Bill C-24 Second Reading on February 27th:

[chakrab]

will take a look at which section representing the 4/6 physical presence

it's under 3(1) and 9(2)

 

[MrB]

Very interesting transcript from yesterday's meeting. It seems like the bill might be at the committee stage for a little longer. The senators seem to be generally concerned at the speed the Hoc want it passed and even more concerned with some aspect of the bill. They mentioned in regards to time and process, that they wanted to do it right unlike the HOC. Let's see if they keep up with their words.

Honourable senators, regarding the processing of this bill through Parliament, let me make this point: Why are we faced with this sudden urgency to pass a bill that sat in the House of Commons between first and second reading for three whole months?

Senator Cordy: Shame.

Senator Mercer: Are they dragging their feet over there again? They can't get their act together.

Senator Eggleton: The desire to finish up as many jobs as possible before the summer adjournment is understandable, but it does not explain why this bill wasn't placed before us weeks ago.

Then we were asked to perform a pre-study here in the Senate. Why this combination of delay and rush, delay and rush? It certainly is not conducive to proper and deliberate sober second thought of this bill.

Senator Munson: No respect, none.

Senator Eggleton: Representatives of the Canadian Bar Association say passing this bill is a huge step being taken without any real national debate or discussion about whether Canadians want the changes that are being proposed.

In 1977, the changes were accompanied by a white paper and cross-country forums. We, on the other hand, are expected to pass this bill within a few days with no cross-country hearings from the public whatsoever.

The months that have passed since this bill was introduced certainly don't lead one to believe that the government regards this bill as urgent. One witness before the House of Commons Citizenship Committee remarked that as it has been almost 40 years since the last major revision of Canadian citizenship laws, it may well be another 40 years before we do it again.

Senator Mercer: I hope not.

Senator Eggleton: He said it is important that we get it right, that we get it right from the beginning.

Honourable senators, despite the flaw in this process, the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology will now consider the bill formally, and I will be introducing amendments for consideration to help address some of the concerns and issues that I've talked about in this second reading debate.

Senator Mercer: We need your help. Well done.

 

[u4g5]

it's under 3(1) and 9(2)

The billed passed house of common on June 16th, and u see all these articles saying that the bill is already in effect.
i was looking at http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&billId=6401990&View=6
and http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=6676424&File=54#6

If 3(1) and 9(2) r the section thats related to eligibility, maybe its already in effect?

But now its all guessing, CIC will make a formal announcement about when the new process take place

 

[chakrab]

all those amendments were defeated in the senate yesterday.

 

[chakrab]

The billed passed house of common on June 16th, and u see all these articles saying that the bill is already in effect.
i was looking at http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&billId=6401990&View=6
and http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=6676424&File=54#6

If 3(1) and 9(2) r the section thats related to eligibility, maybe its already in effect?

But now its all guessing, CIC will make a formal announcement about when the new process take place

(2) Subsections 2(2), (3), (5), (6), (/8), (11), (15) and (17) to (19), 3(1), (2), (4) to (6) and (/8) and 4(2), (3), (5), (6), (/8), (10) and (11), section 6, subsections 7(1) and (2), section 8, subsections 9(1), (2) and (4), section 10, subsection 12(2), sections 14 and 15, subsections 16(1) and (3), sections 17 to 19, 21 and 23, subsections 24(2) to (6) and sections 25, 28 to 30, 42 and 43 come into force on a day to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council that is made not earlier than one day after the day on which an order is made under subsection (1)

 

[sicko86]

sicko can u send me the link plz

Sorry I watched that live streaming .. I am sure if there is a stored video for that.

 

[sicko86]

The billed passed house of common on June 16th, and u see all these articles saying that the bill is already in effect.
i was looking at http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&billId=6401990&View=6
and http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=6676424&File=54#6

If 3(1) and 9(2) r the section thats related to eligibility, maybe its already in effect?

But now its all guessing, CIC will make a formal announcement about when the new process take place

How they are already in effect .. you make me laugh man. The Text is clear those will come into force on a fixed day decided by the coucil

 

[Empirical-Scientist]

No further updates as of yet: http://openparliament.ca/bills/41-2/C-24/. I suppose the Royal Assent will be granted pretty soon, but I still don't understand why some of you keep indulging in wishful thinking. Here's what the parliamentary procedure states with respect to Royal Assent and "Coming into Force" (source: http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISinfo/Faq.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1#ID0EGD):

[size=10pt]What is Royal Assent?[/size]
When the Senate and the House of Commons have both passed a bill in identical form, the Governor General, or one of his deputies, gives the bill Royal Assent on behalf of the Queen, and it becomes an Act of Parliament, one of the statutes of Canada. Royal Assent can be granted either at a ceremony in the Senate chamber held in the presence of both Houses, or by written declaration that is announced in both Houses.

What does ‘Coming into Force' mean?
‘Coming into Force' is the date that the legislation, or part of it, becomes enforceable. Laws can come into force in several ways:

Some laws come into force when they receive Royal Assent;
Some laws come into force on a day or days specified in the Act; and
Some laws come into force on a day or days set by the Governor in Council (the Governor General, on the advice of the federal Cabinet).

