Bad news for TFW under food service processing their LMO

[stopDA]

I mean .. stop da that .. Indians & filipinos in Canada they take most of jobs.. full time and part time because of their big number and they also hire from same their nationality .
Same here in Dubai when you will come here you will feel yourself in India or Philippines .. !
So do you think that image same in Canada .
And also they take most of the highest jobs salary .. so do you think same in Canada ???

Oh yeah, this kind of thing definitely happens in Canada and it's somewhat prevalent. Foreign expats hiring people exclusively from their own countries. It happens, but it's not as prevalent as people try to make it out to be. My employer is himself an ethnic minority (and of a different ethnicity/nationality than me), but he still hired me. That just goes to show you that not everybody discriminates when selecting which foreign workers they're going to hire. Furthermore, such discrimination is actually illegal in Canada. Anyone who denies jobs to people based on their race or nationality will find themselves in loads of legal trouble and the public will shun them.

 

[fkl]

Could you please mention some position names instead of saying "many jobs" for which simply there do not exist qualified Canadians? Thanks!

Sure - by all means, i was tempted to post open positions listed on a few companies websites for may be a year or more. But that would get too specific on a public forum, so let me just explain job specs / roles as you asked.

I work in embedded software and develop products related to Multicore network processors. My employer has people in RF and microwave transmission software, Linux kernel, drivers, Cloud platforms, Network management to name a few. A large percentage of these positions were filled from candidates brought in from all over the world because qualified Canadians don't exist for these roles. I also take part in recruitment, so i now see how the process works. We spend a lot of energy with in the country first but fail to find Canadians with the required skill sets and then look else where to get the resources. It would have been a lot better to get those resources locally if those existed - from a pure business point of view. I won't argue with how "easy or difficult it is" since most people try making it look like getting an LMO is a joke. It is not and CIC really beats the hell out of employers trying to get those. But a certain deal breaker here is the time frames. LMO is not every thing. It is meaning less unless you can actually get the worker here to start working. This includes work permit processing time which can be up to a year in many parts of the world. This is a killer for many businesses, so when employers resort to the process, they only do it when they need it badly enough.

Training juniors to some extent is possible (but in a very limited %) - plus for Canada, US is the primary market where customers are simply not willing to invest or take chance on resources who haven't had done similar stuff in the past. So many times, it is not a question of what can be trained or learned, it is also a question of what one has done in the past. Not to mention the more specialized you go - the longer is the learning path. You just cannot replace experience with "time constrained training". There always is some degree of it already going on, but at the end of the day employers are not universities.

Lastly, it is not limited to one specialized domain. Financial software for high value trading is another area in which there is acute shortage of qualified resources. I know at least a few people in that area in pretty similar circumstances. Since my exposure is focused around software industry mainly, i can speak first hand only for that. Otherwise, in terms of narrations, i get to know of several other professions with similar scenarios including professors / researches in areas ranging from medicine to space exploration.

True - these are highly skilled positions and NOT the majority of temp foreign workers, but neither is it an insignificant figure. It could range any where between 10 to 40% of entire tfw force depending upon where one would like to draw a line for "Skilled job". Please note that this bar that i kept is much higher than that of government. If you go by their definition of skilled workers, you would get any where between 50 - 70%.

 

[keesio]

I first came to Canada long ago as a TFW as a software engineer. My employer sponsored me. They had a tough time finding a local Canadian to fill the position. Part of the reason was that the "brain-drain" was pretty significant at the time - many Canadians went to the US during the tech boom of the late 90's when US companies were paying big dollars to recruit tech workers from all over. I was the reverse (American tech worker coming North).

 

[fkl]

Yeah i understand the brain drain concept, but don't think it holds any longer. Though quite a few people still go to US to make money or to work in say silicon valley to be cutting edge. But it comes with its own trade offs. For one, it is damn expensive to live as well if we are talking about any tech hub whether it be valley, California in general or Seattle.

Plus the US immigration system now takes ages to get you a permanent resident status. There are several people in my company who came from some 3rd world country, worked in the US for a few years and decided to move to Canada and are pretty happy with that.

The long term health care, educational and retirement advantages - combined with the peacefulness and diversity of Canada makes it really attractive to a lot of folks.

Lastly, the positions i referred as an example are even facing shortage in the US as well. That is why many customers in the US turn to partners across the border to help getting their needed jobs done.

 

[keesio]

Yeah i understand the brain drain concept, but don't think it holds any longer. Though quite a few people still go to US to make money or to work in say silicon valley to be cutting edge. But it comes with its own trade offs. For one, it is damn expensive to live as well if we are talking about any tech hub whether it be valley, California in general or Seattle.

Plus the US immigration system now takes ages to get you a permanent resident status. There are several people in my company who came from some 3rd world country, worked in the US for a few years and decided to move to Canada and are pretty happy with that.

The long term health care, educational and retirement advantages - combined with the peacefulness and diversity of Canada makes it really attractive to a lot of folks.

Lastly, the positions i referred as an example are even facing shortage in the US as well. That is why many customers in the US turn to partners across the border to help getting their needed jobs done.

