CEC - Refusal on NOC 2171

[amit789]

Homie, it's clear according to your calculations that you have only 8 months of work experience in 2171 so you don't meet the criteria for 1 year of work experience in your chosen NOC.

Your other experience is under different NOC codes.

Second of all, you need to crosscheck your duties and responsibilities in your work reference with those stated in the NOC lead statements, to ensure that they match enough for them to accept them. It seems this is not the case.

I believe this is not true. As per the CIC website for eligibility -

Your work experience can be in 1 or more NOC 0, A or B jobs.

You must show that you performed the duties set out in the lead statement of the occupational description in the National Occupational Classification. This includes all the essential duties and most of the main duties listed.

Also, I have friends who have submitted Canadian experience with multiple jobs & different NOC codes within 1 year and they all have received their PR.

 

[nat.abramovich]

I believe this is not true. As per the CIC website for eligibility -

Your work experience can be in 1 or more NOC 0, A or B jobs.

You must show that you performed the duties set out in the lead statement of the occupational description in the National Occupational Classification. This includes all the essential duties and most of the main duties listed.

Also, I have friends who have submitted Canadian experience with multiple jobs & different NOC codes within 1 year and they all have received their PR.

As i said earlier, its probably due to foreigh work issues and they lack duties which is most essential part of the verification process, with that being said primary noc thing is not the case with cec,
Hope it helps.

 

[Islander216]

To me it seems clear what the VO said.

Maybe your friends have foreign experience in the NOC code which contributed to having at least 1 year of experience in their primary NOC.

 

[amit789]

As i said earlier, its probably due to foreigh work issues and they lack duties which is most essential part of the verification process, with that being said primary noc thing is not the case with cec,
Hope it helps.

But I am confused why my refusal letter doesn't state that the problem was with my foreign work exp. letter. I am trying to understand what the exact reason of the refusal was. The letter is not very clear to me.

 

[amit789]

scylla
canuck_in_uk
canuck78
legalfalcon

Any guidance will be highly appreciated?

 

[akgpandey]

scylla
canuck_in_uk
canuck78
legalfalcon

Any guidance will be highly appreciated?

I would suggest to go for reconsideration, with detailed explanation of each experiences irrespective of in canada or outside canada exp. You may like to consult immigration attorneys. They can take up your case and handle with CIC. Wish you good luck.

 

[akgpandey]

scylla
canuck_in_uk
canuck78
legalfalcon

Any guidance will be highly appreciated?

Can you post the roles and responsibilities for both NOC you submitted to CIC?

 

[nat.abramovich]

Can you post the roles and responsibilities for both NOC you submitted to CIC?

www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/urgent-cec-combined-work-experience-in-two-different-noc-code.533658/
Similar to ur case

 

[amit789]

Can you post the roles and responsibilities for both NOC you submitted to CIC?

IT Project Coordinator

DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES


Strategy & Planning

Codifies the project scope, goals, and deliverables that support business goals in collaboration with senior management and stakeholders. Effectively communicates project expectations to team members and stakeholders in a timely and clear fashion. Liaises with project stakeholders on an ongoing basis. Sets and continually manage project expectations with team members and other stakeholders. Plans and schedule project timelines and milestones using appropriate tools. Tracks project milestones and deliverables. Determines the frequency and content of status reports from the project team, analyze results, and troubleshoot problem areas. Codifies project success criteria and disseminate them to involved parties throughout project life cycle. Conducts project post mortems and create a recommendations report in order to identify successful and unsuccessful project elements. Applies industry best practices and tools for project execution and management.

Acquisition & Deployment

Estimates the resources and participants needed to achieve project goals. Where required, negotiates with other department heads for the acquisition of required personnel from within the IT group. Determines and assesses the need for additional staff and/or consultants and make the appropriate recommendations during the project cycle.

Operational Control

Direct and manage project activities from beginning to end. Develop full-scale project plans and associated communications documents. Assign tasks and responsibilities to appropriate personnel. Identify and resolve issues and conflicts within the project team. Identify and manage project dependencies and critical path. Develop and deliver progress reports, proposals, requirements documentation, and presentations. Proactively manage changes in project scope, identify potential crises, and devise contingency plans. Supervise project team members and contractors and influence them to take positive action and accountability for their assigned work. Develop any business relationships vital to the success of the project. Acts as a backup for other BaU Project Coordinators.

Any other job-related duties and/or projects that may be assigned.

Project Manager

Project Manager -

Duties & responsibilities -

1. Learning & implementing the keys to client relationship building and successful ERP software project delivery.

2. Providing project support to the project teams & customers through schedule updates, maintaining project controls. developing progress reports & executing communication plans.

