Can you move out of Canada after you get your PR and still keep it?

[missmini]

i don't know if it's true or not...to be honest i didn't study these specific regulations because they will never apply to us...when we go to Canada we go to stay not to go back...but i'm on this forum for some time now and i read previous threads and that was the advice of some people, senior members, and i respect their opinion

bottom line: to be able to keep ur residency u need to physically be in Canada for 2 years every 5 years; the rest would b exceptions to this rule; if the regulations u mentioned are the whole picture then it would honestly bother me; i would not find it fair for some people to apply for PR without ever having the intention to live in Canada (it's not fair for the ones who genuinely want to live in Canada); processing their applications will take ressources and slow down the process of the rest; also they will never contribute to the Canadian society but on the other hand they will take advantage of its good stuff whenever they please.... :

 

[Kaycee1]

also they will never contribute to the Canadian society but on the other hand they will take advantage of its good stuff whenever they please.... :

Exactly - they come here to get their health care needs all taken care of at our expense then leave and go back "home".

 

[ben_f_uk]

Exactly - they come here to get their health care needs all taken care of at our expense then leave and go back "home".

Not necessarily. I live in the UK -- we have our own national health care system. I was recently granted a spousal visa. However, it expires in a few months time and for various work/commitment reasons we are not quite ready to make the big move before the expiry date.

So the original question is important to us. Should I "land" in Canada and take up PR status before the expiry date even if I intend to stay in the UK for a number of months before truly moving to Canada? Is it legal to do so? Are there any consequences -- such as: am I liable to Canadian tax from the date I take up PR status even though I will still be living/working and paying tax in the UK? Is PR status different than residency status for tax filing purposes?

Thanks,
Ben

 

[AlieW]

I'm also going to weigh in on this as it doesn't really seem to bother me. If they want to apply for PR they have to do it at some point, they either do it now, and don't move for a few years, or they do it later when they are ready to move. It doesn't really make a different to the system. They are still putting in an application that has to be processed at some point. And there are so many factors weighing in on such a decision often change especially given the amount of time it takes for applications to be processed. To expect everyone to be in a position to pick up and move as soon as the PR is issued is not realistic. Honestly, it almost shows bit of foresight on the part of the couple, they may be interested in living in Canada, they apply now without the stress of waiting for the application to be processed, and can return to Canada at their leisure. I know this is not going to be a popular view and not something that I personally would consider doing, but I can see the reasoning behind it.

Also, unless you are physically present in Canada (even as a citizen) you can't really 'take advantage of the good stuff'. Health Care coverage in Ontario for example requires that you be physically present in Ontario for 156 days a year. So a PR who isn't physically present isn't covered

@Ben_f_uk - yes you should land even if you don't intend on residing in Canada right away. If you don't land before your PR expires you have to start all over again, and yes I believe it is legal to do so. As for taxes if you pay taxes on your UK income in the UK then the Canadian gov't does not general tax you a second time on the same income but check with an accountant on that.

 

[ben_f_uk]

@ Ben_f_uk - yes you should land even if you don't intend on residing in Canada right away. If you don't land before your PR expires you have to start all over again, and yes I believe it is legal to do so. As for taxes if you pay taxes on your UK income in the UK then the Canadian gov't does not general tax you a second time on the same income but check with an accountant on that.

Thanks for your reply. I have done some more searching at it appears that resident for immigration purposes is distinct from immigration for tax purposes. In case it is of use to others, some links I found:
www .cra-arc .gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ndvdls/nnrs-eng.html
www .cra-arc .gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ndvdls/nwcmr-eng.html

 

[uccemebug]

I'm also going to weigh in on this as it doesn't really seem to bother me. If they want to apply for PR they have to do it at some point, they either do it now, and don't move for a few years, or they do it later when they are ready to move. It doesn't really make a different to the system. They are still putting in an application that has to be processed at some point. And there are so many factors weighing in on such a decision often change especially given the amount of time it takes for applications to be processed. To expect everyone to be in a position to pick up and move as soon as the PR is issued is not realistic. Honestly, it almost shows bit of foresight on the part of the couple, they may be interested in living in Canada, they apply now without the stress of waiting for the application to be processed, and can return to Canada at their leisure. I know this is not going to be a popular view and not something that I personally would consider doing, but I can see the reasoning behind it.

