CIC incompetent

[nmclean]

I've now read hundreds of cases on CANLII. I feel like there would be 0 impact on Canada if even ALL those truly non-genuine spouses got into Canada. Sure there are some real scam artists out there. But what's the harm in letting the spouse into Canada after a background/medical check instead of making them wait years? Are they that fearful of a few bad apples escaping into the country? If they are that desperate to get to Canada maybe they will actually benefit our society.

Isn't this how inland sponsorship is supposed to work? Apparently, they're not afraid of bad apples living and working on an OWP for potentially over a year before they may be denied.

 

[Sous02]

Maybe incompetent is not the right word although I am sure there are some incompetent workers at CIC just like anywhere else. It is the process that is crazy. Somewhere along the line the opportunity for TRV's need to become available. A file that is complete and straightforward should go very quickly. If they can take a chance with a refugee so quickly I am sure they can bring the current process time down.

 

[acfajardo]

Honestly, this was my first thought when we started the sponsorship process. Back in November 2015 when we submitted, the processing time in the website was 17 months. It's tough and it's easy to get emotional after being away from my partner for so long but as months passed by, I realized how tough the jobs of visa officers are. By doing some research, I discovered why the processing takes that long. For example, in the Manila VO, the most recent statistics in 2015 showed that roughly around 50,000 were granted PRs from the Philippines. Averaging that figure into 12 months, it appears that more than 4,200 Filipinos receive their immigrant visas every month. Now we'll never know how many visa officers are working in the vo but if we estimate 100, it'll show that an officer may be processing around 40 applications per month from the Philippines alone. Keep in mind that the Manila VO is also responsible for processing pr applications from Japan, Korea and 13 more countries. Monthly, your visa officer could be handling thousands of applications. When I discovered this, I came to an understanding that there really isn't much I can do but be patient. It's really hard to be away from my spouse. We've been long distance for almost 4 years now, but I know our time will come soon.

 

[ImABule]

Honestly, this was my first thought when we started the sponsorship process. Back in November 2015 when we submitted, the processing time in the website was 17 months. It's tough and it's easy to get emotional after being away from my partner for so long but as months passed by, I realized how tough the jobs of visa officers are. By doing some research, I discovered why the processing takes that long. For example, in the Manila VO, the most recent statistics in 2015 showed that roughly around 50,000 were granted PRs from the Philippines. Averaging that figure into 12 months, it appears that more than 4,200 Filipinos receive their immigrant visas every month. Now we'll never know how many visa officers are working in the vo but if we estimate 100, it'll show that an officer may be processing around 40 applications per month from the Philippines alone. Keep in mind that the Manila VO is also responsible for processing pr applications from Japan, Korea and 13 more countries. Monthly, your visa officer could be handling thousands of applications. When I discovered this, I came to an understanding that there really isn't much I can do but be patient. It's really hard to be away from my spouse. We've been long distance for almost 4 years now, but I know our time will come soon.

Keep in mind that the VO will have designated officers to process family class, economic class etc. so your numbers are a bit inflated, though I do get your point.

 

[acfajardo]

Keep in mind that the VO will have designated officers to process family class, economic class etc. so your numbers are a bit inflated, though I do get your point.

Agreed. Of course there are designated officers that process the various classes. The figures I presented are just to give applicants of the same vo a rough picture of a visa officer's workload.

To give better idea on the situation, Global Affairs Canada reported in 2012 that the Manila VO is composed of 1 Head of Mission, 33 Canada based Staff and 135 Locally Engaged Staff. Out of the 33 CBS and the 135 LES, only 17 CBS and 77 LES work for the visa and immigration program. Now that was 4 years ago. By now with the increasing number of applicants every year in all classes, I'm pretty sure that these numbers have also increased. Still even if we double the numbers, as you've mentioned, they will have respective designations.

MVO is responsible for PR applications including Self-Employed, Start-up, Quebec select skilled workers, provincial nominee programs and family sponsorships. Apart from that, they also process temporary resident visa applications such as visitor, student, temporary worker visas. So if you have 34 CBS and 154 LES (doubling the previous figures) working under the visa and immigration program, how many do you think will be working on family class sponsorships when you have 7 other visa categories??

