Called CIC today and got starnge answer

[mf4361]

@Marlee

I respect that Canadians should have been prioritized over foreigners, and I am accepting the fact that LMIA is required regardless of everything.

I did not say foreign national deserves to stay forever just because they have a Canadian degree. I've never said that. I said foreign nationals who have experiences in Canada and have a high-skilled, permanent job deserves to be put in better position than foreigners who owns the same skillset, but have never lived here before. (I'm speaking for all prospective CEC, not only PGWP)

@omaus25
I say that only because the pessimistic side of me kicks in and prepares my mind for the worst.

 

[omaus25]

@ Marlee

I respect that Canadians should have been prioritized over foreigners, and I am accepting the fact that LMIA is required regardless of everything.

I did not say foreign national deserves to stay forever just because they have a Canadian degree. I've never said that. I said foreign nationals who have experiences in Canada and have a high-skilled, permanent job deserves to be put in better position than foreigners who owns the same skillset, but have never lived here before. (I'm speaking for all prospective CEC, not only PGWP)

@ omaus25
I say that only because the pessimistic side of me kicks in and prepares my mind for the worst.

lol, good point...

but makes me curious though, "...I said foreign nationals who have experiences in Canada and have a high-skilled, permanent job deserves to be put in better position than foreigners"..., I agree with you 100%, but if this is the case, why is going to be so difficult for these high skilled professionals to obtain the sponsorship for LMIA? Why employers would be so obtuse? This part is the one that drives me crazy....

 

[praneet87]

Excellent point!

Remember that points are granted for Canadian Experience and Canadian Education as well under EE.

No points for education. Only experience.

Now, CIC is almost saying to Canadian employers,"If you want to hire permanent employees, don't hire PGWP because you will run into troubles with us later, go with someone who have never lived here, has a foreign degree and (most importantly) with no Canadian experience."

Isn't the whole point of CEC is retaining talents in high skilled trades, who have also embraced the Canadian culture and lifestyle? Now they are making TFW & FSW program easier than CEC, isn't it breaks the whole purpose of it?

This is so weird. I spoke to the HR yesterday and they said that when they need to get an LMIA - only thing need to prove is that they had the job up on the board for a designated period of time and the guy with the PGWP won the interview over others (locals and PGWP holders) and got the job. This is enough to prove that they did not find anyone local and hence hired me.

Now very very niche jobs will need the companies to hire from outside. One needs to remember that companies like hiring locally because of the ease of the interview process. Interviewing someone overseas means either they do it over Skype (which employers don't like) or fly them in (which is added costs). Unless the jobs are very special and nice employers aren't going anywhere except local markets. Now added to this there is the whole LMIA which again is a put off for employers. This means that the bulk of people applying to EE will not have LMIA. Which means having an LMIA is pretty much guaranteed an ITA. Adding to this they increased the cap which is again good news.

But even if everything works fine; they fucked over International Students and PGWP Holders. This whole EE process was implemented with no provision or regard for students who spend 3x the fees and study here. Before anyone replies to my post saying Canada is not entitled to give us a PR, then what is the point of the CEC.

 

[omaus25]

No points for education. Only experience.

This is so weird. I spoke to the HR yesterday and they said that when they need to get an LMIA - only thing need to prove is that they had the job up on the board for a designated period of time and the guy with the PGWP won the interview over others (locals and PGWP holders) and got the job. This is enough to prove that they did not find anyone local and hence hired me.

Now very very niche jobs will need the companies to hire from outside. One needs to remember that companies like hiring locally because of the ease of the interview process. Interviewing someone overseas means either they do it over Skype (which employers don't like) or fly them in (which is added costs). Unless the jobs are very special and nice employers aren't going anywhere except local markets. Now added to this there is the whole LMIA which again is a put off for employers. This means that the bulk of people applying to EE will not have LMIA. Which means having an LMIA is pretty much guaranteed an ITA. Adding to this they increased the cap which is again good news.

But even if everything works fine; they *censored word*ed over International Students and PGWP Holders. This whole EE process was implemented with no provision or regard for students who spend 3x the fees and study here. Before anyone replies to my post saying Canada is not entitled to give us a PR, then what is the point of the CEC.

I think that the all point here is how you guys phrase your frustration, believe me, we get it. we understand this loophole that makes no sense with people with lives already there, education already there... I do understand what you are saying, but making the statements made here are out of context within the logic on the independence and autonomy of any society... any country, don't you think?

 

[praneet87]

lol, good point...

but makes me curious though, "...I said foreign nationals who have experiences in Canada and have a high-skilled, permanent job deserves to be put in better position than foreigners"..., I agree with you 100%, but if this is the case, why is going to be so difficult for these high skilled professionals to obtain the sponsorship for LMIA? Why employers would be so obtuse? This part is the one that drives me crazy....