Well reasoned, and said. But:
a) it shows a lack of commitment to the country (which made some effort to accommodate the applicants)
b) it does place a burden on a system that is already struggling with many "more shades of grey" situations—this kind of hit and run application just adds complication and weakens the case for the family class of immigration in the eyes of the general population (as in the comments we're seeing here)

I think there's a tendency among the British and Americans in particular to view Canada as a pseudo-country of convenience for purposes such as avoiding military or tax obligations. I can't count how many times I was asked, while living in Japan, by Americans what the process would be in swapping their US citizenship for Canadian simply to avoid the IRS. Canadian citizenship must be made to be taken seriously, and I think that that starts with PR status.

Also, unless you are physically present in Canada (even as a citizen) you can't really 'take advantage of the good stuff'. Health Care coverage in Ontario for example requires that you be physically present in Ontario for 156 days a year. So a PR who isn't physically present isn't covered

Very true. And that applies for all social benefits. This applies to citizens who live abroad as well as PR. Any Canadian who thinks there's some magic advantage to "having it both ways" has obviously never lived abroad. The list of things you can't do in Canada as a non-resident if you want to avoid dual taxation goes all the way down to having magazine subscriptions and owning furniture. And even if you are still liable for Canadian income tax, you still can't have the benefits.

@ Ben_f_uk - yes you should land even if you don't intend on residing in Canada right away. If you don't land before your PR expires you have to start all over again, and yes I believe it is legal to do so. As for taxes if you pay taxes on your UK income in the UK then the Canadian gov't does not general tax you a second time on the same income but check with an accountant on that.

You must declare yourself non-resident to Canada Revenue Agency, but they'll still want to see a tax return for any partial year lived in Canada. Declaring non-residence shouldn't be hard in your case since it doesn't sound like you have a lot of attachments to Canada at this point (e.g. employment, membership in organizations, ownership of property).

 

[YorkFactory]

I can't count how many times I was asked, while living in Japan, by Americans what the process would be in swapping their US citizenship for Canadian simply to avoid the IRS.

This is stupid of them, because if you do renounce U.S. citizenship to avoid the IRS, that doesn't magically absolve you of your tax liability. Besides, unless you are really, really wealthy, moving to Canada to avoid the IRS is kind of pointless; Canada is not exactly an income-tax haven. If you make less than about $95,000 a year, and live full-time outside the U.S., you can keep your U.S. citizenship and generally owe no income tax. Above that amount, any tax you pay to Canada counts against any tax you would owe the U.S. (I'm not a tax expert, but every source I've consulted about this agrees.)

Bottom line: the IRS is already one step ahead of you.

 

[missmini]

i agree with uccemebug, there r cases who apply for Canadian PR (no matter from which immigration class) just to have it just in case something happens in their home country...they put burden on the current system...of course, they cannot take advantage of the social benefits (although in QC u have to live 6 months every year i think in order to be medically covered and some actually do like that :-\) but they still have many rights as Canadians PR (if they stay in their home country and a war happens they will expect Canada to come to rescue them, but who will actually pay for all that? probably the ones living in Canada and paying their taxes full ) probably my opinion too won't like to many people, but it's just a point of view

i do also agree with what AllieW said, the PR process is so long, many things can happen from the moment u apply and u want to move to Canada until the moment u can...maybe there r things u still have to take care of in ur home country until u actually move, maybe there r family emergencies and at that moment u cannot move anymore...that's why they have "the 2 years in Canada every 5 years"...i think it's a very relaxing rule and if there are exceptions to it, they should be studied carefully (balance between abusing the system and really genuine problems, emergencies, etc...)

as for the ben_f_uk question, yes resident from immigration point is different than resident for tax purposes....that is why at the moment u become PR u'll fill the taxes as non-resident...i'm not sure how they calculate, probably u'll have to pay less than a resident but i'm sure that they don't "double-tax" u; it means if u already pay taxes for UK u will not pay the whole thing again for Canada, but maybe just a difference (if u were supposed to pay for Canada more than for UK)....also, u definitely have to land; if ur visa expires u have to start the whole process again; getting the PR once does not mean that u'll get it again (especially cuz u didn't take advantage from the 1st time)

good luck everyone!!

