Are work experience years also locked: PMM i need ur advice

[newcomer]

i want to know r work experience years also locked at the time of filing an application as e.g if one applies with an experience of 3 years at the time of applying n suppose his application takes 3years b4 request of documents at tht time his experiences becomes of 6 years ll he be eligible of getting all 21 points for experience or he ll get points for only 3 years experience.same as the principal applicant or his spouse improves his/her educational qualifications after filing the application but b4 request of docs , ll they be eligible for higher points .expert opinions ll be highly appreciated

 

[PMM]

Hi

i want to know r work experience years also locked at the time of filing an application as e.g if one applies with an experience of 3 years at the time of applying n suppose his application takes 3years b4 request of documents at tht time his experiences becomes of 6 years ll he be eligible of getting all 21 points for experience or he ll get points for only 3 years experience.same as the principal applicant or his spouse improves his/her educational qualifications after filing the application but b4 request of docs , ll they be eligible for higher points .expert opinions ll be highly appreciated

Points for experience are locked at the time of application as well as adaptability points. If you don't qualify on initial assessment, CHC is not going to check back with you to see if you have gotten more points.

PMM

 

[Kash]

Hi everybody,

Well, honestly guys. I have so much to prove that neither work experience nor education gets locked rather it get reassessed before visa officer decides to process your application. If you have happened to see an AOR, it clearly states that the decision will be made on base of the documents submitted the time when visa officer asks for them. If your application shows 67 points at the time of filing the case at CIC, you can definitely expect more points as you improve your education and work credentials. However, if you have already 4 years work experience, you won't get any extra marks for it. 4 Years of work experience gets one the full points of work.

Hopefully it helps and denounces all the myth created by so called professionals.

Cheers!

 

[newcomer]

Thanks Kash

 

[mikelingen]

Kash,

I tend to think the way PMM is. Though you have a valid point. More often than not the visa officer could asses you right from your AOR to see if you get those 67 points. At the time I guess, if you don't make the cut from your AOR you might just get rejected. But I would like to think that all those people applying for a PR visa have already assessed their chances and do get those 67 points first hand from their AOR without having to provide additional educational/work-employment updates.

This is my personal opinion. And surely food for thought.

Mike

 

[Ra00]

Dear ALL

Hopefully you guys have some updated info regarding this topic

Actually I applied in fast track and at that time my points were above 67 including my maternal uncle points residing in canada. But when CIC asked me to submit full application and I contacted my uncle for required docs he refused to provide me those due to some unforseen reason.
But now i have more than 4+ years experience and i have just submitted my docs to CHC last week. But at the time of initial application to NS, my experience was 3.9 year and now when to submit full application my experience is 4 year

My question is that will they consider my experience of 4+ year or 3.9 year

 

[BobbyB]

Kash,

I tend to think the way PMM is. Though you have a valid point. More often than not the visa officer could asses you right from your AOR to see if you get those 67 points. At the time I guess, if you don't make the cut from your AOR you might just get rejected. But I would like to think that all those people applying for a PR visa have already assessed their chances and do get those 67 points first hand from their AOR without having to provide additional educational/work-employment updates.

This is my personal opinion. And surely food for thought.

Mike

Now, whether this is applicable to people who have applied according to the new rules is questionable. As those who applied under the new rules have to send in all documents at the initial stage of application, I think.
However, I am pretty sure that, for those who applied with the so called simplified process, this is applicable, as we were asked to just fill in the form and send no, no document at all, until they request for it. (The so- called documents update letter)

Work Experience will continue to increase after the submission of the application up to
the time of assessment of the application by Canadian Immigration and the points will
be increased accordingly.

And here is the proof from OP6e.PDF, page 29. Read right through to the bottom

10.12. Experience

Pursuant to R80, officers will assess and award up to 21 units of assessment for paid work
experience, as follows:

Number of Less than 1 At least 1 At least 2 At least 3 4 or more
years

Points 0 15 17 19 21

To be eligible for points, the applicant's work experience must:

• have occurred during the 10 years immediately preceding the date of application submission;

• be in occupations listed in the National Occupational Classification (NOC) under Skill Type 0
or Skill Level A and B;

• not be in an occupation that has been designated by the Minister as a restricted occupation.
At the time of printing, there were no occupations designated as restricted. However, for the
most up-to-date listing, officers should refer to the Department's Web site at
ww.cic.gc.ca/skilled.

A) One-year continuous full-time experience: this means one year in one skilled occupation to
demonstrate an ability to establish oneself economically;

or

(B) The equivalent in continuous part-time employment in one or more occupations.