Hi Omaus25,

Mid sized companies and small sized companies will probably oblige. This is strictly because their employee pool is smaller and will have to deal with 10-15 PGWP workers a year. Luckily they waived the 1000$ dollar fee, so its all the more likey they will do it. I work for a company for 300 people in Toronto and considering it is smaller my manager has a say here. So if he requests for an LMIA, it will be done.

Now my friend, who I consider to be smarter and more established works for a large tech firm (IBM, SAP, Microsoft) and when he was offered his position it was clearly stated that the company will not entertain any LMIA or LMOs. The employee needs to take care of his assimilation on his own. A company like IBM or RBC hires anywhere between 70-100 PGWP workers a year. The amount of extra added paper work is not something they want.

You my friend are experienced and are definitely an valued asset, so if a company has chosen to hire you over the border then an LMIA for you is no issue. But for us, new grads no one will want to go through the pain. I am sure maybe in a couple of years it will be commonplace for larger companies to give LMIAs since there is no cost but atleast for the initial years it will harder for new grad PGWP holders to get a job.

Yes I agree that Canada will provide for their own citizens and residents first BUT Canada is a country that heavily relies on immigration and thinking that the country does a favor on immigrants is just very very ignorant thinking. If you are on this website then you at one point were an immigrant too. Just because you are on the other side of the line doesn't make you any better.

 

[Froze950]

Hello Guys,

Just wanted to ask if there are any points for CANADIAN EDUCATION??

 

[bambooshka]

It makes perfect sense to me that they took this measurement in order to satisfy their own workforce's needs first.

...

If there is no demand for your profession the state will have to pay you welfare once you are a PR. Obviously Canada is not interested in that.

...

I am working in translations here which neither matches my university degrees nor does it fulfill me personally.

Oh the dripping irony here. In three sentences. Paint me green and call me an avocado. I have seen it all. Another Canadian government failure, people.

If Canadian government was so protective,why would they give PGWP's in itself. What is so hard to grasp about this? Neither has immigration been reduced, nor FSWP or CEC cap decreased. So how exactly are we protecting Canadians first? With an LMO? Great work.

 

[praneet87]

Oh the dripping irony here. In three sentences. Paint me green and call me an avocado. I have seen it all. Another Canadian government failure, people.

If Canadian government was so protective,why would they give PGWP's in itself. What is so hard to grasp about this? Neither has immigration being reduced, nor FSWP or CEC cap decreased. So how exactly are we protecting Canadians first? With an LMO? Great work.

Pretentious people acting pretentious, nothing else.

 

[mf4361]

lol, good point...

but makes me curious though, "...I said foreign nationals who have experiences in Canada and have a high-skilled, permanent job deserves to be put in better position than foreigners"..., I agree with you 100%, but if this is the case, why is going to be so difficult for these high skilled professionals to obtain the sponsorship for LMIA? Why employers would be so obtuse? This part is the one that drives me crazy....

@omaus25 @praneet87

I try to walk in the shoes of Canadian employers.

i would think they hate doing immigration paperworks because of their liabilities (and simply the extra work). If they mess up, they are on the hook. And companies hate paying extras to hire a immigration consultant. Even paperworks are done right, there is still no guarantee for +ve LMO/LMIA. And they don't want to turnover an employee that they trained for months, knowing s/he is gonna have to leave. Also proving to ESDC why rejecting Canadians over a foreign national is not easy. (Just telling them he's better than all Canadians we've met, is that gonna work?)

For large companies, they don't care if they lose some job candidates because they have so many to choose from. Not so much for small companies, so chances are they have no choice but to hire foreign nationals.

Now with the $1000 fee gone, I would think there is something different in their criteria than the TFW LMIA. (Or else that is like saying the fee is really not to cover the cost of examining the job, but to gouge employers who want to hire TFW)

 

[Marlee]

Oh the dripping irony here. In three sentences. Paint me green and call me an avocado. I have seen it all. Another Canadian government failure, people.

I am stating my own situation as an example of very limited options over here. Many people come here expecting to immediately get the job of their dreams and making lots of money. Unfortunately these are exceptional cases.

I have a nursing degree and nurses are indeed in high demand. However, just like the majority of all professions, nursing is a regulated profession, meaning you will have to join the coherent union before being allowed to work in Canada. The unions only accept permanent residents. Of course, I could have stayed in Germany waiting for a job offer and then applied from abroad. Nurses are in extremely high demand here so there is no doubt I would have gotten a job offer and a positive LMIA quite soon. HOWEVER, I decided to not return after my working holiday visa expired but to stay here in Canada.

Not being a PR yet and trying to find a decent job is equal to coming here with qualifications which are not in demand at the present. For someone like me who does not care about temporarily stagnating career-wise, because I know it is only for a limited amount of time, it does not matter. It does not matter because getting a job in nursing as soon as I get my PR is a guaranteed thing. If you are a university graduate with a degree that is not needed in general however, there is no point in staying here for you. Even if the state allowed you to stay - what would your options be? Working in a low-skilled job, hoping for the job market to change one day and eventually ending up working at Tim Hortons all your life? Going back to university to study something that is high in demand?

