Can we talk about condition 51? (Discussion)

[ski]

I'm not following your point? Why would Condition 51 make any difference? Many couples are both working, and the Sponsor should be able to support their partner for the period of time until said partner can find a job. If not then this helps to take the burden off the Canadian taxpayer, as any social assistance is supposed to be paid back etc. Also if someone is living a life at the level of a "high profile job", then the mere pittance of a social assistance amount is not going to help things anyhow.

I'm very much in favor of Condition 51 for many many reasons. The recent US election is 'one' good example, as due to the probability of more than a few that will try and come here purely from political passions, the more hoops you have to jump through the better imo.

My point is about cohabitation - not support. If you have been married for less than two years and don't have children you must live together for two years after being granted PR. Why should you have to live together just to prove you are genuinely married? In this day and age so many couples live and work in different cities.

 

[browning911]

In my opinion if you are in a real relationship why does it bother you? It should stay.

I agree!

 

[LeelaD]

I have no problem with condition 51 but I notice that the opinions on it are based on everyones individual situation and how much they love their partner, I agree it works well to prevent the sponsor being taken advantage of but I do think there should be an ability to appeal it in certain circumstances under compassionate grounds or for the well being of minors.
It's great to say that it doesn't matter because you would probably return to your home country or that you know you will be with your husband/wife/partner for ever but none of us actually knows that for certain, or knows what the future brings, two years *after* receiving PR could potentially mean that as the sponsored person you may well have lived in Canada for five years or more and to say that if you split up with your partner for any reasons prior to that deadline you would have to leave the country and start again is a terrifying prospect for some people.
If I apply that to my situation, I have been living here legally via returns home and visa extensions for almost two years now along with my son (now 4 ) whose father is dead. He now speaks French and has been attending French daycare for sometime, we have really not much connection to our home country now, as we are applying for our sponsorship at this moment(inbound AIP-16 months and 26 months for completion) we will then have lived here for four years+ and then require us to remain together for another two years on top of that or risk our lives being wiped out here.
I too love my partner very much, but I am an adult and I have the sense to understand that not everything is within our control, life can flip on it's side on a dime and I would certainly want the option to have a say in whether or not my son or I could remain in a country that we invested our energy and effort into making our home and culture if anything were ever to happen between my partner and I during that period and I would imagine anyone else with children involved might feel the same?

 

[katdanger]

I'm in favour of condition 51. I think that it deters some fraud, protects Canadian sponsors, and shouldn't be a problem for genuine relationships. But I agree that it is imperfect and needs to be reexamined.

- Someone on this thread suggested there be an info session for the foreign spouse regarding condition 51 and their rights; I think this is a really good idea. I think this should include information about what to do in the case of abuse, specific information about who to call, what to document, safe spaces in their area, etc. I also think al this information needs to be made available in the native language of the foreign spouse. Language should not be a barrier to such crucial information, especially in Canada.

- On the topic of abuse during condition 51, I don't think removing the condition is the answer, I do think that the way it is dealt with needs to be looked at. (That info session just being a small part of addressing this problem). I'm not the right person to comment further on how this should be changed.

- Though I am also of the opinion that if you move to a country in order to live with your spouse and they turn abusive and the relationship ends as a result you should move back to you country. I'm currently living in my husband's country and even though I have a job here, sense of community, friends, hobbies, etc. I would return to Canada if our relationship fell apart. That being said, if you've been in the country a certain amount of time and established yourself in your new country (work, friends, hobbies, community, etc.) and severed ties in your home country, I think you should be able to stay. (Obviously a system/standard would have to be created to determine eligibility in these cases).

-I also believe that exceptions should be made for people that are in genuine relationships but for certain reasons, like education or work, need to live separately. What if the Canadian spouse is deployed, either spouse works in an industry that requires them to be away for long periods of time, or even spouses that find employment opportunities in different cities, or are admitted to educational institutions in different cities? I think there should be either some clearly outlined exemptions or a body that determines if certain situations require an exemption from the condition. Still on this point I think it would be fair to require the couple to have to continue to prove the genuineness of their relationship during the time they would be living under condition 51.

TL;DR
Condition 51 is good the majority of the time, how we deal with the cases in which it is not good is what should be assessed and changed.

 

[SaskinSeoul]

I agree with condition 51 and you should lose you PR status if you divorce your spouse without reason. Marriage fraud is no laughing matter. If you get sponsored to come to Canada and cheat on your spouse or realize your relationship is over mutually than pack your bags. Canada isn't a free haven for people.

If I want to be a kiwi can I marry a kiwi for PR and wait till there are no penalties and then divorce them and bring my family to kiwi land?

 

[Hasan9999]

Initially I thought condition 51 is essentially a very good measure to reduce marriage fraud as far as Canadian spousal immigration is concerned...but after going through some discussions here, now I realise that there should be some kind of flexibility on justified grounds...cuz every case is unique in nature! A well framed safety net is also necessary to make sure that marriage of convenience is not taking place while obtaining spousal immigration.


Hasan

 

[Chasingthestarts]

I think everything has two sides , so does condition 51. It's good for preventing Canadians from being taken advantage or fraud marriages. But what about the sponsored person who didn't not anticipate that a relationship would fall apart after receiving the conditional PR ?

It's not just that " if the relationship is genuine, then you have nothing to fear of " But be realistic, relationships can unfortunately go wrong without involving abusive actions either physically and mentally. It can be simply just one of them falls out of love.

My bottom line is that, a sponsored person should at least has the right to choose whether to go back to a home country or stay in Canada ( being able to support yourselves & dependents)

 

[methyl]

Initially I thought condition 51 is essentially a very good measure to reduce marriage fraud as far as Canadian spousal immigration is concerned...but after going through some discussions here, now I realise that there should be some kind of flexibility on justified grounds...cuz every case is unique in nature!

There is flexibility - there were exceptions in policy, for example if a sponsored spouse is being abused, etc.

 

[automaton82]

My spouse is under Condition 51, and I think it's a good thing to ensure that illegitimate couples think twice before attempting to 'game' the system.

That being said... I have not heard of a single case, ever, where CIC agents actually came to 'check' about Condition 51. So unless I'm mistaken, it's just a BS threat at this point. So unless they enforce it properly, I think it's basically as good as not being there at all.