Bad news for TFW under food service processing their LMO

[disappointed10]

I read that tomorrow the moratorium will be lifted according to vote , if its to stay or totally scrapped it , just pray everyone

 

[Intocanada]

I read that tomorrow the moratorium will be lifted according to vote , if its to stay or totally scrapped it , just pray everyone

Hey, Where did you get this news? Could you plz share the link? Although, I am not in the Food Industry category, I am very interested to know the latest happenings.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

I never read this statistically any where nor vouched for this. But on one side every one says Canada has far less population say as compared to US and has arguably been among the countries with most immigration (possibly highest) since mid 90's. Combining those with cries of "hundreds of thousands of immigrants" each year doesn't really add up along that 20% line of reasoning. At the very least compared to any other random picked country in the world, Canadian culture is considered most diverse because most of people here came from some where at some point or their parents did so.

I never tried distinguishing it with being born here or not. Neither tried stating it like a fact. It is the general perception that i always heard from Canadians themselves.

Irrespective, this one stance had little to nothing to do with the rest of the discussion. May be it hurt an ego or two, so the only thing one found stated as a FACT was this.

To me none of this is / or was a fact. These are all opinions and discussions. If statistics are brought some where, people quote a reference. I don't remember having done any, nor one was needed.

A lot of that post really doesn't make sense.

You did make the statement as if it were fact and not your own opinion. I merely pointed out that such a ridiculously wrong statement undermines the credibility of anything else you post.

Here is the reference: http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/.3ndic.1t.4r@-eng.jsp?iid=38. In 2011, 20.6% of the population was born outside of Canada.

 

[stopDA]

I read that tomorrow the moratorium will be lifted according to vote , if its to stay or totally scrapped it , just pray everyone

I think that you're mistaken. They actually voted on it yesterday and it was to prevent a moratorium from being imposed on the entire low-skilled sector of the program. This was actually the second vote they had on it, both of which were unsuccessful at shutting the program down. However, this was not a vote to lift the moratorium on the food services sector. They're going to lift the moratorium when the review is done and new changes are implemented.

 

[zardoz]

What if English is your first language? Should you require IELTS then? That test is freaking expensive.

My post was related to the previous "unreadable" comments... Hence the emoticons...

 

[stopDA]

My post was related to the previous "unreadable" comments... Hence the emoticons...

(SIGH) As if I needed another reason for people to hate foreign workers. If you read some of the comments online, the language issue seems to be a significant factor in all this tension. To all you foreign workers whose first language is not English (or French), PLEASE try your damndest to speak it at all times. Nobody likes going to a restaurant or other establishment and hearing foreign workers speak to each other in a different language especially when it's obvious that the worker understands English (or French) just fine. You're giving them more justification for wanting us gone by doing this.

 

[zardoz]

(SIGH) As if I needed another reason for people to hate foreign workers. If you read some of the comments online, the language issue seems to be a significant factor in all this tension. To all you foreign workers whose first language is not English (or French), PLEASE try your damndest to speak it at all times. Nobody likes going to a restaurant or other establishment and hearing foreign workers speak to each other in a different language especially when it's obvious that the worker understands English (or French) just fine. You're giving them more justification for wanting us gone by doing this.

Personally, I have absolutely NO problem with people working between themselves in their native language if they have difficulty with the language used in the country they are employed in. I have been in the same position in many European and Scandinavian countries. There is no way that I could hold a technical conversation with a co-worker in Suomi for example. It avoids confusion and will lead to overall higher/safer productivity.

<rant>
What I do object to is people who unashamedly murder my native tongue...
I would suspect that natives of any country would feel the same.
</rant>

I have actually been to a store, just outside Boston, where the "fluent English-speaking" assistant had to ask for the manager to assist me, as he couldn't understand my "Oxford English" accent. Go figure... It's not just about the language, but also the dialect/accent.

Language will always be an issue. Apparently the "Tower of Babel" curse seems to be working still.

 

[stopDA]

Also, I wish that news articles would stop using the term, "importing foreign workers" when referring to us working in Canada. We're human beings, not disposable manufactured objects. Terms like these would make anybody with half a brain cast doubt on this tolerance and acceptance that Canadians so love to brag about.

 

[torontosm]

The rest of the argument is logical that more population of temp workers is for unskilled class with all sorts of associated problems. I never tried defending that and understand the root of the problem. May be a good solution could be to have separate programs like US or (as already suggested) put restrictions like higher pay requirements for such positions.

Last part regarding "decision is not ours to give" is out of context. I don't oppose the fact that Canadians have a right to put their opinions in policies. It was said in response to "we cannot support every worker ..". You are not supporting any one. People work, pay taxes and earn living just like every one else. It is economy. Having an opinion about policy of a country is one thing vs trying to say "we are supporting workers from the rest of the world for their benefit" is really pathetic. Countries are not charities. That is why we are arguing here what is best for Canada and Canadians.