 

[ben_f_uk]

Well reasoned, and said. But:
a) it shows a lack of commitment to the country (which made some effort to accommodate the applicants)
b) it does place a burden on a system that is already struggling with many "more shades of grey" situations—this kind of hit and run application just adds complication and weakens the case for the family class of immigration in the eyes of the general population (as in the comments we're seeing here)

I think there's a tendency among the British and Americans in particular to view Canada as a pseudo-country of convenience for purposes such as avoiding military or tax obligations. I can't count how many times I was asked, while living in Japan, by Americans what the process would be in swapping their US citizenship for Canadian simply to avoid the IRS. Canadian citizenship must be made to be taken seriously, and I think that that starts with PR status.

Thanks for your thoughts. The flip side is that the medical test is only valid for 12 months and it takes around 6+ months for the application to be processed. The outcome is not certain and there is an emphasis on not making any irrevocable plans for a move to Canada. Once the result is finally certain, less than six months is a very short time in which to set into place the move where this might involve finishing out a lease on an apartment or selling a home, school term dates and exams, work and personal commitments. I agree there should be some level of commitment to the country but how would you measure or test for that. It is similarly unfair to expect applicants to drop everything as soon as a visa is issued to take it up immediately. I would say I am no less committed to a move to Canada... I simply need more time to leave the UK. And I am not sure I see how it is a burden on the system.

 

[missmini]

Thanks for your thoughts. The flip side is that the medical test is only valid for 12 months and it takes around 6+ months for the application to be processed. The outcome is not certain and there is an emphasis on not making any irrevocable plans for a move to Canada. Once the result is finally certain, less than six months is a very short time in which to set into place the move where this might involve finishing out a lease on an apartment or selling a home, school term dates and exams, work and personal commitments. I agree there should be some level of commitment to the country but how would you measure or test for that. It is similarly unfair to expect applicants to drop everything as soon as a visa is issued to take it up immediately. I would say I am no less committed to a move to Canada... I simply need more time to leave the UK. And I am not sure I see how it is a burden on the system.

it's ok, all ur problems are understandable; but don't let ur visa expiry!! just land, wait for ur PR card (u should get it in 1month max) and then go back to UK to finalize everything won't 2 years be enough for that?

 

[alasken]

Easy on the assumptions please guys. Personally I am from Norway, one of the richest countries in the world with one of the most developed and complete welfare systems out there. The country is absolutely booming and I am probably losing out on a lot of opportunities by living in Canada, so please don't accuse me of coming here to exploit the Canadian system. I could list a number of reasons for why it is a lot better to send in the PR application right now even thought we are *thinking about* going back to my country after I get it, but I don't feel like I should have to defend myself on an internet forum. I just want to ask you to take a moment and consider that people are in different life situations and it is usually best not to make assumptions and accusations about other people.

 

[ben_f_uk]

Easy on the assumptions please guys. Personally I am from Norway, one of the richest countries in the world with one of the most developed and complete welfare systems out there. The country is absolutely booming and I am probably losing out on a lot of opportunities by living in Canada, so please don't accuse me of coming here to exploit the Canadian system. I could list a number of reasons for why it is a lot better to send in the PR application right now even thought we are *thinking about* going back to my country after I get it, but I don't feel like I should have to defend myself on an internet forum. I just want to ask you to take a moment and consider that people are in different life situations and it is usually best not to make assumptions and accusations about other people.

Please let me know what you learn as I am in a similar situation and am trying to decide the best way to take up my entry visa before it expires even though my move to Canada will be delayed for a while too.

 

[ben_f_uk]

I know that she has to live in Canada at the time that I actually get the PR, ...

Is this necessarily the case? Where did you read that she needs to be living Canada for you to land as a PR?

 

[alasken]

Is this necessarily the case? Where did you read that she needs to be living Canada for you to land as a PR?

Yeah this is true. The sponsor has to live in Canada at the time that you get your PR. If the sponsor lives abroad when you hand in your application you have to provide proof that he/she will be living in Canada when you get PR.

 

[alasken]

Please let me know what you learn as I am in a similar situation and am trying to decide the best way to take up my entry visa before it expires even though my move to Canada will be delayed for a while too.

I'll let you know when I know for sure, but I will assume the people that responded earlier in this thread are right and that I have it for at least 5 years and don't think I will spend more time researching. Nothing has been decided on our part on where we will be living next year, so I will be working on finalizing my application instead