Attracting the right people?

[Kuks87]

If the first and second draws chose people with scores around the 800's, then it means without the 600(LMIA ),their actual score is <300.

Wouldn't the express entry be doing just the opposite of what it was setup to do?

What kind of profile is <300?

 

[atmtaatmta]

There's a possibility they have not done ECA
ECA (up to 150) + Transferability points for education (up to 50) — that's 200 points.

 

[Goodness]

If the first and second draws chose people with scores around the 800's, then it means without the 600(LMIA ),their actual score is <300.

Wouldn't the express entry be doing just the opposite of what it was setup to do?

What kind of profile is <300?

That's very true. The statistics should give hope to candidate with >300 points. I mean cic should considered that. Thanks

 

[scylla]

Their profiles may not be <300 in reality. They may just not have gone for extra points because they had LMIAs and knew there was a high chance of being selected. For example, many of these people many not have bothered to get ECA (even though they have advanced degrees) or not bothered to have their spouse take IELTs (even though their spouse may speak English and/or French).

 

[ninauh]

This is exactly what I am wondering. They have to do something with that since it is not coherent with what they stated. They are now attracting lower skills people and letting us who are already contributing to the country go.

 

[fl_pie]

While it's true that some of these people simply didn't bother with ECA/etc., I think some of them just really don't have a high score on human capital.

 

[torontosm]

This is exactly what I am wondering. They have to do something with that since it is not coherent with what they stated. They are now attracting lower skills people and letting us who are already contributing to the country go.

They are attracting people who fill a market need in Canada by offering skills or attributes that Canadians can't match. that is the very purpose of the program. It is designed to provide PR to those who fill a market void, regardless of whether you think they are lower skilled or not, over those who may have a better educational/professional background but aren't differentiated from the tens of thousands other Canadians who have the same skills and background.

 

[Kuks87]

There's a possibility they have not done ECA
ECA (up to 150) + Transferability points for education (up to 50) — that's 200 points.

Their profiles may not be <300 in reality. They may just not have gone for extra points because they had LMIAs and knew there was a high chance of being selected. For example, many of these people many not have bothered to get ECA (even though they have advanced degrees) or not bothered to have their spouse take IELTs (even though their spouse may speak English and/or French).

I understand now. But then the system should force everyone to have their ECA done before creating profiles(maybe by entering unique customer numbers from ECA's before submitting). This way they are ensuring that pple with a certain level of education, experience and quality( no offense) are selected.

This is exactly what I am wondering. They have to do something with that since it is not coherent with what they stated. They are now attracting lower skills people and letting us who are already contributing to the country go.

I highly suspect the system is attracting just the opposite of what they want.

 

[dobes]

Yes, I noticed this too. With the exception of some very highly skilled jobs such as those in medicine and IT, it is much easier to get an LMIA for lower skilled, low-paid jobs that Canadians simply don't want.

I think one of two things is happening. Either EE is simply not working the way CIC expected it would, or - and perhaps more likely - the government is saying it wants one thing when it actually wants another. It says it wants highly educated, language-proficient, adaptable newcomers, but is choosing those with lower language and education scores, many with with low-level jobs Canadians don't apply for. Perhaps it actually wants the workforce to take those jobs, but wants the appearance of being in the market to attract real talent to Canada. Or perhaps it simply chose the wrong system to accomplish its goals. I think time will tell. If the system is adjusted, then the goals were real and the system faulty at achieving them. If no changes are made, the government is not telling the truth about what it is looking for in new Canadians.

If Canada really wanted the people it said it wanted, wouldn't it have made sense to give, say, 250 points to those on open work permits for more than a year with permanent job offers, and 400 points to those on post-grad or NAFTA permits with permanent job offers, in addition to the 600 for the LMIAs?

 

[Kuks87]

They are attracting people who fill a market need in Canada by offering skills or attributes that Canadians can't match. that is the very purpose of the program. It is designed to provide PR to those who fill a market void, regardless of whether you think they are lower skilled or not, over those who may have a better educational/professional background but aren't differentiated from the tens of thousands other Canadians who have the same skills and background.

So from what you are saying, does it not mean that pple would rather provide jobs to friends. Hear me out: let's say I have a restaurant (African,Indian,Japanese /speciality etc) and I can make a case that no other canadian can cook my native dishes so I have to employ someone from my homeland to cook. Can u imagine the number of LMIA they can get to friends from their homeland.

