Can we talk about condition 51? (Discussion)

[hyper]

I think anyone complaining about condition 51 is a fraud.. If you really love your spouse/partner, you shouldn't worry whether you have any condition in your immigration status.. My partner is in another country right now bcos we are still in the process of my application but we are still very happy together.. I think condition 51 is a good idea and it should not be removed..

 

[madubyk]

From a different perspective....

My husband and I are still in our early 20's and attending university. After a year together in Montreal I have to leave cross country to finish my studies because theres no english program for my studies in Quebec (where my husband lives and is from). So our relationship is genuine and we will stay together and committed, but it leaves us at risk. Putting education on hold just in case we are chosen at random for proof of cohabitation is frustrating. :'(

 

[yamgia]

I think condition 51 is a good thing, yet it's really flawed at the same time. It has it's pro's and cons and I don't think they should remove it, but modify it instead to make it less flawed. I agree that people who are in a abusive relationship (especially mental abusive relationship, since it can be harder to prove) are pretty much screwed by condition 51. But condition 51 helps those sponsors who just get used by their partner, and in a lot of cases if the relationship doesn't work out, why should you stay in Canada then? But at the same time it's unfair for the people who are in a abusive relationship (or people from certain cultures getting in trouble when they go back, unless he/she used the sponsor) to be screwed over by a condition 51.

Long story short, I think they should keep condition 51, but modify it more so it also protects the applicant.

 

[Galano1213]

I agree with what you have said to a degree however regarding abuse there are laws in place to protect people against that already in Canada. So keep condition 51. It is needed.

 

[JJ416]

It is true it protects the sponsor, but it also places a vulnerable position on the sponsored person.

Imagine a spouse arrives in Canada and has to endure an abusive relationship because he/she is fearful they may be sent back. It is dangerous.

The government says if the sponsored person can show proof of abuse, the condition will be removed.

We all know most sponsored persons have very limited resources and limited language. It will be very difficult and almost impossible for many to have the ability to report an abuse in their new country.

So they endure 24 months of abuse!

Is that fair?

 

[keesio]

It is true it protects the sponsor, but it also places a vulnerable position on the sponsored person.

Imagine a spouse arrives in Canada and has to endure an abusive relationship because he/she is fearful they may be sent back. It is dangerous.

The government says if the sponsored person can show proof of abuse, the condition will be removed.

We all know most sponsored persons have very limited resources and limited language. It will be very difficult and almost impossible for many to have the ability to report an abuse in their new country.

So they endure 24 months of abuse!

Is that fair?

Condition 51 is fairly new so there isn't a large sample size of data on the effect. But so far it seems that the number of people deported under Condition 51 is quite small and there have been several successful outcomes of people getting the condition waived under the "abuse" exception.

 

[Nyhiraba]

When the PA is granted PR, there should be a package or information about condition 51 and the circumstances in which it can be lifted. A condition 51 session for all PAs. If the PA is in Canada only because of the sponsor then if the marriage does not work out they should be more than happy to leave.

But even with all of this education, fraudsters will always scam the system. I am sure some fraudsters will live with the sponsor for 2 years and leave once they get PR.

If condition 51 protects the majority; and I think in this case it does, we should maintain it. No rule protects everybody in society. If the majority are protected we should take it as is and work out the kinks.

 

[simpsol22]

Yes, I agree with both your points. However, the people in abusive relationships will frequently not know how to exercise this right.

Mainly posting for people who may come across this formum looking for help...

Quotes from: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/family-sponsorship.asp

"If you are a victim of abuse or neglect, you do not have to remain in an abusive situation. It does not matter whether the conditional permanent residence measure applies to you. In Canada, abuse is not tolerated. All physical and sexual abuse is a crime."

"In Canada, abuse is not tolerated. You do not have to remain in an abusive situation. Help is available: by phone, in person and online." CIC Call Centre at 1-888-242-2100

Call the CIC call center

 

[Snowisland]

I landed in May and have Condition 51. I don't care. I think it's good to protect the sponsor from marriage fraud.

 

[StormForce]

At first I was against it cause I heard persons tell me when I move I couldn't get medical care or anything the government would offer a regular PR then I did my research. In my opinion if you are in a real relationship why does it bother you? It should stay.

 

[Evadyrrehs]

Here's my take on Condition 51.. There have been some here saying it's unfair because the sponsored person can have it used against them if they find themselves in an abusive relationship once they're here in Canada etc etc.. My thoughts are if you come to Canada and it ends up your relationship turns sour or abusive, then you should leave and go back home.. To me it shows that it wasn't so much the person you were here for, but the country, if you cannot or will not go back to your home country after a failed relationship early in. If I had gone to my wife's country instead of her coming here, and she was abusive or cheating or etc etc, I'd come back home to Canada as I would have only went there for her and our relationship in the first place.


On another note: I remember before people said to mark down on your calendar when condition 51 expires, because just before it does you need to contact CIC and do something??? I can't seem to find where people were saying that, is it true?? Or do you just go about your life and CIC will automatically take the condition off on the expiry date? Our condition 51 two year expiry date is this coming June..

Thanks for any input

 

[scylla]

On another note: I remember before people said to mark down on your calendar when condition 51 expires, because just before it does you need to contact CIC and do something??? I can't seem to find where people were saying that, is it true?? Or do you just go about your life and CIC will automatically take the condition off on the expiry date? Our condition 51 two year expiry date is this coming June..

Thanks for any input

There's nothing you need to do and no one to contact. Just go about your life as normal - it automatically expires.

 

[Evadyrrehs]

There's nothing you need to do and no one to contact. Just go about your life as normal - it automatically expires.

Thank you for the info scylla! 8) That's great news and easy peasy, yay! ;D

 

[ski]

The other aspect to this is that nowadays all young married couples work. The sponsored person isn't just washing dishes in their home country waiting for PR to be approved. My wife has a high profile job and will want a similar job as soon as she gets here. The question is what happens if she doesn't get one? It is highly likely that we may continue living in separate countries/cities until both of us get a job in the same city. This condition is something that we need to worry about.

 

[Evadyrrehs]

The other aspect to this is that nowadays all young married couples work. The sponsored person isn't just washing dishes in their home country waiting for PR to be approved. My wife has a high profile job and will want a similar job as soon as she gets here. The question is what happens if she doesn't get one? It is highly likely that we may continue living in separate countries/cities until both of us get a job in the same city. This condition is something that we need to worry about.

I'm not following your point? Why would Condition 51 make any difference? Many couples are both working, and the Sponsor should be able to support their partner for the period of time until said partner can find a job. If not then this helps to take the burden off the Canadian taxpayer, as any social assistance is supposed to be paid back etc. Also if someone is living a life at the level of a "high profile job", then the mere pittance of a social assistance amount is not going to help things anyhow.

I'm very much in favor of Condition 51 for many many reasons. The recent US election is 'one' good example, as due to the probability of more than a few that will try and come here purely from political passions, the more hoops you have to jump through the better imo.