Again, my point here is there are thousands of Family Class Sponsorship applications coming in everyday, and the number of officers are very limited. It's really hard to wait when you've been waiting for years, but there's nothing we can do about it but to stretch our patience a bit longer and hope for all of this to be over sooner rather than later.

 

[CDNPR2014]

Again, my point here is there are thousands of Family Class Sponsorship applications coming in everyday, and the number of officers are very limited. It's really hard to wait when you've been waiting for years, but there's nothing we can do about it but to stretch our patience a bit longer and hope for all of this to be over sooner rather than later.

thank you for pointing this out. while we all wish the process was more efficient and shorter, there really is so much these officers can do in a day's work, and i believe it's important to remember there is a human aspect on ALL sides of the equation.

+1 indeed sir!

 

[hyper]

thank you for pointing this out. while we all wish the process was more efficient and shorter, there really is so much these officers can do in a day's work, and i believe it's important to remember there is a human aspect on ALL sides of the equation.

+1 indeed sir!

You guys are making a very good point. I think we are misundersting the topic so far.. What I'm saying is that CIC should do more to reduce the processing time, they should employ more staffs.. Truth be told, been away from your partner for more than one year is not easy, a lot can happen due to distance. Many other countries understands the important of family sponsorship and that is why their timing is very short compare to CIC..

I still maintain that 6montjs for family sponsorship is attainable if they really want to do it..

 

[nmclean]

You guys are making a very good point. I think we are misundersting the topic so far.. What I'm saying is that CIC should do more to reduce the processing time, they should employ more staffs.. Truth be told, been away from your partner for more than one year is not easy, a lot can happen due to distance. Many other countries understands the important of family sponsorship and that is why their timing is very short compare to CIC..

I still maintain that 6montjs for family sponsorship is attainable if they really want to do it..

Absolutely. The speculation here is just that, but the real numbers have been posted by CIC themselves and you can see for yourself on their website:

Report on Plans and Priorities 2015–2016 - Program 2.1: Family and Discretionary Immigration

They say here their target is around 70,000 this year, and they are dedicating 350 human resources to the task. That's 16 applications per month per employee. But as I pointed out at the beginning of the thread, the resources could easily be doubled by actually investing the fees we pay them into what we're paying for. Based on their total spending of $37.5 million to meet this target, they have an average cost of $535 per application. With 70,000 applicants paying a minimum of $1040 in fees, they have the potential to drop average processing times to half.

Attainable, yes, but obviously, they don't really want to do it.

 

[S_and_C]

Absolutely. The speculation here is just that, but the real numbers have been posted by CIC themselves and you can see for yourself on their website:

Report on Plans and Priorities 2015–2016 - Program 2.1: Family and Discretionary Immigration

They say here their target is around 70,000 this year, and they are dedicating 350 human resources to the task. That's 16 applications per month per employee. But as I pointed out at the beginning of the thread, the resources could easily be doubled by actually investing the fees we pay them into what we're paying for. Based on their total spending of $37.5 million to meet this target, they have an average cost of $535 per application. With 70,000 applicants paying a minimum of $1040 in fees, they have the potential to drop average processing times to half.

Attainable, yes, but obviously, they don't really want to do it.

I had a look through some of those details and it's worth noting that this was seems to be the mandate of the previous government (shows Chris Alexander as PC Minister of Immigration). Looking at the numbers it seems most of the Family class numbers are flat and don't change. With the new government in power, it's unclear how many changes have occurred so far in funding or resourcing at the CIC and VOs around the world. I remember the election promise of the Lberals stating that they would double the funding for Family Reunification immigration programs, and I assume higher FTE counts, in order to process these applications faster. I for one would really like to see a progress report directly from the Minister to see exactly what steps they have taken so far.

 

[yijiequ]

Look, guys.. we are talking about the government here. you should know doesn't matter Canada or Russia.. when it comes to the government; it's always pain in the xxx to deal with and you might think it's unfair. Because the government does not do the way we private sectors/aka real market driven people do. You can throw the efficiency out.

 

[CDNPR2014]

Look, guys.. we are talking about the government here. you should know doesn't matter Canada or Russia.. when it comes to the government; it's always pain in the xxx to deal with and you might think it's unfair. Because the government does not do the way we private sectors/aka real market driven people do. You can throw out the efficiency out.

exactly!