Isn't that a flaw?

 

[atmtaatmta]

Atmtaatmta and Scylla I understand now. But then the system should force everyone to have their ECA done before creating profiles(maybe by entering unique customer numbers from ECA's before submitting).

And why is that?
You see, there is a meaning in 600 points for LMIA or PN. It means, that either canadian economy or a particular province needs such a worker. It doesn't really matter whether he is old or he has no education. He has already been found worthy.
And the sole purpose of EE immigration programs is not bringing educated and intelligent people into Canada, but bringing people, who would contribute to economy. Education and intelligence does matter, but not that much, thus PhD is worth 150 points and LMIA is worth 600.

 

[Kuks87]

Yes, I noticed this too. With the exception of some very highly skilled jobs such as those in medicine and IT, it is much easier to get an LMIA for lower skilled, low-paid jobs that Canadians simply don't want.

I think one of two things is happening. Either EE is simply not working the way CIC expected it would, or - and perhaps more likely - the government is saying it wants one thing when it actually wants another. It says it wants highly educated, language-proficient, adaptable newcomers, but is choosing those with lower language and education scores, many with with low-level jobs Canadians don't apply for. Perhaps it actually wants the workforce to take those jobs, but wants the appearance of being in the market to attract real talent to Canada. Or perhaps it simply chose the wrong system to accomplish its goals. I think time will tell. If the system is adjusted, then the goals were real and the system faulty at achieving them. If no changes are made, the government is not telling the truth about what it is looking for in new Canadians.


If Canada really wanted the people it said it wanted, wouldn't it have made sense to give, say, 250 points to those on open work permits for more than a year with permanent job offers, and 400 points to those on post-grad or NAFTA permits with permanent job offers, in addition to the 600 for the LMIAs?

I totally agree.

 

[Kuks87]

And why is that?
You see, there is a meaning in 600 points for LMIA or PN. It means, that either canadian economy or a particular province needs such a worker. It doesn't really matter whether he is old or he has no education. He has already been found worthy.
And the sole purpose of EE immigration programs is not bringing educated and intelligent people into Canada, but bringing people, who would contribute to economy. Education and intelligence does matter, but not that much, thus PhD is worth 150 points and LMIA is worth 600.

I get that points that there are points awarded for LMIA and pnp. Of course they would want pple who already have jobs. But how does an old uneducated person(or low education) with a low skilled job, beat the h*ll out of a young skilled person with experience and a job but no LMIA?

But not to sweat it tho, they have the right to deny and accept pples application after ITA I guess.

 

[dobes]

And why is that?
You see, there is a meaning in 600 points for LMIA or PN. It means, that either canadian economy or a particular province needs such a worker. It doesn't really matter whether he is old or he has no education. He has already been found worthy.
And the sole purpose of EE immigration programs is not bringing educated and intelligent people into Canada, but bringing people, who would contribute to economy. Education and intelligence does matter, but not that much, thus PhD is worth 150 points and LMIA is worth 600.

1) But that isn't how the government is characterizing what it is doing. If it had said, "We want people from across the world to take those difficult, messy, back-breaking, low-paying jobs with long hours that Canadians won't take", then I would have said, "OK, Canada doesn't want me here." Instead, it said it wanted those with education, language skills, and experience working in Canada - and then went and gave the former population an advantage over the latter.

2) Who "contributes to the economy" is a matter of opinion. Better-educated people with better language skills are also likely to earn more - thus paying much more in taxes - and to find new jobs in a shifting economy - thus being less likely to have to rely on government support during their careers. They are also more likely to start their own businesses, offering jobs to others as a result. I would say that's contributing to the economy!

 

[Kuks87]

1) But that isn't how the government is characterizing what it is doing. If it had said, "We want people from across the world to take those difficult, messy, back-breaking, low-paying jobs with long hours that Canadians won't take", then I would have said, "OK, Canada doesn't want me here." Instead, it said it wanted those with education, language skills, and experience working in Canada - and then went and gave the former population an advantage over the latter.

2) Who "contributes to the economy" is a matter of opinion. Better-educated people with better language skills are also likely to earn more - thus paying much more in taxes - and to find new jobs in a shifting economy - thus being less likely to have to rely on government support during their careers. They are also more likely to start their own businesses, offering jobs to others as a result. I would say that's contributing to the economy!