3. Learning and using the tools of Microsoft CRM software to manage our project implementations

4. Learning and using the customer portal to maintain real-time communication with our customers

5. Attending project meetings, capturing accurate action items, and key decisions in meeting minutes.

6. Act as the active communication link between the customer and all project stakeholders

7. Ensure that all project activities are conducted in accordance with PMO methodologies

8. Manage and control project budget and scope of successful project delivery.


Also, each letter has the remaining details -

an official document printed on company letterhead (must include the applicant’s name, the company’s contact information [address, telephone number, and email address], and the name, title, and signature of the immediate supervisor or personnel officer at the company),
should indicate all positions held while employed at the company and must include the following details: job title, duties and responsibilities, job status (if current job), dates worked for the company, number of work hours per week and annual salary plus benefits;

 

[akgpandey]

Well, i disagree, i think the VO states clearly he needs at least 1 year of experience in the primary NOC overall for him to be able to apply under it. Otherwise the VO would have only stated that his work references did not meet the requirements.

There are two separate criteria:

1. Do you have 1 year of Canadian work experience?
2. Do you have 1 year of work experience in your NOC overall?

He meets the first criteria but not the second.

If he had 1 year of experience in 2171 and 1 year comprised of experience in other NOCs, he wouldn't have had this problem.

Think of it logically, if you don't have this requirement, it means someone could have only 1 month of work experience and apply for it as his primary NOC, for his immigration application. It wouldn't make sense.

I agree with @Islander216 and its make sense. I talked to freind, he is into immigration business in Delhi. Just quoting what he explained to me:

1. For CEC, 1 year work exp mandatory in skilled occupation that can be in one NOC or multiple, but it should be either NOC 0, A or B. Your work experience can be in 1 or more NOC 0, A or B jobs.
2. One needs to have 1 year of exp in same occupation irrespective of in canada or outside canada but within last 10 years. This also mention in their eligibility. This is actually a tricky part for very few candidates to decide which NOC to choose in express entry and PR application.

Extract from CIC
ii. In the last 10 years, how many total years of foreign skilled work experience do you have?
It must have been paid, full-time (or an equal amount in part-time), and in only one occupation (NOC skill type 0, A or B).

CIC needs this information to maintain job market and labour fulfillment to know how many people are immigrating in what occupations. This requires further to decide future strategies.

@amit789 I really do not have complete details about your case. It you have selected 2171 with less than 1 year of exp. It will never be approved as this strict eligibility requirements. Most of the times CIC officers considers applications with self declaration or co workers letter in lieu of reference letter.
I discussed your case with my friend, with limited info you posted. You could have applied with 2282 as primary NOC as this would be your best bet. Or you could make it occupation code same for current job making it 1 year. You do not have to find occupation code based on your title as for IT folks it not ease. I have seen many friends having job title containg technology skillsets like Tibco developer etc. Its not mandatory that your title must match with their example titiles mentioned under each NOC. CIC only verifies whatever NOC code you select , you must show evidence thru reference letter containing job duties matching atleast 70-80% to what they listed under that NOC code.

Now looking at your case, if you really want to go for reconsideration with 2282 code, go thru lawyers. I am sure they will handle this case very easily but definitely a costly approach. You can also try by yourself by detailed LOE mentioning you choosed wrong NOC code for eligibility.
But I would recommend to wait for additional few months so that you can complete 1 year exp in 0213 from current job and then apply again in future. DONT worry about getting refusal for second time in future, as your rejection is not due to false or fraud case. Its just due to eligibility criteria not met based on what you entered and provided evidence. I really feel bad for you as after investing money , time and all effort got refusal letter. Wishing you a good luck, my dear friend.

 

[akgpandey]

IT Project Coordinator

DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES


Strategy & Planning

Codifies the project scope, goals, and deliverables that support business goals in collaboration with senior management and stakeholders. Effectively communicates project expectations to team members and stakeholders in a timely and clear fashion. Liaises with project stakeholders on an ongoing basis. Sets and continually manage project expectations with team members and other stakeholders. Plans and schedule project timelines and milestones using appropriate tools. Tracks project milestones and deliverables. Determines the frequency and content of status reports from the project team, analyze results, and troubleshoot problem areas. Codifies project success criteria and disseminate them to involved parties throughout project life cycle. Conducts project post mortems and create a recommendations report in order to identify successful and unsuccessful project elements. Applies industry best practices and tools for project execution and management.

Acquisition & Deployment

Estimates the resources and participants needed to achieve project goals. Where required, negotiates with other department heads for the acquisition of required personnel from within the IT group. Determines and assesses the need for additional staff and/or consultants and make the appropriate recommendations during the project cycle.

Operational Control

Direct and manage project activities from beginning to end. Develop full-scale project plans and associated communications documents. Assign tasks and responsibilities to appropriate personnel. Identify and resolve issues and conflicts within the project team. Identify and manage project dependencies and critical path. Develop and deliver progress reports, proposals, requirements documentation, and presentations. Proactively manage changes in project scope, identify potential crises, and devise contingency plans. Supervise project team members and contractors and influence them to take positive action and accountability for their assigned work. Develop any business relationships vital to the success of the project. Acts as a backup for other BaU Project Coordinators.

Any other job-related duties and/or projects that may be assigned.

