Baby in Canada on TRP - now what is the next step to get PR?

[tstarks]

PMM, and matthewc are RIGHT. The Call centre clerk should be fired. I don't think he applied yet matthewc.

You probably confused the clerk with semantics. TR"P"s are usually issued if someone is inadmissible to Canada but has compelling reasons and CIC decides to allow the person to enter. Your child probably has a TR"V". I can only imagine what this uninformed clerk thought your baby was up to! Anyway, the process for sponsoring dependent children is very clear and straightforward. You can send the application to Mississaug and request Buffalo or Abu Dhabi as your processing office. Your choice. But an H&C application is the WRONG choice unless your child is inadmissible for some reason.

I think you should read my first post carefully and then you will understand the process I have been through rather than making judgements.

A child for a P/R born outside of Canada does not get a normal visa to come to Canada as they have a high likely hood to stay in Canada even after visa expires. Due to this technicality a TRP is issued on compassionate grounds as the child can not stay without its parents. This is not always the case and I have read cases were people don't receive TRP. In those cases one parent goes to Canada to initiate the process of sponsorship.

As I have already highlighted clearly in my post the document is a TRP and NOT A TRV. Please don't assume that I am daft and don't understand how to read a simple document.

 

[rjessome]

I think you should read my first post carefully and then you will understand the process I have been through rather than making judgements.

A child for a P/R born outside of Canada does not get a normal visa to come to Canada as they have a high likely hood to stay in Canada even after visa expires. Due to this technicality a TRP is issued on compassionate grounds as the child can not stay without its parents. This is not always the case and I have read cases were people don't receive TRP. In those cases one parent goes to Canada to initiate the process of sponsorship.

As I have already highlighted clearly in my post the document is a TRP and NOT A TRV. Please don't assume that I am daft and don't understand how to read a simple document.

I apologize if my words were condecending in anyway. So the baby had a TRP instead of a TRV. I didn't mean it confused you. I was saying it confused the clerk you spoke to. THEY probably didn't realize the difference for dependent children. If you are around these boards long enough you will see that you cannot always rely 100% on the advice received from the call centre. Look, some of us do this stuff for a living or are ex CIC employees. We are just trying to help you here. PMM, matthewc and I all gave you the correct advice. If you want to do an H&C application, go ahead. Good luck.

 

[zainzain]

I have same situation. I am PR Holder and may baby born uotside canada. Then I get TRP visa to bring my baby with me after I proof my relocation back to Canada to the Embassy.
Now and since one month I am seeking for the right proceedure to start with PR application for my baby.
I contact the cic office two times and they gave me two different answer one, First they told me to apply through Vegreville.
Then next time when I exeplain to him about the confusion in the forms they ask me to apply to Mississauga as overseas application.
Honestly in both time seems they are not sure about the answer.
I read what u have posted here and got more confusion.
some members said they refused their application in Vegreville as this office only for spouses
Others said thier application refused in Mississauga as the child in Canada.
So, can u please advise me the right proceedure ...!
which one is faster as we need to visit home after 9 monthes visit our family.
Thank u in advance for yr quick and clear advise

 

[matthewc]

I think you should read my first post carefully and then you will understand the process I have been through rather than making judgements.

A child for a P/R born outside of Canada does not get a normal visa to come to Canada as they have a high likely hood to stay in Canada even after visa expires. Due to this technicality a TRP is issued on compassionate grounds as the child can not stay without its parents. This is not always the case and I have read cases were people don't receive TRP. In those cases one parent goes to Canada to initiate the process of sponsorship.

As I have already highlighted clearly in my post the document is a TRP and NOT A TRV. Please don't assume that I am daft and don't understand how to read a simple document.

Nevertheless, the fact that the baby is technically inadmissible due to the high likelihood of them staying in Canada (and hence issued a TRP to overcome that) does not prevent the sponsorship application from being processed 100% as usual at the overseas embassy, just as if the child were outside Canada. There is nothing about the situation that forces you to apply H&C inland.

Mississauga should certainly not refuse the sponsorship application just because the child is in Canada, as all the criteria for sponsorship should be met. If that has actually happened to anyone (first-hand as opposed to rumours) I'd be interested to hear about it.

zainzain, the overseas route is usually faster for sponsoring a spouse or dependent child.

 

[zainzain]

Thank u Matthewc
I called cic cnter today and they confirm me the same
thank u for yr advise

 

[tstarks]

Nevertheless, the fact that the baby is technically inadmissible due to the high likelihood of them staying in Canada (and hence issued a TRP to overcome that) does not prevent the sponsorship application from being processed 100% as usual at the overseas embassy, just as if the child were outside Canada. There is nothing about the situation that forces you to apply H&C inland.

