Can you exit Canada while on conditional PR for 2 years?

[GG and B]

you will not be refused entry into canada if you land as a pr and return home! CBSA can not refuse you entry if you have valid PR status. In fact, i don't think they can even refuse entry if you're a pr and haven't met the residency obligations. All CBSA is able to do is note it in their system and notify CIC if they suspect something is up with residency obligations. again, you are free to leave and enter canada whenever you want when you become a pr, and while yes it's important to be aware of condition 51 obligations, do you really think a random CBSA officer is going to know you have "condition 51" attached to your pr? this is something that CIC is concerned about, NOT CBSA. They are separate entities and don't follow the same standards for a lot of things. From my experience many CBSA agents don't know the correct rules about PR obligations anyway. CBSA agents aren't going to be screening every single pr, asking them to prove the number of days they have been living in canada upon every reentry, ask PRs if they have condition 51 attached, or refuse entry because they are suspicious about the length of time you've been out of canada. again, CBSA does not have the authority to refuse you entry once you are a landed pr. it's really not something to worry about so relax.

While this type of thing may be "normal" in other parts of the world, in North America, we can travel freely without the fear of such hassles, assuming you have the legal right to do so (Which having PR status means!).

THANK YOU! I was hoping for a response like this!

 

[Rob_TO]

do you really think a random CBSA officer is going to know you have "condition 51" attached to your pr? this is something that CIC is concerned about, NOT CBSA. They are separate entities and don't follow the same standards for a lot of things.

You should read this: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2012/ob480.asp
It very clearly states multiple times that CBSA is aware of the conditional PR rules, and is part of the effort to enforce them.

Yes they will see on their system quite easily if a PR has conditional status or not. Whether they decide to investigate condition 51 compliance (perhaps if the PR is traveling alone), is up to them and anyone's guess how they are actually doing things in practice today.

 

[Aquakitty]

You should read this: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2012/ob480.asp
It very clearly states multiple times that CBSA is aware of the conditional PR rules, and is part of the effort to enforce them.

Yes they will see on their system quite easily if a PR has conditional status or not. Whether they decide to investigate condition 51 compliance (perhaps if the PR is traveling alone), is up to them and anyone's guess how they are actually doing things in practice today.

So it says there the CBSA can :

use the Global Case Management System (GCMS) to track investigations for a relationship of convenience or when receiving requests for an exception to the conditional permanent residence, as described in section 8 of this OB.

The CIC definition of a conjugal relationship:

Evidence of a conjugal relationship

Factors that can be considered in determining whether the sponsored spouse is in a conjugal relationship include:

shared shelter (for example, sleeping arrangements);
sexual and personal behaviour (for example, fidelity, commitment, feelings towards each other) in instances where an interview is warranted;
services (for example, conduct and habit with respect to the sharing of household chores);
social activities (for example, their attitude and conduct as a couple in the community and with their families);
economic support (for example, financial arrangements, ownership of property);
children (for example, attitude and conduct concerning children);
the societal perception of the two as a couple.
This list is a set of elements which, when taken together or in various combinations, may constitute evidence of interdependency. It should be kept in mind that these elements may be present in varying degrees and not all are necessary for a relationship to be considered conjugal.

See section 5.26 of OP 2 for a list of elements and examples of supporting documents which could be taken into consideration.

So the prudent thing to do is to take some evidence of your conjugal relationship, just in case they hassle you about it.

 

[Rob_TO]

So the prudent thing to do is to take some evidence of your conjugal relationship, just in case they hassle you about it.

Yes that would definitely be recommended. But keep in mind the full rule requires 2 things: 1. Be in a conjugal relationship and 2. Cohabit in that conjugal relationship.

So just being in a conjugal relationship but not cohabiting, is still in violation of condition 51.

 

[Ponga]

Yes that would definitely be recommended. But keep in mind the full rule requires 2 things: 1. Be in a conjugal relationship and 2. Cohabit in that conjugal relationship.

