasons why sponsors should be asked to pay for PGP healthcare.

 

[Politren]

Is it not possible for two issues to co-exist? Why would the one you mention somehow invalidate discussions about the so-called CoC?

The scope and the harm from CoC is miniscule compared to all that massive burden who actually lives here. This is my point. I also represent that burden by working at the low end, many hundreds of thousants are living here causing BILIONS of damage for the budget each and every year.

Focusing only on CoC is like being penny wise but dollar foolish.

The people who live here and can't pay the taxes for the services they are using everyday are the massive problem for the budget.

 

[screech339]

Exactly. More reasons why sponsors should be asked to pay for PGP healthcare.

Sponsors do not pay for parents/grandparents medical cost. Sponsors are only responsible for social assistance of their parents/grandparents. In other words, make sure they cannot collect welfare for 20 years. This doesn't stop parents/grandparents from accessing free medical care. This is why supervisa was introduced. It would allow parents/grandparents to stay 2 years at a time and they won't have any medical burden on taxpayers as they are paying for medical insurance themselves.

 

[alok4best]

Sponsors do not pay for parents/grandparents medical cost. Sponsors are only responsible for social assistance of their parents/grandparents. In other words, make sure they cannot collect welfare for 20 years. This doesn't stop parents/grandparents from accessing free medical care. This is why supervisa was introduced. It would allow parents/grandparents to stay 2 years at a time and they won't have any medical burden on taxpayers as they are paying for medical insurance themselves.

I know that. I am merely suggesting that PGPs should not get free healthcare because they probably arrived only after retirement and did not essentially contribute to social security.