There are many things in your post that I disagree with, but let's start with the last one. You say that workers earn and pay taxes, thereby paying for themselves. Let's use an unskilled food service worker as an example, as they are the topic of this thread. These workers usually earn minimum wage ($10.25 per hour), which works out to $21,320 per year. The income tax due on this amount in Ontario is $2,116. TFW's are allowed to sponsor their spouses and dependants, without any requirement for their families to find work. Assuming that they do, and each TFW has on average 2 children, your argument is that $2,116 would be enough to cover the cost of education for 2 kids, healthcare for 4 people and still contribute for public works and services (roads, fire, police, etc.)? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Taxpayers are obviously subsidizing the lifestyles of the TFW's, which is particularly frustrating as it compounds the economic impact of the TFW displacing a Canadian resident or citizen for a particular job. So therefore, I maintain my position that we ARE supporting these unskilled workers, and therefore have every right to petition the government to change its absurd policy and stop issuing visas to unskilled, low earning TFW's immediately.

 

[torontosm]

It is not equivalent for two reasons:

a) It is ONLY for highly skilled positions vs twp for a long list of categories and professions.
b) I respectfully disagree with the logic of assigning temp workers as a percentage of population. It can be a personal opinion. But economies don't work that way. Canada is a large country by land with far less population. That is why they needed more people and still do more than US.

Just because Canada has large amounts of land doesn't mean that it can support huge influxes of immigration. Population influxes should be based on economies, not land masses. If your argument made sense, the government should only allow people to move to Canada if they live in unpopulated areas like Yukon and NWT.

 

[torontosm]

You probably have no idea about the requirements added to the process and the procedures these programs would made employers and employees go through now as compared to just a year ago. So it is easier to claim government hasn't done any thing. Try getting stats from LMO processing authority HRDSC etc. and you would know.

I'm not sure if you have ever applied for a LMO, but I did last year and the process was a joke. I was looking for a nanny and all I had to do was post an ad on Jobbank for 2 weeks. I didn't have to provide any proof or documentary evidence that no suitable candidate had applied for the position, and so long as I paid the fee, the government seemed happy to provide me with the LMO. I ended up hiring a Canadian citizen instead, but was sickened by how easy it was.

If you don't believe me, take a look on other threads in this forum and you can see how many people are "sponsoring" their relatives and family members as caregivers, employees, etc. The system is rife with abuse and I think it's outrageous that we are allowing fast food workers to come to Canada within weeks while other educated, professional prospective immigrants are being told to wait in line for up to five years while their PR applications are reviewed and processed.

 

[fkl]

Disagreement is always healthy as long as it is discussed rationally so more than welcome.

I am not talking about unskilled workers. So i agree with the stats you put in. But i am also a temp worker, make may be many folders higher than this, pay HELL LOT MORE IN TAXES, INCLUDING OLD AGE BENEFITS, RETIREMENT CONTRIBUTIONS which i only get to enjoy IF i become a PR. If you have followed the thread, people have generalized twp citing the same reasons as yours i.e. those belonging ONLY to unskilled workers. I pay far more taxes than regular Canadians (because of much higher tax brackets), am not eligible for many of the child benefits you cite (because of my salary bracket) and do not enjoy many benefits of being a PR (can't mortgage a house, lease a car beyond wp expiry, not even eligible for child benefits for almost the entire period of work permit.

So damn i am paying at least TWICE a Canadian of my stature, experience and income and NOT getting most of the benefits you listed.

So i am really pissed off when Canadians try to portray it otherwise.

I accepted it as choice, but i wasn't aware of several of the procedures because they are not written any where. It is not a complain, but i also want YOU CANADIANS to know and realize the contribution I am making and am reaping a lot less benefits until at least i become a PR>

and please, the "I" is not isolated. Close to 30% of my company's work force is on twp with similar conditions and we are helping train Canadians too, for the same roles and i know quite a lot of other people as well as employers in similar situations across a range of skilled domains.

So this is another side of the picture that you probably haven't seen which is different from the "poor temp worker who works with low wages".

There are many things in your post that I disagree with, but let's start with the last one. You say that workers earn and pay taxes, thereby paying for themselves. Let's use an unskilled food service worker as an example, as they are the topic of this thread. These workers usually earn minimum wage ($10.25 per hour), which works out to $21,320 per year. The income tax due on this amount in Ontario is $2,116. TFW's are allowed to sponsor their spouses and dependants, without any requirement for their families to find work. Assuming that they do, and each TFW has on average 2 children, your argument is that $2,116 would be enough to cover the cost of education for 2 kids, healthcare for 4 people and still contribute for public works and services (roads, fire, police, etc.)? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Taxpayers are obviously subsidizing the lifestyles of the TFW's, which is particularly frustrating as it compounds the economic impact of the TFW displacing a Canadian resident or citizen for a particular job. So therefore, I maintain my position that we ARE supporting these unskilled workers, and therefore have every right to petition the government to change its absurd policy and stop issuing visas to unskilled, low earning TFW's immediately.

