Bill C-6: Senate stage

[screech339]

Hahahaha we complain about the system for making the process difficult on us, yet one of us Mr Screech339 has some pretty strong opinions on denying children of Canadians born abroad from their right of nationality of the nation of their parents. If citizenship is purely based on what a person contributes to the system, half of the population of Canada would be deported or expelled to noman land

Based on his logic some indigenous individuals will be deported too, i wonder where to though

My children cannot pass on their citizenship either. So I happen to think that they should not be able to pass on citizenship if they choose to have children outside Canada. I will simply warn them of the consequences of their actions.

 

[admontreal]

My children cannot pass on their citizenship either. So I happen to think that they should not be able to pass on citizenship if they choose to have children outside Canada. I will simply warn them of the consequences of their actions.

Why would you be so hard on yourself and your kids ? Just to make a point ?

If your children grow up in Canada I do not see the difference between them and children born here. Also, in a globalized world like this one they may not 'choose' to have their kids in Canada. It can just 'happen' and it would be simply impossible (logistically) to give birth here. You are a parent so you know how delicate it was to give birth in your own city, with your own doctor and with your family/friends (I assume) around. Why would a canadian mother have to travel all the way here (while her job/studies/husband are in another country) just to ensure her kid would have that right ?

 

[screech339]

They just did like all the immigrants: Hoping for a better life.
They took taxi driving jobs because they had kids to raise, bills and rents to pay, planning to work on their program equivalence recognition by a government that told them all was possible. When that was achieved and they went on the job market they realized they would never land a job in their field. Not because they are not qualified, or not experienced, but because of other reasons that were never told to them before. So yes, they have the right to complain that their life can't get any better when they gave so much efforts. Every Canadian has the right to hope that their situation can improve with appropriate efforts. And everybody has the 'balls' (as you say) to do so.

Screech339, I will ask you a question and I understand if you decline to answer: did you immigrate to Canada ?
Believe it or not, the answer could help me understand more and put your positions in perspective.

I have no issues with doctors driving cabs so long as they understand what they are giving up behind / leaving behind out of their own free will. If you take a PR without a job lined up, don't go complaining about having to take minimum wage job because bills have to be paid.

If you didn't want that kind of life, you shouldn't have left a good paying job behind. If you want to keep same job / same pay, you should have job lined up first. Do you quit your job in canada before taking on another job? No you don't. You get a job lined up before quitting a job. Same principle applies.

As for your question, I like to keep it a mystery. It shouldn't matter whether I was an immigrant, child of an immigrant, canadian born or timbuktu. The principle of citizenship remains the same regardless.

 

[avro1959]

screech339 has brought up this point several times, and I can't get my head around it. How is it possible to live on social assistance for years? EI only lasts for a year approximately, and the social welfare amounts provided afterwards are paltry. You'd barely survive with those amounts.

I'm genuinely curious about this as I've heard a lot of people make comments like this, and I just don't see any merit to it. It would probably work in some extremely socialist countries in Europe, but I don't see how it would work in Canada.

 

[screech339]

Why would you be so hard on yourself and your kids ? Just to make a point ?

If your children grow up in Canada I do not see the difference between them and children born here. Also, in a globalized world like this one they may not 'choose' to have their kids in Canada. It can just 'happen' and it would be simply impossible (logistically) to give birth here. You are a parent so you know how delicate it was to give birth in your own city, with your own doctor and with your family/friends (I assume) around. Why would a canadian mother have to travel all the way here (while her job/studies/husband are in another country) just to ensure her kid would have that right ?

I am not being hard on myself or my kids. There is a thing called accountability to your actions. Besides, since their children cannot get citizenship through my kids, my kids can always sponsor them for PR. Once the grandchildren have citizenship, they can pass it on. No difference from a canadian born.

In fact I rather have my grandchildren be naturalized canadians than canadian by descent. This way they can pass it on. If my grandchildren doesn't want anything to do with canada, why should they get citizenship. If they want canadian citizenship, they need to tell my children (their mother) to move back to Canada before turning 19 for PR.

 

[screech339]

screech339 has brought up this point several times, and I can't get my head around it. How is it possible to live on social assistance for years? EI only lasts for a year approximately, and the social welfare amounts provided afterwards are paltry. You'd barely survive with those amounts.

