CEC Already Working with no LMIA - Scared and Confused

[cecandconfused]

Hey Everyone, and thanks for your help in advance,

I'm currently working under PGWP Open Work Permit and have been working with the same Employer for almost 4 Years now (under Off-Campus Work Permit part time when I was in school and Full time since Nov 2013 after obtaining PGWP under "Open Work Permit" following graduation from University of Calgary).
I never needed LMIA or LMO to obtain this employment. My employer is a crown corporation in Alberta so it's not a small company or anything and they never asked/did LMIA to hire me, neither did I ever need one. Now I'm really confused about Express Entry:

1- I'm working full time in a NOC 0 position and plan to apply under Express Entry as CEC since I have obtained 1 year Full Time work in eligible NOC. Does my employer need to obtain LMIA for me to submit my application? Does not having an LMIA mean I don't have a "Job Offer" even though I'm working in a full time Permanent role? That just makes no sense to me.
2- If not having an LMIA means not having a "Job Offer", then if I get ITA (based on other factors), do I have to apply for LMIA then? or can I just get my PR without LMIA?
3- Should I send an application via the old system NOW instead of waiting for EE, or should I wait for EE, or alternatively both?

I'm just really confused about LMIA. How does an employer obtain an LMIA for someone who's already working? None of this makes sense to me. CEC is supposed to be a lot simpler than this. I've been in Canada for 7 years now and I have to go through this really confusing ordeal. Any help will be appreciated.

Signed,
Confused

 

[Nightrocker]

I'm in the same boat. The information on CIC's website is bit confusing. To me it looks like to me that for a candidate like you and me (and many others) won't need a LMIA. Check out the link below, if you haven't already.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/hire/offers.asp

For Canadian Experience Class (not required but applicants can get extra points under the Comprehensive Ranking System for a job offer)

Hey Everyone, and thanks for your help in advance,

I'm currently working under PGWP Open Work Permit and have been working with the same Employer for almost 4 Years now (under Off-Campus Work Permit part time when I was in school and Full time since Nov 2013 after obtaining PGWP under "Open Work Permit" following graduation from University of Calgary).
I never needed LMIA or LMO to obtain this employment. My employer is a crown corporation in Alberta so it's not a small company or anything and they never asked/did LMIA to hire me, neither did I ever need one. Now I'm really confused about Express Entry:

1- I'm working full time in a NOC 0 position and plan to apply under Express Entry as CEC since I have obtained 1 year Full Time work in eligible NOC. Does my employer need to obtain LMIA for me to submit my application? Does not having an LMIA mean I don't have a "Job Offer" even though I'm working in a full time Permanent role? That just makes no sense to me.
2- If not having an LMIA means not having a "Job Offer", then if I get ITA (based on other factors), do I have to apply for LMIA then? or can I just get my PR without LMIA?
3- Should I send an application via the old system NOW instead of waiting for EE, or should I wait for EE, or alternatively both?

I'm just really confused about LMIA. How does an employer obtain an LMIA for someone who's already working? None of this makes sense to me. CEC is supposed to be a lot simpler than this. I've been in Canada for 7 years now and I have to go through this really confusing ordeal. Any help will be appreciated.

Signed,
Confused

 

[cecandconfused]

And that's the thing. Does that mean that I won't get the 600 points? And if not, will I ever receive ITA just based on my other factors? It seems very ridiculous to be treated this way after being in the country for 6 years, having an excellent job in my field. And now I have to compete (at a lower level) with someone out of Canada with fewer qualifications because a small employer (read: someone's cousin) got him an LMIA. That is unfair and not at all beneficial for Canada.

 

[boske83]

I'm in the same boat. The information on CIC's website is bit confusing. To me it looks like to me that for a candidate like you and me (and many others) won't need a LMIA. Check out the link below, if you haven't already.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/hire/offers.asp

For Canadian Experience Class (not required but applicants can get extra points under the Comprehensive Ranking System for a job offer)

You need to calculate CRS points, and to see if you have enough points to be picked among other candidates... in case you are above threshold, you will receive ITA without LMIA... in case you are not - you will need LMIA to obtain invitation...
Please note that FSW class candidates claim points in several areas, and hit skill transferability combos mainly in 2 areas - education and foreign work xp + language, which max them for that category...
I think CEC class will, without government help, hardly be competitive with FSW class... however, this is just my humble opinion...

 

[cecandconfused]

You need to calculate CRS points, and to see if you have enough points to be picked among other candidates... in case you are above threshold, you will receive ITA without LMIA... in case you are not - you will need LMIA to obtain invitation...
Please note that FSW class candidates claim points in several areas, and hit skill transferability combos mainly in 2 areas - education and foreign work xp + language, which max them for that category...
I think CEC class will, without government help, hardly be competitive with FSW class... however, this is just my humble opinion...