I'd say about 90% of the Canadians I know who moved to the US for tech jobs never came back to Canada or plan on coming back. Usually the weather or lower cost of living but also they usually start a family there and get settled (especially when they moved when they were young). The people who do come back are people who moved to the US when they were older (stronger ties to Canada and less ability to adapt) or other family reasons (parents got old and need to take care of them, etc). They actually ask me why I moved to Canada because it is a "no-brainer" to stay in the US. I told them I like it in Canada - they thought I was nuts!

 

[fkl]

Yeah, mostly the people i am referring to would be older on an average because more often they would have come to US for that matter at that age. I presume majority of those moving young from here to US are native Canadians or those who have been here for a generation or so. So it aligns with that.

 

[stopDA]

Well, we're now in early June. For most of last month, we were told that there would be some changes in early June. Before that, we were also told that the moratorium would only last weeks rather than months. It's been over a month already. How much longer do they expect us to wait?

 

[steerpike]

Well, we're now in early June. For most of last month, we were told that there would be some changes in early June. Before that, we were also told that the moratorium would only last weeks rather than months. It's been over a month already. How much longer do they expect us to wait?

Kenney is in a tough spot, he wants to keep the program without making any changes, so he will try to stall and make some minor superficial changes, like changing the name. But even meaningless changes like that in the government takes forever.

Keep this in mind, for example, my wife got her PR in April. Everything is done, finalized, complete. It still takes them more than 3 MONTHS to mail out the PR card. These guys at CIC are on an entire different planet when it comes to time. Months are like days to them.

So think, how long would it take a private sector corporation to enact some superficial changes to a popular program, including a name change? A week maybe? okay, 5 business days in the private sector. That means will take the government 5 MONTHS to do the same thing.

 

[stopDA]

Kenney is in a tough spot, he wants to keep the program without making any changes, so he will try to stall and make some minor superficial changes, like changing the name. But even meaningless changes like that in the government takes forever.

Keep this in mind, for example, my wife got her PR in April. Everything is done, finalized, complete. It still takes them more than 3 MONTHS to mail out the PR card. These guys at CIC are on an entire different planet when it comes to time. Months are like days to them.

So think, how long would it take a private sector corporation to enact some superficial changes to a popular program, including a name change? A week maybe? okay, 5 business days in the private sector. That means will take the government 5 MONTHS to do the same thing.

Going by your logic, that means that this moratorium could last for years since Kenney said that changes will be made in a 'few weeks'. It doesn't matter how much longer it will take, this moratorium is already starting to get ridiculous. He should have ended this moratorium 2 weeks ago if he seriously meant for it to take only weeks. There are still 7 more days left in the month that can be classified as 'early June' and I seriously hope that he plans on lifting the moratorium before those days are up.

 

[zardoz]

Where exactly did Kenney say, in a formal statement, "early June"?

 

[stopDA]

Where exactly did Kenney say, in a formal statement, "early June"?

Well, I'm going by the news media quoting him. I don't have any video or other recording of him saying so.

 

[stopDA]

OK, so I just realized that Kenney, as well as other MPs, are super-busy at the moment and will be for the next 3 weeks. We're probably just going to have to be patient and wait it out. They're all engaged in all-day sessions (lasting more than 12 hours) in the House of Commons from morning until midnight. It's useless to expect any further development on this moratorium's cancellation until they break for the summer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/05/26/house-commons-canada-mps-late_n_5394259.html

 

[jenny12345]

Kenney is in a tough spot, he wants to keep the program without making any changes, so he will try to stall and make some minor superficial changes, like changing the name. But even meaningless changes like that in the government takes forever.

Keep this in mind, for example, my wife got her PR in April. Everything is done, finalized, complete. It still takes them more than 3 MONTHS to mail out the PR card. These guys at CIC are on an entire different planet when it comes to time. Months are like days to them.

So think, how long would it take a private sector corporation to enact some superficial changes to a popular program, including a name change? A week maybe? okay, 5 business days in the private sector. That means will take the government 5 MONTHS to do the same thing.

What you said actually makes sense. He did say on an interview a few weeks, I really thought It would be lifted by now. It's a bit sad because I saw first hand how Canadians were displaced by TFW's since they require 40 hours a week on contract and they are more reliable. However TFW's are open to abuse. I remember the general manager telling me he wasn't renewing my contract and he was sending me home because I was requesting weekends off. I remember a supervisor making me clean outside for an hour while it was -30 and I wanted to go back in and she said to "sweep" more outside. I am grateful for the TFW program for letting me have a stepping stone but I don't think its the best idea. I think TFW's who are already here should be given permanent status .

 

[stopDA]

Well guys, we are now officially 6 weeks into this moratorium. So far, the only new update on ESDC is that they're cancelling the recruitment and advertising exemption for international students with expiring post-graduate work permits. They just released that info yesterday. I wonder if this is one of the new changes that are being made to the temporary foreign worker program that Kenney said he's announce in a "few weeks". Does this mean that he's almost done with his review and changes and is about to lift this moratorium in the coming days?

 

[kafka khaos]

Moratorium? What moratorium??

“YA BLEW IT JIM” - BOSTON PIZZA FACING BOYCOTT FOLLOWING TFW HIRING SPREE http://ntfw.ca/2014/06/ya-blew-it-jim-boston-pizza-facing-boycott-following-tfw-hiring-spree/

MCDONALD’S RECRUITING INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS DODGING TFW FREEZE http://ntfw.ca/2014/06/mcdonalds-recruiting-to-international-students-to-dodge-tfw-freeze/