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Bill C-6: Senate stage

spiritsoul

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Jan 9, 2013
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Who made up this legend that Canada Day is in any way relevant to this bill?!

I mean I'm not saying that this bill won't pass before the summer break, but it'll pass because they want to get it done and not because of some "Canada Day Narrative" that someone in this forum made up and is referenced y people again and again.
Canada Day is the start of summer break anyway. This was invented by Minuster Maccalum in 2016 BTW, he probably didn't mean Canada Day as a legendary rather than a sign of the start of summer break however, it will be a great opportunity for Trudeau's government to add such bill passage to their achievements that is usually declared on Canada Day (the legendary)!
 

ChippyBoy

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Dec 5, 2016
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There is no C-6 debate next week probably because Minister A. Hussein is visiting Egypt, so he'll be away from the HoC.
The Prime Minister needs to give a short sharp tug on his new Minister's leash to arrest his self-aggrandizing attention-seeking 'African-made-good' world tour and tell him to get his arse back on a plane to Ottawa to go in to bat for the Government on achieving Bill C-6's passage asap, as it's so near to being finished and it'd make the Government's bills achieved tally go up by one virtually overnight with just a measly three senatorial amendments to consider. Surely Hussen's staffers have had more than ample time since May 3rd to consider all of the implications of these three measly amendments; unless of course they're struggling with the English as an earlier poster's reply e-mail of yesterday amusingly showed.
 
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tyl92

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Apr 1, 2013
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It's been a month since the senate got rid of bill c6 and yet nothing happened .
It's not surprising and we're used to that.
I gave up on this bill a while ago , knowing that all those affected from c24 won't benefit from it after all . Planning according c24 made things easier .
Like many others said , most of the people who were affected by c24 wouldn't benefit from c6 , those eligible in 2017 and early 2018 .Because time that people wanted to save is gone and has been chewed up by tactical delays
 
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mats

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Got this from my MP(Liberal)
I am pleased to inform you that as of March 3rd the bill passed the Senate with amendments. I look forward to reviewing the amendments further with other members of caucus as it makes its way back into the House of Commons for further discussion.

And my wife got this reply from him -

The Government of Canada views C-6 as incredibly important legislation that we are deeply committed to passing. It will make Canada more open and inclusive place, and help reunify families. Bill C-6 recently passed in the Senate with amendments, which means it will need to be reconsidered in the House of Commons. Both myself and my colleagues in the Liberal Party see this legislation as a significant priority, and I will advocate strongly for its swift passage in both Chambers of Government.

So it looks like Libs will pass this bill, when is the only question.
 
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surya99

Star Member
Oct 25, 2016
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I believe that the whole Canada Day significance was actually first specifically alluded to in 2016 by Minister McCallum himself. But of course he was referring to Canada Day 2016, hehe.
Guys this is politics... Liberals are also exaggerating this bill because of coming elections in 2019. They will keep stretching this as far as they can and will pass it close election time and remember after Royal assent it still need some more time to come in effect.
 

Joshua1

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Nov 18, 2013
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It's been a month since the senate got rid of bill c6 and yet nothing happened .
It's not surprising and we're used to that.
I gave up on this bill a while ago , knowing that all those affected from c24 won't benefit from it after all . Planning according c24 made things easier .
Like many others said , most of the people who were affected by c24 wouldn't benefit from c6 , those eligible in 2017 and early 2018 .Because time that people wanted to save is gone and has been chewed up by tactical delays
I am in that boat. Had C-6 passed last year, I'd have been eligible to apply since May 2016.
 
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subha_1962

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Dec 20, 2013
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Thank you dpenbill for your detailed answer. Leaving C 6 completly aside, one small clarification I need is that the govt has to either appeal or accept the federal court decision correct? They just cannot go about their businees as it never happened, correct? Sorry if I sound dense. I don't have a legal knowledge
 

747-captain

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Thank you dpenbill for your detailed answer. Leaving C 6 completly aside, one small clarification I need is that the govt has to either appeal or accept the federal court decision correct? They just cannot go about their businees as it never happened, correct? Sorry if I sound dense. I don't have a legal knowledge
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have an in-depth knowledge of the workings of Canadian law, however from what I've read around these boards, my understanding is that the government has 60 days to appeal that Federal district court decision. They have to either appeal it to the "Federal Appeals Court", or the current decision stands. But if they enact legislation that satisfies that decision (and I'm assuming the amendment by Sen. Omidvar in the Senate does that), I believe the issue will be moot. And by that, I mean if that amendment is accepted by the House and it becomes law, affording some form of "due process" that does not violate a naturalized citizen's rights under the Bill of Rights.
 

MWM

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Jun 1, 2014
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who else lost hope like me ??? I feel this dream will never come true , and the trick is to keep us dreaming . Then wake up us on reality .... that closed loop of C -24 will never ever open .
 
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Joshua1

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Nov 18, 2013
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A for me, I'll enjoy the champions league final this weekend (Real Madrid vs Juventus) and the NBA finals for the month of June.
Please, find yourself some healthy entertainment to keep your anxiety in check.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Thank you dpenbill for your detailed answer. Leaving C 6 completly aside, one small clarification I need is that the govt has to either appeal or accept the federal court decision correct? They just cannot go about their businees as it never happened, correct? Sorry if I sound dense. I don't have a legal knowledge

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have an in-depth knowledge of the workings of Canadian law, however from what I've read around these boards, my understanding is that the government has 60 days to appeal that Federal district court decision. They have to either appeal it to the "Federal Appeals Court", or the current decision stands. But if they enact legislation that satisfies that decision (and I'm assuming the amendment by Sen. Omidvar in the Senate does that), I believe the issue will be moot. And by that, I mean if that amendment is accepted by the House and it becomes law, affording some form of "due process" that does not violate a naturalized citizen's rights under the Bill of Rights.
It is NOT any where near so clear.