Mississauga should certainly not refuse the sponsorship application just because the child is in Canada, as all the criteria for sponsorship should be met. If that has actually happened to anyone (first-hand as opposed to rumours) I'd be interested to hear about it.

zainzain, the overseas route is usually faster for sponsoring a spouse or dependent child.

Matthew it has already happened to me. I am still waiting for the feedback from Alberta on the normal sponsorship I initiated to Buffalo via Mississauga but the fact that they already told me that they can not process it via Buffalo and are re-directing to Alberta makes me 99% sure they will send it back. I just want to clarify again that my Daughter is already INSIDE Canada. Hence the objection from CIC that her application can not be processed from the Mississauga / Buffalo route as that is only for Spouse/Children who are OUTSIDE Canada. Since Alberta has NO application for sponsoring a dependant child INSIDE Canada on their own and H&C has to be used (again this is my understanding from talking to people with similar cases and speaking with the CIC call center rep).

This is not something I am pulling out of thin air. I refer you to this long standing thread on another forum for similar cases who have also had to use H&C route:
http://www.settlement.org/discuss/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=229&whichpage=1


Anyway, the point of me updating this thread and keeping everything factual with MY personal experience is to highlight a case for future for people who might go through the same thing. There unfortunately are not enough resources on the internet dealing with my exact case.

I will come back once I hear anything more from CIC on the applications sent in June and now recently the H&C sent earlier this week (Sunday).

 

[tstarks]

I apologize if my words were condecending in anyway. So the baby had a TRP instead of a TRV. I didn't mean it confused you. I was saying it confused the clerk you spoke to. THEY probably didn't realize the difference for dependent children. If you are around these boards long enough you will see that you cannot always rely 100% on the advice received from the call centre. Look, some of us do this stuff for a living or are ex CIC employees. We are just trying to help you here. PMM, matthewc and I all gave you the correct advice. If you want to do an H&C application, go ahead. Good luck.

Just to clarify:
1. I understand that people on this forum are not professionals and trying to help others - I appreciate this sentiment and it is the reason I stayed on to update this thread.
2. My main goal is to get my daughters PRC and I have realized how difficult it is for a case like mine. The difficulty is the lack of defined process by CIC for this particular case. The only information is what is available via people who have gone through similar experiences. By updating this thread and documenting the path I have taken I hope to make this process easier for other people who might face this case in the future.
3. If I came through as harsh it was because people started assuming a lot of things and giving out information which went against the spirit of what I was trying to accomplish with this thread.

You are correct CIC employees are not always correct. In fact the first 2 CIC employees I spoke with in March of this year both also told me the Mississauga route but I got the feeling from them that they did not understand my case fully and did not realize what a TRP actually is. However, the last gentleman I spoke took the time to research the TRP while on the phone with me and ask his superiors/colleagues before he gave me an answer. The information he provided me is also in line with the cases of Martha from these forums and some other people from Settlement.org thread I have posted above.

Is this definitely 100% the way to go? I DON'T KNOW. However, as you mentioned, we are all just trying to help others by sharing our experience and giving advise on the basis of that experience.

So Please I request anyone else reading this thread not to just discount H&C and blindly suggest the sponsorship route via Mississauga/Buf for this particular case as IN MY EXPERIENCE it will be a waste of your time.

 

[matthewc]

Nevertheless, the fact that the baby is technically inadmissible due to the high likelihood of them staying in Canada (and hence issued a TRP to overcome that) does not prevent the sponsorship application from being processed 100% as usual at the overseas embassy, just as if the child were outside Canada. There is nothing about the situation that forces you to apply H&C inland.

After thinking it through, I'm going to modify what I said. The outside application, via CPC-M, could not be 100% normal.

Here's the issue: the child is documented on a TRP and is therefore inadmissible. Because of this the overseas embassy would normally be unable to issue the PR visa. So, it is necessary to request H&C consideration to overcome A11(1) - that's the requirement that applicants not be inadmissible.

There are two ways to do that: (1) Through the inland H&C route, or (2) By specifically requesting H&C consideration along with the overseas sponsorship.

There is no overseas H&C class specifically, but you can file a normal sponsorship application and request H&C assessment along with that, to overcome the inadmissibility of the child who has no intention of leaving Canada.

