Asked for Police Certificate for a Country ,I did not spend 183 days in?

[MEB]

Hi all,

Just received an ADR for my citizenship application for a police certificate from a GCC country I was working as an expat in, before moving to Canada.

I was working in this GCC country from 1st of April 2014 till 3rd of July 2019 .

I got approved for Canadian PR in 2017 and hence we -as a family- proceeded with soft landing in August 2018.

I returned to resume my expat role in the GCC country till 3rd of July 2019 ,after which moved to Canada permanently in August 2019.

By the time we were able to complete all required documents & forms to submit the Citizenship application it was the 6th of January 2023 (we submitted our combined applications on the 7th of January 2023).

Upon reaching section 10 b in Citizenship application, we answered the following question as “NO”

“In the past 4 years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (Since the age of 18)? ”

We provided such answer, as the date 4 years before our application submission date was (7th of January 2019), hence the associated period until we left such country as expats (3rd of July 2019) was less than 183 days(Around 176 days).

Once we selected “No”, the associated table to fill- if you will provide Police Certificate or not and related explanation- is dimmed and cannot by typed in.

Furthermore, we never left Canada since our perm. move for more than 6 weeks, and all these visits were to our country of citizenship only (twice)

Finally, my wife is having exact timelines ,and was not asked for a Police certificate (Me, my wife and my 2 kids filed our application together) !

However, I solely received an ADR from IRCC for Police certificate from the GCC country or a letter of explanation on why I cannot submit it .So why are they requesting such certificate and only from me ,if my wife have an identical timeline and we filled our application together+ we did not spend 183 successive days in any country since our COPR date!

Appreciate your urgent feedback guys!

 

[MEB]

Seeking out @dpenabill expertise as well, appreciate your kind and valuable support!

 

[scylla]

Hi all,

Just received an ADR for my citizenship application for a police certificate from a GCC country I was an expat in.

I was working in this GCC country from 1st of April 2014 till 3rd of July 2019 .

I got approved for Canadian PR in 2017 and hence we -as a family- proceeded with soft landing in August 2018.

I returned to resume my expat role in the GCC country till 3rd of July 2019 ,after which we visited our home country for 3 weeks and moved to Canada permanently in August 2019.

By the time we were able to complete all required documents & forms to submit the Citizenship application it was the 6th of January 2023 (we submitted our combined applications on the 7th of January 2023).

Upon reaching section 10 b in Citizenship application, we answered the following question as “NO”

“In the past 4 years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (Since the age of 18)? ”

We provided such answer, as the date 4 years before our application submission date was (7th of January 2019), hence the associated period until we left such country as expats (3rd of July 2019) was less than 183 days(Around 175-176 days).

Once we selected “No”, the associated table to fill- if you will provide Police Certificate or not and related explanation- is dimmed and cannot by typed in.

Furthermore, we never left Canada since our perm. move for more than 6 weeks, and all these visits were to our country of citizenship only (twice)

Finally,my wife is having exact timelines ,and was not asked for a Police certificate (Me, my wife and my 2 kids filed our application together) !


However, I solely received an ADR from IRCC for Police certificate or a letter of explanation why I cannot submit it .So why are they requesting such certificate and only from me ,if my wife have an identical timeline and we filled our application together!


Appreciate your urgent feedback guys!

They can request a PCC if they want to even if you are under the 183 days. They will sometimes request it for people who are close to 183 days. You should just get the PCC and submit it.

 

[MEB]

Thanks @scylla for your valuable feedback!

But isn't that very unfair and inconvenient ?Not because they asked for the certificate-absolutely not- ,but because they forced me to mark section 10b as "NO"-as I did not spend 183 days - which took out any chance of explaining or listing down even any associated information.

Furthermore, I have formal correspondence from the associated embassy that this process would take 4 months! Not only this...We are approaching Holy month of "RAMADAN" and right after that" EID El Fitr"......all GCC countries work half the # of hours during this month + take around 10-12 days Public holiday after it! So entire process may take close to 6 months just to get the certificate and they are giving me 60 days only !
Again although I did not spend 183 days even in that country(since mentioned date) and had to honestly reply to the question in the application form?

 

[scylla]

Thanks @scylla for your valuable feedback!

But isn't that very unfair and inconvenient ?Not because they asked for the certificate-absolutely not- ,but because they forced me to mark section 10b as "NO"-as I did not spend 183 days - which took out any chance of explaining or listing down even any associated information.