In (B), this continuous part-time employment could be made up of two part-time jobs held
simultaneously or of one part-time job held over the equivalent of one year of full-time
employment.

Once the qualifying year has been established, further experience in one or more occupations
can be calculated by adding up the number of months spent in full-time and/or part-time work in
one or more of the NOC categories.

Officers must:

• take into account both paid full-time work and paid part-time work (equalizing part-time work
to full-time years) (R80(1));

• consider only those occupations which the applicant has specified and for which the applicant
has provided the four-digit NOC code on their application form (R80(6));

Note: While the Regulations clearly place responsibility on applicants to undertake research of the NOC
and provide the NOC coding for the occupations in which they claim qualifying experience, officers
are expected to exercise discretion where applicants may have made minor errors or omissions in
correlating work experience and NOC coding.

• not take into account whether the applicant meets the “Employment requirements”
description set forth in the NOC for the occupation(s) listed;

• award points only if the applicant has performed the actions described in the lead statement
of the particular NOC description and has performed at least a substantial number of the
duties described in the “Main Duties” summary – including all the essential duties (R80(3));

Note: Neither the NOC nor the Regulations distinguish between “essential” and “non-essential” duties or
provide guidance as to what constitutes a “substantial number”. This is left as a matter for
assessment on a case-by-case basis. If officers have concerns about whether or not the applicant has
carried out “a substantial number of the main duties...including all of the essential duties,” they should
give the applicant an opportunity to respond to these concerns.

• take into account any years of experience that occur between application and assessment,
and for which the applicant has submitted the necessary documentation (R77).

 

[singh123]

Dear Friends

This thread is the most interesting one I have come across. One of the reasons why everyone needs help/clarification on immigration issues is the lack of transparency on part of CIC. There are only a handful of FAQ on their website. It is really appreciated how people come to each other's help with what ever information they have, some even doing in-depth research. By the time one get over with this endless wait for immigration one will be an "expert" in Canadian immigration matters in a way...... lol. So hats off to you all.... carry on the good work.

I too have a relevant question regarding experience issue and would like anyone to get back with what ever information views/obseration they have. I have had three employers in the last 10yrs eg. A,B and C. At the time of submitting my application the 1 year experience requirement was met with employment A although I was in employment B (six months) and at the time of updating documents in employment C. I have three yrs experience in employment B. I did not update documents form employer A as I had a dispute with him. I have sufficient points from employment B and did not require points form employment A (when updating documents). My question is will CIC still contact employer A. My fear is that he may not give a positive feedback. Will this situation jeopardise my case or will they ignore my employer A (no documents updated).

Your help is much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance for your co-operation.
Regards

 

[Ra00]

Re: Are work experience years also locked

There is another question.
suppose i have total 8.9 years of experience(fully paid) in which 3.9 year experience is in NOC-0213(listed in 38 occupation list) and 5 year experience is in NOC-2147(not listed in 38 occupation list).This is also important to note that NOC- 2147 is the basic level of NOC0213.

will the IO totally ignore that 5 year of experience at the time of awarding points.....

 

[rupeshhari]

• take into account any years of experience that occur between application and assessment,
and for which the applicant has submitted the necessary documentation (R77).

So how does it work in the old simplified process. Say i applied 3 years ago and i have 65 points, will CIC evaluate me for points or ask me to send in my documents.

If they evaluate me for points, i fail because my documents are not in. It clearly says "for which the applicant has submtted the necessary documentation" and the candidate would not have submitted any documents at this point.

If they allow you to submit despite having less than 67, then the candidate could go through.

Bobbyb - do you know what happens at initial evaluation during the old process. Will they ask the applicant to submit documents even if the applicant has less than 67 points?

 

[Ra00]

ok i agree PMM and rupershari that at the time of submission of application you must meet the minimum critera i-e 67 point and at least one year of full time paid work etc

But my question is at the time of assessment will the IO give extra marks by considering our updated experience / education/ adaptability factor.

as i have read in many thread that IO award 20 points against MBA ( 16 year of education).but if i will be awarded 2 marks less in eduation, i couldnt meet the minimum criteria.thats why i was asking about consideration of experience.

Hope you got my point

 

[BobbyB]

• take into account any years of experience that occur between application and assessment,
and for which the applicant has submitted the necessary documentation (R77).