 

[sicko86]

(2) Subsections 2(2), (3), (5), (6), (/8), (11), (15) and (17) to (19), 3(1), (2), (4) to (6) and (/8) and 4(2), (3), (5), (6), (/8), (10) and (11), section 6, subsections 7(1) and (2), section 8, subsections 9(1), (2) and (4), section 10, subsection 12(2), sections 14 and 15, subsections 16(1) and (3), sections 17 to 19, 21 and 23, subsections 24(2) to (6) and sections 25, 28 to 30, 42 and 43 come into force on a day to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council that is made not earlier than one day after the day on which an order is made under subsection (1)

Hey chakrab, do you know what is subsection (1) here?

 

[u4g5]

Subject to subsections (2) and (3), an application that was made under subsection 5(1), (2), or (5), 5.1(1), (2) or (3), 9(1) or 11(1) of the Citizenship Act before the day on which subsection 3(7) comes into force and was not finally disposed of before that day is to be dealt with and disposed of in accord­ance with

(a) the provisions of that Act — except section 3, subsection 5(4), sections 5.1 and 14 and paragraph 22(1)(f) — as they read immediately before that day; and

(b) the following provisions of that Act as they read on that day:

(i) section 3,

(ii) paragraph 5(2)(b) and subsection 5(4),

(iii) section 5.1 other than paragraph (1)(c.1),

(iv) sections 13.1 to 14, and

(v) paragraphs 22(1)(a.1), (a.2), (b.1), (e.1), (e.2) and (f) and subsections 22(1.1), (3) and (4).

Grant of citizenship is under section 5, so once bill receives Royal assent, which is any day now, it will come into force?

 

[sicko86]

No further updates as of yet: http://openparliament.ca/bills/41-2/C-24/. I suppose the Royal Assent will be granted pretty soon, but I still don't understand why some of you keep indulging in wishful thinking. Here's what the parliamentary procedure states with respect to Royal Assent and "Coming into Force" (source: http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISinfo/Faq.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1#ID0EGD):

So What does that proof? We already know that !! Bill C-24 is the third bullet "Some laws come into force on a day or days set by the Governor in Council (the Governor General, on the advice of the federal Cabinet"

That doesn't mean the day they will decide will be the next day .. just think logically and compare this to all Bill before.

There no Bill ever came into force in 1 day. (except those come into force with Royal Assent and this is different)

 

[chakrab]

Hey chakrab, do you know what is subsection (1) here?

(1) Subsection 7(3), section 11, subsections 12(1) and (3), section 13, subsection 16(2) and sections 20, 22, 27 and 41 come into force on a day to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council.

you have to read the act to check what changes are being made to the text under these sections. so these changes are made first and then (2) gets into effect.

 

[chakrab]

this text confuses me
come into force on a day to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council that is made not earlier than one day after the day on which an order is made under subsection (1)


do they mean that the decision on the date when these sections comes into force has to be atleast one day after implementation of subsection (1) or that date of effect has to be one day after.

 

[civic]

Very interesting transcript from yesterday's meeting. It seems like the bill might be at the committee stage for a little longer. The senators seem to be generally concerned at the speed the Hoc want it passed and even more concerned with some aspect of the bill. They mentioned in regards to time and process, that they wanted to do it right unlike the HOC. Let's see if they keep up with their words.

Honourable senators, regarding the processing of this bill through Parliament, let me make this point: Why are we faced with this sudden urgency to pass a bill that sat in the House of Commons between first and second reading for three whole months?

Senator Cordy: Shame.

Senator Mercer: Are they dragging their feet over there again? They can't get their act together.

Senator Eggleton: The desire to finish up as many jobs as possible before the summer adjournment is understandable, but it does not explain why this bill wasn't placed before us weeks ago.

Then we were asked to perform a pre-study here in the Senate. Why this combination of delay and rush, delay and rush? It certainly is not conducive to proper and deliberate sober second thought of this bill.

Senator Munson: No respect, none.

Senator Eggleton: Representatives of the Canadian Bar Association say passing this bill is a huge step being taken without any real national debate or discussion about whether Canadians want the changes that are being proposed.

In 1977, the changes were accompanied by a white paper and cross-country forums. We, on the other hand, are expected to pass this bill within a few days with no cross-country hearings from the public whatsoever.

The months that have passed since this bill was introduced certainly don't lead one to believe that the government regards this bill as urgent. One witness before the House of Commons Citizenship Committee remarked that as it has been almost 40 years since the last major revision of Canadian citizenship laws, it may well be another 40 years before we do it again.

Senator Mercer: I hope not.

Senator Eggleton: He said it is important that we get it right, that we get it right from the beginning.

Honourable senators, despite the flaw in this process, the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology will now consider the bill formally, and I will be introducing amendments for consideration to help address some of the concerns and issues that I've talked about in this second reading debate.

Senator Mercer: We need your help. Well done.

Great move at Senate. I heard the Senate is Cons-dominant. I hope they wake up and realize the wrong sides of this Bill and stop it right there.

 

[sicko86]

this text confuses me
come into force on a day to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council that is made not earlier than one day after the day on which an order is made under subsection (1)


do they mean that the decision on the date when these sections comes into force has to be atleast one day after implementation of subsection (1) or that date of effect has to be one day after.

From what I understand they can't come into force before one day after subsection (1) clauses come into force!