Furthermore, I have formal correspondence from the associated embassy that this process would take 4 months! Not only this...We are approaching Holy month of "RAMADAN" and right after that" EID El Fitr"......all GCC countries work half the # of hours during this month + take around 10-12 days Public holiday after it! So entire process may take close to 6 months just to get the certificate and they are giving me 60 days only !
Again although I did not spend 183 days even in that country(since mentioned date) and had to honestly reply to the question in the application form?

There's no issue with the response you provided in your application form. IRCC can chose to request a PCC regardless of whether someone has the 183 days or not. You can certainly submit a webform and ask IRCC if they will drop this requirement. However my strong recommendation is that you also start the process to obtain the PCC as well. It will take a while for IRCC to respond to the webform and they may still require you to obtain the PCC anyway. Up to you what you do of course.

 

[MEB]

There's no issue with the response you provided in your application form. IRCC can chose to request a PCC regardless of whether someone has the 183 days or not. You can certainly submit a webform and ask IRCC if they will drop this requirement. However my strong recommendation is that you also start the process to obtain the PCC as well. It will take a while for IRCC to respond to the webform and they may still require you to obtain the PCC anyway. Up to you what you do of course.

@scylla ,thanks again for your feedback!
I know I did my full due diligence on this topic in my application and I know it is up to me to provide it or not...but providing it after wasting 2 months(till I received the AOR) although the certificate is 100% not applicable to me as per the info. they provided in the form then wasting another 6 months just to get it(not to mention associated cost) ,is just very unfair/unrealistic .Specially that in the body of the ADR they had this phrasing:

"You must provide a police certificate for each country or territory where you have been present for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18). If you cannot get a police certificate, please explain why. A police certificate or explanation for no certificate is required

· You didn’t upload a police certificate (wrong or blank document uploaded)."

In your valuable opinion-just an honest opinion-...would providing LOR containing the below work:
A)Why I did not submit the certificate due to the 183 days rule (mentioning exact associated dates as evidence )
B)The correspondence from the embassy that this may take 4 months(they are providing me 60 days)
C)My immigration related Police certificate ,issued from same country covering 75% of my stay there as an expat

Bregards
MEB

 

[tanmaisneha]

They are asking for PCC because you became a PR in August of 2018 but went back to return only in August 2019. That is more than 183 days of you being out of Canada after being a PR. Moreover, IRCC can ask PCC anytime as it is their discretion.

 

[scylla]

@scylla ,thanks again for your feedback!
I know I did my full due diligence on this topic in my application and I know it is up to me to provide it or not...but providing it after wasting 2 months(till I received the AOR) although the certificate is 100% not applicable to me as per the info. they provided in the form then wasting another 6 months just to get it(not to mention associated cost) ,is just very unfair/unrealistic .Specially that in the body of the ADR they had this phrasing:

"You must provide a police certificate for each country or territory where you have been present for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18). If you cannot get a police certificate, please explain why. A police certificate or explanation for no certificate is required

· You didn’t upload a police certificate (wrong or blank document uploaded)."

In your valuable opinion-just an honest opinion-...would providing LOR containing the below work:
A)Why I did not submit the certificate due to the 183 days rule (mentioning exact associated dates as evidence )
B)The correspondence from the embassy that this may take 4 months(they are providing me 60 days)
C)My immigration related Police certificate ,issued from same country covering 75% of my stay there as an expat

Bregards
MEB

My honest opinion is to get the PCC. That's what I would do.

 

[tanmaisneha]

In address for last 5 years, did you provide the address of the other country? if you did, you should have selected Yes for 10 (b), and then listed the countries and select Yes/No for I will provide a police certificate and write in explanation. The Note part in 10(b) will help you.

Request the PCC for your wife as well beforehand just in case if they ask in few days.

 

[MEB]

They are asking for PCC because you became a PR in August of 2018 but went back to return only in August 2019. That is more than 183 days of you being out of Canada after being a PR. Moreover, IRCC can ask PCC anytime as it is their discretion.

Hi @tanmaisneha
Thanks for your feedback!

1)Regarding the second part of your reply , it is true they can do whatever they want ...but in my opinion ,it is 100 % unfair(not because of the PCC request at all) ,but given how they constructed their application questionnaire and that is what I was already discussing with Scylla...and it is another topic.

2)Regarding the 183 days ...Incorrect comment from your side, but why ?

As per section 10b in the application:

“In the past 4 years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (Since the age of 18)? ”
Answer in "No" , as the date -4 years before our application submission date- was (7th of January 2019). Hence, the associated period until we left the country as expats (3rd of July 2019) was less than 183 days. So answer is " No " ,Period! Even if its 182.5 we are forced to answer "No"...