 

[fkl]

Just because Canada has large amounts of land doesn't mean that it can support huge influxes of immigration. Population influxes should be based on economies, not land masses. If your argument made sense, the government should only allow people to move to Canada if they live in unpopulated areas like Yukon and NWT.

For a good length of time there was a huge influx of immigrants to Canada, land is not an isolated criteria but it combined with resources does play as one factor.

Besides, whether land is a criteria or not, being scarcely populated definitely does play SOME role. I agree it has changed now since the last decade or so

'argument making sense' is a relative term restricted to ones personal opinion. I did find it a bit offensive but would leave it to opinions of others.

Besides you just conveniently skipped the first factor which was the more fundamental reason and hence was cited at a).

 

[fkl]

I did exactly get through an LMO and probably know about it far more than most people because work permit was delayed for really weird reasons and there was a lot of legal follow up involved.

Please i am tired of arguments "only limited to low skilled label used to curse the entire class of tfw". But LMO is the easier part. The work permit in home country adds a lot more complexities and requirements WHICH YOU HAVE ZERO IDEA ABOUT.

To give you an idea, for the record my LMO was issued in 15 days and work permit took 10 months in total. The entire delay was not due to complexities of procedure (some were just lame mistakes by CIC staff in my home country). But i was really really pissed off by many weird requirements i faced which were meant ONLY to avoid problems created by low skilled positions requirements.

I wish you had actually moved further from LMO and would have gotten to catch a glimpse of work permit details itself. THEN you would have gotten some idea perhaps.

I'm not sure if you have ever applied for a LMO, but I did last year and the process was a joke. I was looking for a nanny and all I had to do was post an ad on Jobbank for 2 weeks. I didn't have to provide any proof or documentary evidence that no suitable candidate had applied for the position, and so long as I paid the fee, the government seemed happy to provide me with the LMO. I ended up hiring a Canadian citizen instead, but was sickened by how easy it was.

If you don't believe me, take a look on other threads in this forum and you can see how many people are "sponsoring" their relatives and family members as caregivers, employees, etc. The system is rife with abuse and I think it's outrageous that we are allowing fast food workers to come to Canada within weeks while other educated, professional prospective immigrants are being told to wait in line for up to five years while their PR applications are reviewed and processed.

 

[torontosm]

Disagreement is always healthy as long as it is discussed rationally so more than welcome.

I am not talking about unskilled workers. So i agree with the stats you put in. But i am also a temp worker, make may be many folders higher than this, pay HELL LOT MORE IN TAXES, INCLUDING OLD AGE BENEFITS, RETIREMENT CONTRIBUTIONS which i only get to enjoy IF i become a PR. If you have followed the thread, people have generalized twp citing the same reasons as yours i.e. those belonging ONLY to unskilled workers. I pay far more taxes than regular Canadians (because of much higher tax brackets), am not eligible for many of the child benefits you cite (because of my salary bracket) and do not enjoy many benefits of being a PR (can't mortgage a house, lease a car beyond wp expiry, not even eligible for child benefits for almost the entire period of work permit.

So damn i am paying at least TWICE a Canadian of my stature, experience and income and NOT getting most of the benefits you listed.

So i am really pissed off when Canadians try to portray it otherwise.

I accepted it as choice, but i wasn't aware of several of the procedures because they are not written any where. It is not a complain, but i also want YOU CANADIANS to know and realize the contribution I am making and am reaping a lot less benefits until at least i become a PR>

and please, the "I" is not isolated. Close to 30% of my company's work force is on twp with similar conditions and we are helping train Canadians too, for the same roles and i know quite a lot of other people as well as employers in similar situations across a range of skilled domains.

So this is another side of the picture that you probably haven't seen which is different from the "poor temp worker who works with low wages".

I'm not sure why you insist on harping on the same point. This entire thread is, as the title aptly describes, focused on TFW's for the food services industry. No one is talking about, or trying to change, your contribution or rights as a skilled TFW.

The one part of your message I do concur with wholeheartedly is that you made an informed decision to come here knowing that you would have to pay taxes. However, I completely disagree with your assertion that you pay double the taxes of Canadians without getting benefits. How exactly do you pay double, and what benefits do you not qualify for? CCTB for the first 18 months? All Pr's and citizens have to live in Canada for 18 months to qualify, just like you. Also, while 30% of your company's workforce may be comprised of TFW's, I'm sure the amount is relatively negligible when compared to the 250k other TFW's that come into Canada each year.