So just being in a conjugal relationship but not cohabiting, is still in violation of condition 51.

Agreed.

Unless CIC publishes something to actually give a person with Condition 51 a baseline of what their interpretation of a short separation is ( days? weeks? more?)...it's going to remain a very slippery slope.

 

[CDNPR2014]

You should read this: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2012/ob480.asp
It very clearly states multiple times that CBSA is aware of the conditional PR rules, and is part of the effort to enforce them.

Yes they will see on their system quite easily if a PR has conditional status or not. Whether they decide to investigate condition 51 compliance (perhaps if the PR is traveling alone), is up to them and anyone's guess how they are actually doing things in practice today.

while this may be true on paper. in my experience with CBSA, CBSA agents are not very familiar with the ins and outs of PR status, nor do they ask questions about condition 51, residency obligations, etc. perhaps that's because i'm not usually gone for a long period of time, and perhaps the conversation is different when you are...

 

[Ponga]

while this may be true on paper. in my experience with CBSA, CBSA agents are not very familiar with the ins and outs of PR status, nor do they ask questions about condition 51, residency obligations, etc. perhaps that's because i'm not usually gone for a long period of time, and perhaps the conversation is different when you are...

With all due respect, your experience is probably not a true reflection of how/what CBSA does regarding enforcement of Condition 51.

IMHO, it's not a matter of only being true on paper.

What happens when the OP returns to Canada after a few months and is asked by CBSA why her sponsor is not accompanying her?

 

[CDNPR2014]

With all due respect, your experience is probably not a true reflection of how/what CBSA does regarding enforcement of Condition 51.

IMHO, it's not a matter of only being true on paper.

What happens when the OP returns to Canada after a few months and is asked by CBSA why her sponsor is not accompanying her?

then she tells the truth, has proof of the reason, and deals with the consequences (if there are any). that's really all that can be done.

I honestly have yet to hear a pr being asked why they are traveling separately than their sponsor. i'd be interested in hearing experiences that suggest otherwise...

the major point i'm trying to make is that PR's don't need to be scare about being stripped of their PR status and being refused entry imediately upon arrival in any situation, whether they are meeting RO, Condition 51 or not.

 

[Rob_TO]

while this may be true on paper. in my experience with CBSA, CBSA agents are not very familiar with the ins and outs of PR status, nor do they ask questions about condition 51, residency obligations, etc. perhaps that's because i'm not usually gone for a long period of time, and perhaps the conversation is different when you are...

Tons of people get in trouble with residency obligations with CBSA. You shouldn't use a sample size of 1 (yourself) to predict how CBSA in general treats all travelers.

Though in general I agree the enforcement of condition 51 is probably not very strict compared to RO, especially now that Liberal govt will be removing it anyways.

 

[CDNPR2014]

Tons of people get in trouble with residency obligations with CBSA. You shouldn't use a sample size of 1 (yourself) to predict how CBSA in general treats all travelers.

are they refused entry on the spot?

please direct me to situations where a PR has been refused entry on the spot because they didn't meet RO or condition 51 obligations.

my point isn't that people don't get in trouble. my point is people are not refused entry on the spot and people shouldn't be afraid to live their lives freely (assuming they are not breaking laws). There are plenty of CBSA agents that don't understand the requirements, just as there are plenty that do. if CBSA wants to report it, great. i'm sure they do that plenty. are they going to deny a PR entry on the spot because of this suspicion? my guess is no.

 

[Ponga]

really and are they refused entry on the spot?

please direct me to situations where a PR has been refused entry on the spot because they didn't meet RO or condition 51 obligations.

He never said that the PR was refused entry...on the spot or otherwise.

I suspect that this forum is probably your only source of information regarding CIC, CBSA, Conditional PR, etc., correct? It's a big world out there and CBSA doesn't disclose information [here] as to how they do what they do.