Project Manager

Project Manager -

Duties & responsibilities -

1. Learning & implementing the keys to client relationship building and successful ERP software project delivery.

2. Providing project support to the project teams & customers through schedule updates, maintaining project controls. developing progress reports & executing communication plans.

3. Learning and using the tools of Microsoft CRM software to manage our project implementations

4. Learning and using the customer portal to maintain real-time communication with our customers

5. Attending project meetings, capturing accurate action items, and key decisions in meeting minutes.

6. Act as the active communication link between the customer and all project stakeholders

7. Ensure that all project activities are conducted in accordance with PMO methodologies

8. Manage and control project budget and scope of successful project delivery.


Also, each letter has the remaining details -

an official document printed on company letterhead (must include the applicant’s name, the company’s contact information [address, telephone number, and email address], and the name, title, and signature of the immediate supervisor or personnel officer at the company),
should indicate all positions held while employed at the company and must include the following details: job title, duties and responsibilities, job status (if current job), dates worked for the company, number of work hours per week and annual salary plus benefits;

Its not 70-80% matching as per main duties listed on NOC website for these specific codes. Your refusal letter has two parts - 1 year exp stuff - already explained just above and second part is your job duties not inline with their main duties...

 

[amit789]

I agree with @Islander216 and its make sense. I talked to freind, he is into immigration business in Delhi. Just quoting what he explained to me:

1. For CEC, 1 year work exp mandatory in skilled occupation that can be in one NOC or multiple, but it should be either NOC 0, A or B. Your work experience can be in 1 or more NOC 0, A or B jobs.
2. One needs to have 1 year of exp in same occupation irrespective of in canada or outside canada but within last 10 years. This also mention in their eligibility. This is actually a tricky part for very few candidates to decide which NOC to choose in express entry and PR application.

Extract from CIC
ii. In the last 10 years, how many total years of foreign skilled work experience do you have?
It must have been paid, full-time (or an equal amount in part-time), and in only one occupation (NOC skill type 0, A or B).

CIC needs this information to maintain job market and labour fulfillment to know how many people are immigrating in what occupations. This requires further to decide future strategies.

@amit789 I really do not have complete details about your case. It you have selected 2171 with less than 1 year of exp. It will never be approved as this strict eligibility requirements. Most of the times CIC officers considers applications with self declaration or co workers letter in lieu of reference letter.
I discussed your case with my friend, with limited info you posted. You could have applied with 2282 as primary NOC as this would be your best bet. Or you could make it occupation code same for current job making it 1 year. You do not have to find occupation code based on your title as for IT folks it not ease. I have seen many friends having job title containg technology skillsets like Tibco developer etc. Its not mandatory that your title must match with their example titiles mentioned under each NOC. CIC only verifies whatever NOC code you select , you must show evidence thru reference letter containing job duties matching atleast 70-80% to what they listed under that NOC code.

Now looking at your case, if you really want to go for reconsideration with 2282 code, go thru lawyers. I am sure they will handle this case very easily but definitely a costly approach. You can also try by yourself by detailed LOE mentioning you choosed wrong NOC code for eligibility.
But I would recommend to wait for additional few months so that you can complete 1 year exp in 0213 from current job and then apply again in future. DONT worry about getting refusal for second time in future, as your rejection is not due to false or fraud case. Its just due to eligibility criteria not met based on what you entered and provided evidence. I really feel bad for you as after investing money , time and all effort got refusal letter. Wishing you a good luck, my dear friend.

Thanks for your response. I really appreciate it. Please check the requirements from CIC

Minimum requirements
You must

• meet the required language levels needed for your job for each language ability
  • writing
  • reading
  • listening
  • speaking
• have at least 1 year of skilled work experience in Canada, in the last 3 years before you apply, and the work experience must be:
  • full-time, or
  • an equal amount in part-time
• have gained your work experience by working in Canada legally

According to the Canadian National Occupational Classification, skilled work experience means:

• managerial jobs (skill level 0)
• professional jobs (skill type A)
• technical jobs and skilled trades (skill type B)

Your work experience can be in 1 or more NOC 0, A or B jobs.

You must show that you performed the duties set out in the lead statement of the occupational description in the National Occupational Classification. This includes all the essential duties and most of the main duties listed.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/canadian-experience-class.html#minimum

Can you please share the link for your mentioned Extract from CIC

 

[nat.abramovich]

Its not 70-80% matching as per main duties listed on NOC website for these specific codes. Your refusal letter has two parts - 1 year exp stuff - already explained just above and second part is your job duties not inline with their main duties...

1 year full time argument is not true under cec , primary Noc requirement is not true for CEC applicants. You can combine different NOCs different companies as long as they fall under A B or 0

 

[amit789]

1 year full time argument is not true under cec , primary Noc requirement is not true for CEC applicants. You can combine different NOCs different companies as long as they fall under A B or 0

Exactly

 

[akgpandey]

1 year full time argument is not true under cec , primary Noc requirement is not true for CEC applicants. You can combine different NOCs different companies as long as they fall under A B or 0

Yes I also agree as I mentioned in first point. But if one claims points for foreign exp then it must be in only one occupation.