I'm afraid you're right in that aspect. For CEC Class, I am maxed in the CRS based on age (21-29), Language (CLB 12), Canadian Exp + Canadian Education. But even then I can't compete with someone in FSW program or someone with LMIA. How is that even possible?

 

[boske83]

And that's the thing. Does that mean that I won't get the 600 points? And if not, will I ever receive ITA just based on my other factors? It seems very ridiculous to be treated this way after being in the country for 6 years, having an excellent job in my field. And now I have to compete (at a lower level) with someone out of Canada with fewer qualifications because a small employer (read: someone's cousin) got him an LMIA. That is unfair and not at all beneficial for Canada.

Your anger is justified - if I am in your position, i would feel the same... but -it is their country, their rules - they can do whatever they want...

You are wrong in one thing - you will not compete with low skilled people - by having canadian experience, and probably better language knowledge than most of foreigners, you can obtain points which can be very important... only FSW with master thesis, 5+ years of experience within NOC class, and great IELTS scores will be competitive to CEC people...

LMIA or PNP, if obtained, is the entry card by itself, but not many people will have it.

 

[cecandconfused]

Your anger is justified - if I am in your position, i would feel the same... but -it is their country, their rules - they can do whatever they want...

You are wrong in one thing - you will not compete with low skilled people - by having canadian experience, and probably better language knowledge than most of foreigners, you can obtain points which can be very important... only FSW with master thesis, 5+ years of experience within NOC class, and great IELTS scores will be competitive to CEC people...

LMIA or PNP, if obtained, is the entry card by itself, but not many people will have it.

Thanks Boske. I am just afraid that my CRS points alone won't make it for ITA. So now I'm contemplating whether I should apply before Dec 31st and wait 13 months, or apply under EE. Could I do both?

 

[boske83]

Thanks Boske. I am just afraid that my CRS points alone won't make it for ITA. So now I'm contemplating whether I should apply before Dec 31st and wait 13 months, or apply under EE. Could I do both?

As far as I know, you can - a lot of FSW people will also apply under EE... so there is no reason that CEC people cannot apply under EE as well...
Regarding points - if you check the spreadsheet mentioned in other thread, if you have 450+ pts you are in upper 20% of candidates... at least that is the random statistics sample from this forum, and should be very good...

 

[curious_123]

There have been lot of discussion previously..you will not be eligible for 600 points...

There will be around 21000 CEC PR given this year...In 2013 it was 7500 and in 2014 it is 5500 as of now... we are hoping all CEC candidate will go though ...

Like you many candidate do not have LMIA...

 

[nataliewg]

I have the same situation here but unlike you, I don't yet have one year's experience. My frd who already got one year's experience applied under the old CEC path already, If I were u, I would apply under the old rules right away and have my file sent in before Dec 31 to avoid uncertainty

 

[mf4361]

If you are able to apply now, my suggestion is do so. Express entry is uncertain at this point and people (prospective immigrants, employers, some lawyers) are getting stressed out because of it. [1]

As for the 600 points for PGWP holders, the consensus of this forum is any job without LMIA means nothing to CIC in EE. So yes even with a perm term contract in NOC 0,A,B, worked 1 years won't cut it. You can apply under CEC without LMIA, but not the 600 points. If you get ITA without LMIA, you shouldn't need it since it's not part of requirement of CEC.

It is also unsure whether CEC will be pooled separately to FSW/FST/PNP. No clear indication on CIC website say anything about separate pools

[1] http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/express-entry-could-sideswipe-high-skilled-foreign-workers-1.2870369

 

[cecandconfused]

Thanks all for your replies. It seems like a lot of people are encouraging me to apply NOW rather than waiting for EE. My concern is the 13 month processing time for CEC under current system as opposed to the 6 months promised time under EE. If I enter EE AFTER applying under current system and receive an ITA, can I recall the old application and apply online under the new system? Does anyone know if that's possible?

 

[ashrafgk]

Same boat my friend, I am working with PGWP .. so there was no need for LMIA. Hopefully there will be more clarification/fixes .. because this pretty much rules out any international student who graduated from a Canadian University then got the 1 year experience.

 

[cecandconfused]

According to my calculation I'm between 444 and 477 CRS points (depending on some interpretations of the points system). I don't think that's nearly enough to carry me. I think it's time to face the situation and apply before Dec 31st. What do you guys think?

 

[mf4361]

447 is actually pretty high (disregarding the 600 points atm) according to this fellow. [1] And let's not forget target CEC aspirants are gonna be about tripled to 21-24k. [2]

[1] http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/if-not-getting-job-offer-or-pnp-t259635.0.html;msg3839879#msg3839879
[2] http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/express-entry-immigration-points-system-revealed-before-jan-1-launch-1.2852922