As I have referenced multiple times, Federal Court decisions have limited precedent authority.

That is, it is NOT clear that the Minister cannot proceed to revoke the citizenship of persons other than the eight individuals who are parties to the case Justice Gagné ruled upon. The decision is binding for these eight individuals unless the government appeals and has the decision set aside or otherwise overruled. But it is not clear to what extent the government is bound by this decision in any other case.

That said, unlike the vast majority of Federal Court decisions involving IRCC, in this decision Justice Gagné in effect gave the government judicial notice that the Section 10 process violates the Canadian Bill of Rights and the offending provisions are, consequently, inoperative. And, indeed, Justice Gagné imposed five thousand dollars costs for each of the individuals, signalling that similar costs would be imposed in future cases or perhaps even more might be imposed against the government.

So, as the activist lawyer Lorne Waldman expressed hope for, perhaps the decision is strong enough to discourage the government from going ahead with other revocation cases, from employing the Section 10 procedure against persons other than the eight parties in this case.

Note the ruling explicitly states that the Minister is prohibited from applying subsections 10(3) and 10(4) against the Applicants, and does not prohibit action against others.

So the question is whether paragraph 5 in the judgment itself (located near end of the decision), ruling that subsections 10(1), 10(3), and 10(4) are inoperative, prohibits the Minister taking action against any persons other than these Applicants.

Some of the media reports suggest it does. But it really is not clear. As I previously noted, other Federal Court Justices have already ruled differently. Justice Gagné's ruling has no more force and effect generally than those decisions.

Thus, for example, getting back to what 747-captain observed:
". . . my understanding is that the government has 60 days to appeal that Federal district court decision. They have to either appeal it to the "Federal Appeals Court", or the current decision stands."

The question is stands-for-what? It certainly stands for these eight individuals. Unless an appeal results in a different outcome, the Minister is prohibited from applying the procedure in Section 10 to these individuals.

Otherwise, yes, as also observed by 747-captain, if Bill C-6 receives Royal Assent including the Senate amendment of the Section 10 procedure, that will have the effect of rendering the Justice Gagné decision moot. And, actually, it will have that effect regardless whether the revised procedure "satisfies that decision," since that decision only applies to the current version of Section 10 and does not prescribe what would be required to satisfy the procedural safeguards of the Canadian Bill of Rights.

Bottom-line:
-- the decision may have some influence on how the Liberal government handles Bill C-6, and in particular it may be an incentive to accept the Senate amendment to Bill C-6
-- the decision for sure affects the eight individuals party to the case, and prohibits the current procedure being used to revoke their citizenship unless an appellate decision rules otherwise
-- the effect of the decision relative to other individuals, if not appealed, is NOT clear; the strong wording of the decision should discourage the government from proceeding in other cases but does not necessarily prohibit the government from doing so


Caveat: there may be a substantial difference between what the decision legally compels and what it practically compels.

While I have been diligently reading and researching immigration and citizenship related Canadian law, in some depth, for nearly a decade now, in contrast I have four decades of (in many ways conflicting) experience in non-Canadian jurisprudence influencing my thinking and, frankly, there are some very different influences and approaches to interpretation and application in Canadian law which make it difficult for me to grasp the force and effect given certain nuances in interpretation here, which is more about the practical impact than it is what is technically the legal import. In the other topic about this decision, for example, I drilled some into the difference between what "due process" means in Canadian jurisprudence versus what it means elsewhere, and that in particular it is very, very different from what due process means in the United States (biggest difference, but not the only difference, is that due process is a constitutionally guaranteed right in the U.S., whereas in Canada due process is NOT a constitutional right (recognizing some Charter rights for persons charged with crimes that are similar to U.S. constitutionally guaranteed due process rights).


Final observation: make no mistake, there is NO chance this decision will terminate proceedings to revoke fraud on the grounds of misrepresentation. One way or another, the government will continue to exercise the authority to revoke citizenship for misrepresentation. At most, this will stall such proceedings pending final resolution of these issues, either judicially or legislatively.
 
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sivabalan

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Jan 25, 2014
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JasFer

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Mar 6, 2017
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This happened yesterday at :3:15 pm in the HOC:

Hon. Bardish Chagger (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism, Lib.):


Mr. Speaker, this afternoon, we will continue debate on the Conservative's opposition motion. This evening, we will proceed with Bill C-45, the cannabis act, at second reading.C-44, the budget. In the afternoon, we will return to Bill C-45.

Our hope for Monday and Tuesday is to send Bill C-45 to committee, and also to deal with report stage of Bill C-44. Other bills for next week include the Senate amendments to Bill C-6, the Citizenship Act; and Bill S-3, provided the bill is passed by the Senate.

Should time permit, we would also like some debate on Bill C-49, transportation modernization; and Bill C-24, to amend the Salaries Act.
We have had a conversation among House leaders. I look forward to continuing those conversations, and I will do my best to report to this House the information that I have, and we will do our best to work well together so that all members can do the good work that we are sent here to do.
 
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egghead

Star Member
Sep 29, 2016
137
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Ah yes, get that dope legislation moving forward.......priorities. Whether C-6 ever passes or not it will NEVER be studied in future university courses as a model for passing legislation. Two years, friends. I am quickly moving into the "doesn't matter anymore" category for citizenship because of my dates. Thanks for nothing, Justin.
 
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