So, while I stand by the fact the you're not forced to apply inland, you do need to request H&C consideration to overcome the inadmissibility, one way or another, either by applying through inland H&C or by requesting H&C along with the outland sponsorship application through either Buffalo or the baby's country of citizenship.

 

[tstarks]

After thinking it through, I'm going to modify what I said. The outside application, via CPC-M, could not be 100% normal.

Here's the issue: the child is documented on a TRP and is therefore inadmissible. Because of this the overseas embassy would normally be unable to issue the PR visa. So, it is necessary to request H&C consideration to overcome A11(1) - that's the requirement that applicants not be inadmissible.

There are two ways to do that: (1) Through the inland H&C route, or (2) By specifically requesting H&C consideration along with the overseas sponsorship.

There is no overseas H&C class specifically, but you can file a normal sponsorship application and request H&C assessment along with that, to overcome the inadmissibility of the child who has no intention of leaving Canada.

So, while I stand by the fact the you're not forced to apply inland, you do need to request H&C consideration to overcome the inadmissibility, one way or another, either by applying through inland H&C or by requesting H&C along with the outland sponsorship application through either Buffalo or the baby's country of citizenship.

Fair enough, this argument makes perfect sense.

Btw I not aware the H&C can also be used to support an outland application. If that this true, then it would be the way to go as it means processing time of 1 month rather than 3 months for the initial correspondence back from CIC.

 

[matthewc]

Yes, you can request H&C considerations with an outland application. In some circumstances it is the only way to get H&C consideration. However, you do need to be very clear about what H&C exemption you're requesting, and why. See OP4.

 

[zainzain]

Thank u all
I still making step forward and step back with the application of my doughter .
I need the faster path.
So my question is : can I make an options in my letter ,I select Baffalo as a visa office ,but if they will not accept this so the the visa office in my country will be the option ?
Is this will work ?
need yr advise

 

[matthewc]

If the TRP is valid for one year or more, Buffalo should accept the application. However, you'd have to be very, very clear in a covering letter to CPC-M and Buffalo what you're requesting (in terms of H&C consideration) and why the application is valid for processing through Buffalo (admitted on a TRP valid for a year or more).

Although Buffalo is usually faster than Vegreville, it is possible that since there are TWO reasons why the application is non standard (H&C request, and not a US citizen), Buffalo might take as long, or even longer than Vegreville to process it. It's really impossible to know for sure which would be faster. Currently Vegreville is taking 8-9 months for first stage approval on H&C applications. Some cases at buffalo take 8 months or more:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/international/06-fc-children.asp

 

[tstarks]

Just to update everyone on the process.

I received a letter dated January 15th that the application has been transferred to the Vancouver office for further assessment. The application to Alberta was received by them on October the 15th 2010, so it took exactly 3 months for them to reply. According to the Call center representative Vancouver handles cases on behalf of Etobicoke due the back log at Etobicoke.

Also to update, the application which was sent earlier to Buffalo was routed back to Alberta and then back to me. It contained a letter saying that I should apply on H&C grounds to Alberta for my daughters case. Thankfully I had already pre-emptively sent the application to Alberta!

I hope this information is helpful to other parents who are going through similar cases. I will keep you guys updated on the progress and hope this can all get sorted out soon.

 

[hopetogetpr]

Just to update everyone on the process.

I received a letter dated January 15th that the application has been transferred to the Vancouver office for further assessment. The application to Alberta was received by them on October the 15th 2010, so it took exactly 3 months for them to reply. According to the Call center representative Vancouver handles cases on behalf of Etobicoke due the back log at Etobicoke.

Also to update, the application which was sent earlier to Buffalo was routed back to Alberta and then back to me. It contained a letter saying that I should apply on H&C grounds to Alberta for my daughters case. Thankfully I had already pre-emptively sent the application to Alberta!

I hope this information is helpful to other parents who are going through similar cases. I will keep you guys updated on the progress and hope this can all get sorted out soon.

Thanks for updating this thread and good luck with your child's PR application.

My case is a little different. The child in my case is a US citizen (see canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/new-born-in-usa-after-landing-in-canada-t63856.0.html).

My question is that H&C PR application is the right route in your case because your child is on a TRP visa in Canada? Is that right? So, if the child is a US citizen in Canada (as they don't need a visa to visit Canada), or if the child had a TRV instead of TRP, then the ideal way to apply would be to apply as an OUTland applicant (even if the child is in Canada currently)?

I am confused. Please clarify.

 

[Siouxie]

IP5 is for humanitarian applications within Canada: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip05-eng.pdf

It gives detailed information on the procedure.