Born outside Canada to CDN parent who was also born outside of Canada - Clarify?

[alphazip]

Hello
I'm sorry becouse I write here.
The situation is similar to my. It turned out that my father (born 1950 in Montenegro) has a right to Canadian citizenship, because my Grandfather was born 1922 in Canada.
He wants to apply for Canadian citizenship.
I wonder when my Father becomes a Canadian citizen, what are my options for example to be permanent resident or the right of citizenship maybe I have?
Is there any benefits in procedure for me, because my father is Canadian citizen and I am his Son (born 1985)?
Also brother of my Great-grandfather gave his life for Canada in the First World War 102nd Battalion. A grateful nation recognizes his sacrifise every year on June 13th when page 266 from the Book of Remembrance of the First World War is displayed for public viewing in the Memorial Chamber of the Parliament of Canada.
What is my best way to get an entry visa for me? If you can help me with well-intentioned advice?
Thanks in advance

Yes, your father is a Canadian citizen. However, you are not, because you are in the 2nd generation born outside of Canada. If your father had known, he had from 1977-2004 to register his birth and become Canadian. In that case, you would now be a Canadian, too. However, since he did not, he just became a Canadian citizen on April 17, 2009, at which time citizenship by descent was restricted to the first generation. Although you were born before 2009, your father was not a Canadian citizen when you were born. As Leon wrote, though, you're certainly free to apply and see what happens.

 

[VermiciousKnish]

Your kids are small so you still have plenty of time. When they are 18, you can ask them if they'd be interested in getting PR and going to college in Canada. I believe it's cheaper than the US too. If they'd want, you can sponsor them for PR at that point. They go do college in Canada. Stay long enough to apply for citizenship on their own and voila.

How would that scenario work?? As a sponsor for my 18 year old, I would have to prove that I intend to move to Canada as well. Also, is it not true that once your child reaches the age of 18 Are they no longer considered "dependant" and can no longer be sponsored?

 

[cempjwi]

So for argument's sake, let's suppose they apply outland for sponsorship of wife and children (or even just children). They submit proof that they will return to live in Canada with school acceptance letters (children were born after 2009 so presumably (ya never know!) they won't have job offers or rental leases). They are accepted as PR while they are still living in USA. They come back, to land in Canada and receive their PR status. They then apply for citizenship that same day.

Suppose they now travel back and forth while waiting for citizenship certificate but they never really establish themselves in Canada. What's to stop them from taking this route? If they don't need residency requirement to apply for citizenship after becoming PR's, then technically they do not ever have to live in Canada!

The process is available for the non-Canadian wife and the children at any time as long as the children are minors (and immigration law does not change); so, if Trump destroys the US it would have to be done within the next 8 years for that family to flee. Another thing to consider in that scheme is the wife. While the children will become Canadian citizens relatively quick, current Canadian law will prevent the wife from becoming a Canadian citizen until she meets the citizenship requirements, which are in a nutshell a minimum of 6 months in each of the 4 years in the 6 years preceding the application, totaling at least 1460 days present in Canada, file taxes even if zero income, and a promise to remain in Canada after becoming a citizen.

 

[Leon]

How would that scenario work?? As a sponsor for my 18 year old, I would have to prove that I intend to move to Canada as well. Also, is it not true that once your child reaches the age of 18 Are they no longer considered "dependant" and can no longer be sponsored?

You still have to prove moving to Canada today as well so that wouldn't change. However, you wouldn't be applying for citizenship for them and then taking off. They'd land with their PR and actually live in Canada. Dependent child according to immigration is under 19. The age of majority in Canada is 18 in some provinces and 19 in some. However, an 18 year old who is in college may live alone in any province.

 

[Cosmosis]

Yes, your father is a Canadian citizen. However, you are not, because you are in the 2nd generation born outside of Canada. If your father had known, he had from 1977-2004 to register his birth and become Canadian. In that case, you would now be a Canadian, too. However, since he did not, he just became a Canadian citizen on April 17, 2009, at which time citizenship by descent was restricted to the first generation. Although you were born before 2009, your father was not a Canadian citizen when you were born. As Leon wrote, though, you're certainly free to apply and see what happens.

Thank you very much for your and Leon encouraging suggestion.

My father was sent the documents to his lawyer in Canada two days ago. How long is the procedure to get a Canadian citizenship? Average months?

 

[alphazip]

Thank you very much for your and Leon encouraging suggestion.

My father was sent the documents to his lawyer in Canada two days ago. How long is the procedure to get a Canadian citizenship? Average months?

Your father already has Canadian citizenship. What he is applying for is proof of citizenship. The processing time is given as five months, but some cases are processed more quickly and others take longer.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/proof-after.asp

If your father needs his proof of citizenship for a specific and urgent reason, he can also apply for urgent processing, which is faster:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/urgent-proof.asp

 

[Coffee1981]

Why bother having your children to get PR / citizenship if you have no intention of actually moving and settling in Canada.