You can ask ...ok but what about explaining yourselves in the form for this PCC thing? We cannot ...why ?
Once we selected “No”, the associated table to fill- in which you state if you will provide Police Certificate or not with related explanation- is dimmed and we could not type in it or provide any information or explanation!

Kindly note that my wife was not asked for PCC although she had an identical time line ,but received the AOR ,which solidify the fact that it is not related to the 183 days thing! We received the 4 AOR(myself +wife+2 Kids)+ only and ADR for me , within 5 mins time today..as all are submitted in one file!

 

[DSEuro78]

As above, order the PCC (and one for your wife as well). IRCC want a copy of the PCC and as others have said, they can request it regardless of whether you were there for 183 days or less.

 

[tanmaisneha]

Hi @tanmaisneha
Thanks for your feedback!

1)Regarding the second part of your reply , it is true they can do whatever they want ...but in my opinion ,it is 100 % unfair(not because of the PCC request at all) ,but given how they constructed their application questionnaire and that is what I was already discussing with Scylla...and it is another topic.

2)Regarding the 183 days ...Incorrect comment from your side, but why ?

As per section 10b in the application:

“In the past 4 years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (Since the age of 18)? ”
Answer in "No" , as the date -4 years before our application submission date- was (7th of January 2019). Hence, the associated period until we left the country as expats (3rd of July 2019) was less than 183 days. So answer is " No " ,Period! Even if its 182.5 we are forced to answer "No"...

You can ask ...ok but what about explaining yourselves in the form for this PCC thing? We cannot ...why ?
Once we selected “No”, the associated table to fill- in which you state if you will provide Police Certificate or not with related explanation- is dimmed and we could not type in it or provide any information or explanation!

Kindly note that my wife was not asked for PCC although she had an identical time line ,but received the AOR ,which solidify the fact that it is not related to the 183 days thing! We received the 4 AOR(myself +wife+2 Kids)+ only and ADR for me , within 5 mins time today..as all are submitted in one file!

Your citizenship eligibility starts from 2018 August, so you need to keep that in mind. the part where you need to enter address for last 5 years, shows you were living outside Canada before your 7th January 2019. As per this information you would need a PCC.

 

[MEB]

Your citizenship eligibility starts from 2018 August, so you need to keep that in mind. the part where you need to enter address for last 5 years, shows you were living outside Canada before your 7th January 2019. As per this information you would need a PCC.

They are two different things ....
-The 5 years eligibility is related to you needing to mention exact addresses, activities/work and travels you made within such period.

-For PCC...it is clearly stated in section 10b [Form CIT0002]...its 183 days within the last 4 years prior to the date of submitting the application

Here is the associated information right from the guide also explaining different sections of the form:
*****************************
You need to provide a police certificate from each country, other than Canada, if you were there:
-in the past 4 years
-for 183 days or more in a row
-since the age of 18

Indicate in the chart the name of each country and provide a police certificate.

You don’t need to provide a police certificate if you :
-were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and this time falls within the past 4 years
-If you can’t get a police certificate, tell us why in the explanation box.
-To be valid, the police certificate must be either issued after the last time you were in that country, or
no more than 6 months before the date you sign your citizenship application
*****************************

 

[MEB]

Here is also a snapshot for exact associated phrasing of section 10 b on the form.

Section 10 b-PCC requirement

 

[scylla]

They are two different things ....
-The 5 years eligibility is related to you needing to mention exact addresses, activities/work and travels you made within such period.

-For PCC...it is clearly stated in section 10b [Form CIT0002]...its 183 days within the last 4 years prior to the date of submitting the application

Here is the associated information right from the guide also explaining different sections of the form:
*****************************
You need to provide a police certificate from each country, other than Canada, if you were there:
-in the past 4 years
-for 183 days or more in a row
-since the age of 18

Indicate in the chart the name of each country and provide a police certificate.

You don’t need to provide a police certificate if you :
-were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and this time falls within the past 4 years
-If you can’t get a police certificate, tell us why in the explanation box.
-To be valid, the police certificate must be either issued after the last time you were in that country, or
no more than 6 months before the date you sign your citizenship application
*****************************

Here's what this boils down to:

- You are right about the four years.
- Regardless of the four years, IRCC can still request a PCC per the guide.
- You can either get the PCC or try to argue this with IRCC and get them to drop the requirement.
- Recommendation is to get the PCC.
- Based on your posts, it feels like you would prefer to go down the path of trying to get IRCC to drop this request. Assuming that's correct, submit the response to IRCC as soon as you can with your ask to drop this requirement and see if they consdier it.