I'm genuinely curious about this as I've heard a lot of people make comments like this, and I just don't see any merit to it. It would probably work in some extremely socialist countries in Europe, but I don't see how it would work in Canada.

Easy. I have lived in the apartment for almost 5 years and I have seen the same husband and wife with a child living in same building I know they can't afford (I have seen them everyday outside smoking weed when I'm home on vacation. So it is obvious they have no job.). So to answer your question, yes it can be done. You can live on social assistance for years.

As for EI, I made that example to make a point of not abusing it. Work 1 year, get 6 months EI, work 1 year and repeat. So in theory you only worked 3.5 years out of 5 years. You are taking out more money in EI than what you paid into. That is like cheating the system.

That is why days while collecting EI and social assistance should not count towards citizen by descent earning ability to pass on citizenship to their children.

 

[marcher]

Easy. I have lived in the apartment for almost 5 years and I have seen the same husband and wife with a child living in same apartment I know they can't afford (I have seen them everyday outside smoking weed when I'm home on vacation. So it is obvious they have no job.). So to answer your question, yes you can live on social assistance for years.

they must be on disability allowance.

 

[admontreal]

Easy. I have lived in the apartment for almost 5 years and I have seen the same husband and wife with a child living in same apartment I know they can't afford (I have seen them everyday outside smoking weed when I'm home on vacation. So it is obvious they have no job.). So to answer your question, yes you can live on social assistance for years.

How exactly ? Can you provide calculations to support that ?
I live in Quebec and I can definitely tell you that the situation you described is not possible on social assistance only. You can get by temporarily for maximum a year but the amount of Social Assistance would never cover anything near that situation for such a long time.

PS: I mean by SA the minimum amount that the government provides you if you CHOOSE to stay home and not do anything at all. In Quebec they call it 'Last Recourse Help'.

 

[screech339]

they must be on disability allowance.

That is a possibility. Anyway we are leading off topic.

Point is that once exceptions are granted such as allowing citizen by descent to passing on citizenship after a limited time, there are potential for abuse. If there are any allowance for citizen by descent to pass on citizenship, there must be concrete steps/rules that doesn't allow any abuse.

 

[admontreal]

That is a possibility. Anyway we are leading off topic.

Point is that once exceptions are granted such as allowing citizen by descent to passing on citizenship after a limited time, there are potential for abuse. If there are any allowance for citizen by descent to pass on citizenship, there must be concrete steps/rules that doesn't allow any abuse.

Then what is the difference between a citizen by descent that abuses the system and a citizen by birth/naturalization or even a PR who does ? Can you please provide an explanation beyond generic statements ?
Why do you keep assuming that ALL citizens by descent will abuse the system ?

 

[itsmyid]

Then what is the difference between a citizen by descent that abuses the system and a citizen by birth/naturalization or even a PR who does ? Can you please provide an explanation beyond generic statements ?
Why do you keep assuming that ALL citizens by descent will abuse the system ?

Same reason why some people assume all people who want C-6 are trying to be citizen of convenience

 

[marcher]

Guys I know we are all bored with the lack of updates regarding Bill C-6. If we will discuss subjects here that relate somehow to the topic, let keep them at a respectful manner and not start making personal attacks or critiques. Debate ideas not individuals. Thanks.

 

[akshatk]

I have no issues with giving canadian by descent ability to pass on citizenship so long as there is some sort of give back to Canada, that is also in Canada's interests like paying towards social benefits out of it. Staying in Canada on social assistance for 5 years just so he/she can pass on citizenship is not in Canada's best interests.

This is no difference from the new points system visa express to the old points system. It is not in Canada's best interests to give immigrants PR that has no job lined up. Much like the old system was. Lots of doctors driving cabs. It's better for Canada if PR are given to those with job offers.

you must be kidding, it's next to impossible to get job offer while you are outside the canada.

 

[screech339]

you must be kidding, it's next to impossible to get job offer while you are outside the canada.

Really? Express visa is very popular. They must have been getting job offers. Without it, it is next to impossible to get express visa without it. Otherwise we would be getting lots of anti-trump americans coming in.

 

[itsmyid]

you must be kidding, it's next to impossible to get job offer while you are outside the canada.

Nope, I got my job before I move to Canada , and so did many of my coworkers