You have already shown no interest in settling in canada when you and your parents have not even bothered to move back despite being born outside canada. Right now you have 3 generations of canadians of born abroad (your parent/yourself/your first born) that have shown no desire to move back to canada or have any solid connection to Canada at all. You seems only interested in having all your children getting canadian citizenship for conveniences sake.

You are one of the reasons the government changed citizenship laws to limit passing of citizenship to 2nd generation born abroad.

This X1,000... quit daydreaming ways to screw Canada over and use our passport as some sort of convenience tool. If we have to suffer through the winters, so should you. You either belong to our country and our society or you don't.

 

[Cosmosis]

Question for alphazip.

When he get his proof, what is his next step to get Canadian passport? Where he could do it? I suppose in Canadian embassy?

 

[Leon]

Question for alphazip.

When he get his proof, what is his next step to get Canadian passport? Where he could do it? I suppose in Canadian embassy?

He would follow the instructions here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/passport/apply/new/index.asp If he is outside Canada and the US, he would apply through the embassy which still doesn't mean he'd have to go there. He can also mail his application.

 

[Yazanm]

I want to share my experience regarding the same topic :

In summary, my Father and his siblings were granted Canadian citizenship by descent in 2013 (by applying for a proof of citizenship - citizenship certificate) through my Grandfather as a result of the April, 2009 amendments to the Citizenship Act which granted Canadian Citizenship to “Lost Canadian” that were born outside Canada before 1947 from a parent who was also born outside Canada.

At a later stage, my self, siblings and cousins have applied for a “proof of citizenship” in order to obtain citizenship. However, some of us (6) have received their citizenship certificates while others' applications were denied stating that there is a limitation on passing Citizenship to second generation born outside Canada as per Bill C-24 as shown in the attached document.

Considering that my self and all my cousins were all born before 2009 and outside Canada, I could not find any logical explanation why some were granted and others not , and apparently decisions made are totally based on the judgement of the Citizenship officer who handled the application.

 

[alphazip]

I want to share my experience regarding the same topic :

In summary, my Father and his siblings were granted Canadian citizenship by descent in 2013 (by applying for a proof of citizenship - citizenship certificate) through my Grandfather as a result of the April, 2009 amendments to the Citizenship Act which granted Canadian Citizenship to “Lost Canadian” that were born outside Canada before 1947 from a parent who was also born outside Canada.

At a later stage, my self, siblings and cousins have applied for a “proof of citizenship” in order to obtain citizenship. However, some of us (6) have received their citizenship certificates while others' applications were denied stating that there is a limitation on passing Citizenship to second generation born outside Canada as per Bill C-24 as shown in the attached document.

Considering that my self and all my cousins were all born before 2009 and outside Canada, I could not find any logical explanation why some were granted and others not , and apparently decisions made are totally based on the judgement of the Citizenship officer who handled the application.

Yazanm, in order to try to figure out what happened with the various applications, it would help to know specific dates of birth. It appears that the original Canadian-born person was your grandfather, and he was born before 1947. Your father and his siblings were born outside Canada in what years? You and your cousins were born outside Canada in what years? For those born outside Canada between 1947 and 1977, were any of the births registered with Canadian authorities? Also, indicate which grandchildren did NOT receive certificates. Example:

Grandfather: born in Canada in 1930
Son 1: born outside Canada in 1950
Daughter of Son 1: born outside Canada in 1970. Received certificate?: NO

 

[Yazanm]

Yazanm, in order to try to figure out what happened with the various applications, it would help to know specific dates of birth. It appears that the original Canadian-born person was your grandfather, and he was born before 1947. Your father and his siblings were born outside Canada in what years? You and your cousins were born outside Canada in what years? For those born outside Canada between 1947 and 1977, were any of the births registered with Canadian authorities? Also, indicate which grandchildren did NOT receive certificates. Example:

Grandfather: born in Canada in 1930
Son 1: born outside Canada in 1950
Daughter of Son 1: born outside Canada in 1970. Received certificate?: NO

Hi alphazip,

The details are as follows:
- Grandfather was born out of Canada in 1886 and naturalized in Canada in 1910 and left Canada in 1925.
- All Sons were born outside Canada and never been to Canada or registered as Canadians.

- Case1: Son 1 was born in 1935, was granted Citizenship in 2013, He Has 3 Children :
-Son of Son 1 born outside Canada in 1968. Received Certificate: No.
-Daughter of Son 1 born outside Canada in 1974. Received Certificate: No.
-Daughter of Son 1 born outside Canada in 1980. Received Certificate: Yes.