 

[nmclean]

I had a look through some of those details and it's worth noting that this was seems to be the mandate of the previous government (shows Chris Alexander as PC Minister of Immigration). Looking at the numbers it seems most of the Family class numbers are flat and don't change. With the new government in power, it's unclear how many changes have occurred so far in funding or resourcing at the CIC and VOs around the world. I remember the election promise of the Lberals stating that they would double the funding for Family Reunification immigration programs, and I assume higher FTE counts, in order to process these applications faster. I for one would really like to see a progress report directly from the Minister to see exactly what steps they have taken so far.

The 2016-2017 version is out too (with intro by John McCallum). Here's the link:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/rpp/2016-2017/index.asp#a2.2.1

So far, it doesn't look promising. The total spending budget has actually gone down. FTE has gone up from 2015, but keep in mind that in 2014 we already had the same FTE and a $46 million budget, and performance wasn't much better then. At this point I'm skeptical that "doubling the budget", if it happens, would even be very effective. The priorities need to actually change.

 

[S_and_C]

Thanks nmclean for the link to the newer report. The Minister's message has the following quote that sticks out...

A key element of our commitment to reuniting families is reducing inventories and processing times. This is a challenge that will be every bit as demanding as our effort to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees. I am confident that the lessons learned during our national project will help us meet this goal.


This is feel good quote, and if you compare the numbers for 2016-2017 it looks like they've basically reassigned people and resources to work on more Family class applications (I am looking at the Spouses/Partners/Children numbers).

From the 2015/2016 Plan:
2016/2017 planned spending - $21,164,097
2016/2017 FTEs - 181

From the 2016/2017 Plan:
2016/2017 planned spending - $21,551,176
2016/2017 FTEs - 231

So really they increased funding by only 1.8% and increased FTE count by 26%. It's a step in the right direction at least, but not anywhere near the "doubling" we might have expected.

The performance targets are missing from the plan and are "TBD", which would have indicated the quotas they have set for the program. Really though there should be no ceiling in my opinion. Also in the 2016/2017 document there are the planning highlights which seems to summarize their efforts...

Planning Highlights
•Continue to efficiently manage the inventory of applications and reduce overall processing times, especially for spouses, by managing intake for certain categories and managing the flow of applications to capitalize on where network capacity is available.
•Develop a plan to reduce processing times for family-class immigration in order reunite families more quickly and efficiently.
•Explore options aimed at waiving the two-year conditional permanent resident status for new spouses entering Canada.
•Restore the maximum age for dependants to 22 from 19 to better support permanent residents in bringing their children to Canada.
•Double the cap for sponsorship applications for parents and grandparents from 5,000 to 10,000 in order to reunite more families.

 

[nmclean]

From the 2015/2016 Plan:
2016/2017 planned spending - $21,164,097
2016/2017 FTEs - 181

From the 2016/2017 Plan:
2016/2017 planned spending - $21,551,176
2016/2017 FTEs - 231

So really they increased funding by only 1.8% and increased FTE count by 26%. It's a step in the right direction at least, but not anywhere near the "doubling" we might have expected.

It's a bit generous to even call that a 1.8% increase, considering the first one was a planned decrease from last year's $21.4mil. It looks even worse when you compare it to 2014-15:

2016/2017 planned spending - $26,452,999
2016/2017 FTEs - 235

All three documents show that the plan over the next 3 years is a steady decrease. Yet according to this CBC article...

"The Liberals have budgeted an additional $25 million to reduce application processing times in 2016-17, followed by an additional $50 million a year for the next three years."

I can't see what this could be referring to.

 

[flx2015]

It's a bit generous to even call that a 1.8% increase, considering the first one was a planned decrease from last year's $21.4mil. It looks even worse when you compare it to 2014-15:

2016/2017 planned spending - $26,452,999
2016/2017 FTEs - 235

All three documents show that the plan over the next 3 years is a steady decrease. Yet according to this CBC article...

"The Liberals have budgeted an additional $25 million to reduce application processing times in 2016-17, followed by an additional $50 million a year for the next three years."

I can't see what this could be referring to.

what are FTEs? are you saying that 2016 will be slower than the previous year?