The OP would be allowed to re-enter, because s/he would still have the right as a PR to do so. CBSA may contact CIC to open up that can or worms...which would eventually not be good.

 

[Rob_TO]

are they refused entry on the spot?

please direct me to situations where a PR has been refused entry on the spot because they didn't meet RO or condition 51 obligations.

my point isn't that people don't get in trouble. my point is people are not refused entry on the spot and people shouldn't be afraid to live their lives freely (assuming they are not breaking laws). There are plenty of CBSA agents that don't understand the requirements, just as there are plenty that do. if CBSA wants to report it, great. i'm sure they do that plenty. are they going to deny a PR entry on the spot because of this suspicion? my guess is no.

CBSA can't ever deny entry since there is a right of appeal for any decision they make.

Just being reported though can lead to all sorts of troubles. It happens all the time with those not meeting RO, and people end up losing their PR status shortly after as a direct result.

Same thing with condition 51, nobody wants to be reported and have to face an appeal process through CIC. This can cost people serious time and money if they need to hire a lawyer, with no guarantee of success. THe best bet is to avoid being reported if at all possible.

 

[CDNPR2014]

I suspect that this forum is probably your only source of information regarding CIC, CBSA, Conditional PR, etc., correct? It's a big world out there and CBSA doesn't disclose information [here] as to how they do what they do.

and what's wrong with that? my experience, experience of those on this forum, and experience of newcomers i know from being in canada is where I get my knowledge from. isn't that basically the same as everyone on this forum such as yourself and rob? or are you CIC/CBSA officers in disguise? Just because i am 1 person, doesn't mean i don't know what happens. the same can be said for you all.

The OP would be allowed to re-enter, because she would still have the right as a PR to do so. CBSA may contact CIC to open up that can or worms...which would eventually not be good.

this is exactly my point. i don't understand what all the back and forth is about. at this point, there's nothing more for me to say except that noone needs to be scared about being refused entry immediately upon arrival in canada. and a pr has the right to enter, whether they meet their obligations or not. whatever happens after entry is up to CIC. the end. case closed!

 

[Ponga]

and what's wrong with that? my experience, experience of those on this forum, and experience of newcomers i know from being in canada is where I get my knowledge from. isn't that basically the same as everyone on this forum such as yourself and rob? or are you CIC/CBSA officers in disguise? Just because i am 1 person, doesn't mean i don't know what happens. the same can be said for you all.

this is exactly my point. i don't understand what all the back and forth is about. at this point, there's nothing more for me to say except that noone needs to be scared about being refused entry immediately upon arrival in canada. and a pr has the right to enter, whether they meet their obligations or not. whatever happens after entry is up to CIC. the end. case closed!

The OP never stated that this was a concern, only that s/he could be in violation of the conditional PR. YOU are the one that is talking about it in terms of denial of re-entry into Canada, not us.

 

[CDNPR2014]

The OP never stated that this was a concern, only that s/he could be in violation of the conditional PR. YOU are the one that is talking about it in terms of denial of re-entry into Canada, not us.

actually ponga, i'm not just bringing up the topic, I was responding to this poster below:

I'm probably gonna be in the same situation as Lalalarey and can completely understand the worry.

The reason for it is that I will have to land within the 12 months of the medical exam as far as I understand and getting the PR granted very close to the date that the medical expires is quite possible. The problem is 1: I have to give my landlord 3 month notice, 2: I have to quit my job and 3: I have to figure out how to ship my personal belongings over to Canada. I can't do any of that before I don't know when my PR will be granted. In fact, the CIC website tells you not to quit your job or anything before approval.

Let's say I have a month or so to land. I will have to go to Canada, request my PR card and then leave again for at least 3 months to sort everything out.

I am super worried about this especially since I've read many times now that I shouldn't be leaving for more than 2 weeks after requesting the PR card. The thought of not being able to come back into Canada when I have figured everything out and my stuff is on its way is terribly scary.