- Case2: Son 2 was born in 1936, was granted Citizenship in 2013, He Has 3 Children :
-Son of Son 2 born outside Canada in 1968. Received Certificate: Yes.
-Son of Son 2 born outside Canada in 1970. Received Certificate: Yes.
-Daughter of Son 2 born outside Canada in 1966. Received Certificate: Yes.

- Case3: Son 3 was born in 1942, was granted Citizenship in 2013, He Has 4 Children :
-Son of Son 3 born outside Canada in 1979. Received Certificate: No.
-Son of Son 3 born outside Canada in 1981. Received Certificate: No.
-Daughter of Son 3 born outside Canada in 1986. Received Certificate: No.
-Daughter of Son 3 born outside Canada in 1987. Received Certificate: No.

 

[alphazip]

Hi alphazip,

The details are as follows:
- Grandfather was born out of Canada in 1886 and naturalized in Canada in 1910 and left Canada in 1925.
- All Sons were born outside Canada and never been to Canada or registered as Canadians.

- Case1: Son 1 was born in 1935, was granted Citizenship in 2013, He Has 3 Children :
-Son of Son 1 born outside Canada in 1968. Received Certificate: No.
-Daughter of Son 1 born outside Canada in 1974. Received Certificate: No.
-Daughter of Son 1 born outside Canada in 1980. Received Certificate: Yes.

- Case2: Son 2 was born in 1936, was granted Citizenship in 2013, He Has 3 Children :
-Son of Son 2 born outside Canada in 1968. Received Certificate: Yes.
-Son of Son 2 born outside Canada in 1970. Received Certificate: Yes.
-Daughter of Son 2 born outside Canada in 1966. Received Certificate: Yes.

- Case3: Son 3 was born in 1942, was granted Citizenship in 2013, He Has 4 Children :
-Son of Son 3 born outside Canada in 1979. Received Certificate: No.
-Son of Son 3 born outside Canada in 1981. Received Certificate: No.
-Daughter of Son 3 born outside Canada in 1986. Received Certificate: No.
-Daughter of Son 3 born outside Canada in 1987. Received Certificate: No.

Yazanm, I thought that I might be able to see a logical pattern in the issuance of citizenship certificates to members of your family, but I have to admit that I cannot.

For example, the child of Son 1 (born 1935), who was born in 1968, was refused a certificate, yet the child of Son 2 (born 1936) who was born in the same year was issued one.

For the grandchildren to have inherited Canadian citizenship, in addition to having had to be born before April 17, 2009, at least one of their parents had to have been a Canadian citizen at the time of their birth. Under the original Citizenship Act:

1) Your grandfather would have ceased to be a British subject and would not have inherited Canadian citizenship in 1947 if he became a citizen of any non-British country before 1947.

2) If he did not, and your father and uncles became Canadian citizens in 1947, they would have ceased to be Canadian citizens if they were living outside Canada on their 22nd (later changed to 24th) birthday.

So, if the three sons just became Canadian citizens on April 17, 2009, and were not citizens when their children were born (in 1966, 1968, 1970, 1974, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1986, and 1987), then none of the grandchildren should actually have been issued citizenship certificates.

 

[Yazanm]

Yazanm, I thought that I might be able to see a logical pattern in the issuance of citizenship certificates to members of your family, but I have to admit that I cannot.

For example, the child of Son 1 (born 1935), who was born in 1968, was refused a certificate, yet the child of Son 2 (born 1936) was issued one.

For the grandchildren to have inherited Canadian citizenship, in addition to having had to be born before April 17, 2009, at least one of their parents had to have been a Canadian citizen at the time of their birth. Under the original Citizenship Act:

1) Your grandfather would have ceased to be a British subject and would not have inherited Canadian citizenship in 1947 if he became a citizen of any non-British country before 1947.

2) If he did not, and your father and uncles became Canadian citizens in 1947, they would have ceased to be Canadian citizens if they were living outside Canada on their 22nd (later changed to 24th) birthday.

So, if the three sons just became Canadian citizens on April 17, 2009, and were not citizens when their children were born (in 1966, 1968, 1970, 1974, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1986, and 1987), then none of the grandchildren should actually have been issued citizenship certificates.

Hi alphzip,

I totally agree with with, it does not make sense at all.

Do you think it is worth to try to apply for an appeal and mention the cases of siblings that were granted citizenship and request for an equal treatment?

Thanks

 

[scylla]

Hi alphzip,

I totally agree with with, it does not make sense at all.

Do you think it is worth to try to apply for an appeal and mention the cases of siblings that were granted citizenship and request for an equal treatment?

Thanks

They won't grant citizenship to people who do not qualify based on a fairness argument. If anything, they will revisit the decisions where citizenship was granted incorrectly and retract the certificates.