 

[praneet87]

Also proving to ESDC why rejecting Canadians over a foreign national is not easy. (Just telling them he's better than all Canadians we've met, is that gonna work?)

This is how it has been working for Temporary Working Visa extensions. This is a formality, it is not so strict. LMOs/LMIAs have been happening long before EE. I agree you have to pass certain criteria like median wage, a certain amount of effort to make a fair hiring process. LMIAs are mostly put into place to make sure that people doing random 2 year courses from colleges don't get a PR by just working a minimum wage job.

It is not in place to keep immigrants out.

 

[Phil89]

I am stating my own situation as an example of very limited options over here. Many people come here expecting to immediately get the job of their dreams and making lots of money. Unfortunately these are exceptional cases.

I have a nursing degree and nurses are indeed in high demand. However, just like the majority of all professions, nursing is a regulated profession, meaning you will have to join the coherent union before being allowed to work in Canada. The unions only accept permanent residents. Of course, I could have stayed in Germany waiting for a job offer and then applied from abroad. Nurses are in extremely high demand here so there is no doubt I would have gotten a job offer and a positive LMIA quite soon. HOWEVER, I decided to not return after my working holiday visa expired but to stay here in Canada.

Not being a PR yet and trying to find a decent job is equal to coming here with qualifications which are not in demand at the present. For someone like me who does not care about temporarily stagnating career-wise, because I know it is only for a limited amount of time, it does not matter. It does not matter because getting a job in nursing as soon as I get my PR is a guaranteed thing. If you are a university graduate with a degree that is not needed in general however, there is no point in staying here for you. Even if the state allowed you to stay - what would your options be? Working in a low-skilled job, hoping for the job market to change one day and eventually ending up working at Tim Hortons all your life? Going back to university to study something that is high in demand?

Aren't you working as a translator now? And it's not even related to your education...so what is your benefit to Canada? Yes, nurses are in a big demand in Canada, but trust me, there are enough people to cover the demand already. Your LMIA is not guaranteed. Even if you receive your PR, you will have to go back to school cause as you said it's a regulated profession unless you wanna wipe asses for the rest of your life.

 

[Regina]

why is going to be so difficult for these high skilled professionals to obtain the sponsorship for LMIA? Why employers would be so obtuse?

Because there are enough high-skilled Canadian citizens and permanent residents. Employer does not need to bother with paying money and collecting document to find a high skilled Canadian. That's why. You will see when EE starts that almoost nobody in occupations in NOC 0,A,B will get job offer (and LMIA).

It could happen to medical workers, IT and let's say, mining engineers. And all those jobs will be in out of the way places.

 

[curious_123]

Oh damn...this topic just filled up so quickly...so are you still discussing if LMIA is required for PGWP to get the 600 points.... guys i have PGWP and lets accept the fact that we require LMIA to get those 600 points...

-but i dont think you will need LMIA to apply under CEC...you just need 1 year of experience under NOC O A B (I will try to call CIC today)

ALSO, it is their country, we are just foreign worker who is earning a lot of money. I am sure you wont get that much money in your home country...plus Canada gave was world class education..what ever rule they bring on ..we have to respect it and move on....

 

[praneet87]

I am stating my own situation as an example of very limited options over here. Many people come here expecting to immediately get the job of their dreams and making lots of money. Unfortunately these are exceptional cases.

I have a nursing degree and nurses are indeed in high demand. However, just like the majority of all professions, nursing is a regulated profession, meaning you will have to join the coherent union before being allowed to work in Canada. The unions only accept permanent residents. Of course, I could have stayed in Germany waiting for a job offer and then applied from abroad. Nurses are in extremely high demand here so there is no doubt I would have gotten a job offer and a positive LMIA quite soon. HOWEVER, I decided to not return after my working holiday visa expired but to stay here in Canada.

Not being a PR yet and trying to find a decent job is equal to coming here with qualifications which are not in demand at the present. For someone like me who does not care about temporarily stagnating career-wise, because I know it is only for a limited amount of time, it does not matter. It does not matter because getting a job in nursing as soon as I get my PR is a guaranteed thing. If you are a university graduate with a degree that is not needed in general however, there is no point in staying here for you. Even if the state allowed you to stay - what would your options be? Working in a low-skilled job, hoping for the job market to change one day and eventually ending up working at Tim Hortons all your life? Going back to university to study something that is high in demand?

Only looking at one side of the coin. What about the students who worked engineering degrees that ARE in demand? Business degrees that ARE in demand? Computer Science degrees which are pretty much always in demand. What about them? This LMIA for 600 points hurts them now doesn't it?