So how does it work in the old simplified process. Say i applied 3 years ago and i have 65 points, will CIC evaluate me for points or ask me to send in my documents.
If you applied 3 years ago and "thought" you had 67 points but actually had 65 points, and your case doesn't get assessed say for another 2 years. Now your experience will definitely have increased for another 2 years, right? Now, if you are then requested to put in your full application, you will have to submit all the documents including those that will show this +2 years experience.


If they evaluate me for points, i fail because my documents are not in. It clearly says "for which the applicant has submtted the necessary documentation" and the candidate would not have submitted any documents at this point.

If they allow you to submit despite having less than 67, then the candidate could go through.
The old simplified application, was a way of getting yourself in the "Queue". And, everything that is positive towards your case, provided you can prove it, will be advantageous towards your case.

This is what I think happens. A candidate applies by filling in the form, giving his personal Data, his Education + no of years he has studied, and then he ticks the boxes for Language proficiency (Tell me how many people would have ticked "4 -minimum" for their first official Language -Almost nobody. I am pretty sure that everyone must have filled in 4-HIGH's for their first official language =16 points at the initial stage anyway). Then you fill in your experience and NOC's detail, your spouse's detail ( if you have one), details of your Relatives in Canada (if you have any). I guess with all that information the IO responsible for your case, is able to assess that you meet the minimum points. Note that the minimum "Experience and NOC" criteria has to be met @ any point in time - 1 Year + NOC (A,B,O). After this he gives you a file no and sends you aletter of AOR, and you are now put in the long waiting list-("QUEUE"). The "Game" actually starts when you are then asked for the so-called "Documents update letter"> It is at this stage that you have to prove everything you initially ticked plus submit all the extra experience, qualifications, etc etc.
To me personally, it just doesn't make sense that, the extra accumulated years will not be counted. If they don't count them, then why put in that clause anyway. Again, why do they accept a higher Qualification that was achieved later on (until assessment).i.e if, when you applied, you had a Bachelors degree and then while in the "Queue" you achieve a "Masters Degree" (Plus you have the required no of Years). Would they not accept and give you the points for a Masters Degree?


To be honest, if you read the OP6e.pdf, the IO responsible for your case, may even accept your case, if he thinks you will be able to establish yourself successfully even if you do not meet the required points. The so called positive substitution.
Here read this:

If an officer decides to use Then the officer will ...
substituted evaluation when ...

the applicant did meet the pass • communicate their concerns to the applicant and provide
mark (i.e., negative substituted sufficient opportunity to the applicant to respond to these
evaluation) concerns, through correspondence or an interview;

• obtain written concurrence from a designated officer.

[size=10pt]the applicant did not meet the • obtain written concurrence from a designated officer.
pass mark (i.e., positive
substituted evaluation)
[/size]

It is evident from this, that the IO decides each case on it's own merits.

Bobbyb - do you know what happens at initial evaluation during the old process. Will they ask the applicant to submit documents even if the applicant has less than 67 points?
I think this question has been answered above as well.


Again, this is when you are requested for documents update. In my case that is what I am waiting for. So, its been almost 2 years. And I am still working in the same profession and NOC. I personally don't need the extra no of years but for some one who had only 2 years of experience when he applied, if he has another 2 years and his case has not been assessed, so will you say forget about the additional 2years (You don't have that experience). If you can prove these 2 extra years of experience with documents, they will consider.That is what I understand about those Last lines.

 

[zaidkhalid]

Dear Bob

I have one question which is raised by one of my friends (not on this forum). He applied under the old system 3 years ago to Syria office and until now he did not receive any letter from regarding document update,... etc. The question he told after he applied his brother obtain the the PR of Canada so when he will be asked for the update can he claims additional points from adabtabiliy, or not.?

cheers,
Zaid

 

[Ra00]

Dear Bobby

ur answer make sense but please read another thread started by me on another forum.

http://www.trackitt.com/canada-discussion-forums/federal-skilled-workers/355346693/at-what-date-experience-will-be-counted

i am positive as the letter i recieved from NS after initial application clearly stats that " the final decision will be made according to your documentation"

 

[BobbyB]

Dear Bob

I have one question which is raised by one of my friends (not on this forum). He applied under the old system 3 years ago to Syria office and until now he did not receive any letter from regarding document update,... etc. The question he told after he applied his brother obtain the the PR of Canada so when he will be asked for the update can he claims additional points from adabtabiliy, or not.?

cheers,
Zaid

Why not? I see no reason why he should not be able to claim it. When he is requested for documents update, he should fill it in and write a cover letter to inform them. That's what I will do anyway.